lucklucky Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-early-pandemic-paradox-deaths-months.html Last 5 years had more deaths in UK than this year. In relation to first 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 The EU is discussing (vote to be held next week) on restricting access to the EU of Americans and people from some other countries due to their dismal failure of controlling the covid 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 And once reality is stranger than fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalkre Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 The EU is discussing (vote to be held next week) on restricting access to the EU of Americans and people from some other countries due to their dismal failure of controlling the covid 19. Not really surprising. Stargrunt6 had a link to a good twitter discussion on how to handle the virus. One of the things it mentioned that much of the EU has done and that US has failed completely at is testing-tracing-isolating. I'm not aware of any state in the US even attempting to do so. As such as a country we've basically adopted a Sweden-lite strategy where we're not doing anything to stop it and are content instead with often half-hearted efforts at slowing its spread. Countries which largely have it under control... why would they let anyone from the US in? The reality is international travel as we've known it for decades is largely gone til this pandemic is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 The EU is discussing (vote to be held next week) on restricting access to the EU of Americans and people from some other countries due to their dismal failure of controlling the covid 19.As if us "Europeans" controlled it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) And once reality is stranger than fiction. Look at the curve of any other country in Europe and then look at the US. Their concern is well founded. It is more instructive to do it by country, but here's the short-short version: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/06/22/united-states-europe-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-comparison-sanjay-gupta-ldn-vpx.cnn Edited June 24, 2020 by Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingCanOpener Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) The EU is discussing (vote to be held next week) on restricting access to the EU of Americans and people from some other countries due to their dismal failure of controlling the covid 19. Not really surprising. Stargrunt6 had a link to a good twitter discussion on how to handle the virus. One of the things it mentioned that much of the EU has done and that US has failed completely at is testing-tracing-isolating. I'm not aware of any state in the US even attempting to do so. As such as a country we've basically adopted a Sweden-lite strategy where we're not doing anything to stop it and are content instead with often half-hearted efforts at slowing its spread. Countries which largely have it under control... why would they let anyone from the US in? The reality is international travel as we've known it for decades is largely gone til this pandemic is over. Louisiana at one time was hiring people for contact tracing, but I haven't heard anything since. My wife was indirectly exposed to someone who tested positive last week. We both got tested (Negative--along with everyone else in contact with the person), but had to wait 2.5 hours on a Saturday in a parking lot at a rural Urgent Care clinic because other clinics here in town had 6-7 hour waits to even be seen, and were walk-in only. The doctor who examined us said 95% of their current caseload is people coming to get tested. Though most of the tests are coming back negative, there's been a rise in positive tests--especially in younger people. Also, they're going through masks much faster than normal because so many people are coming to the clinic without masks, despite having on the door that masks are required to enter. Edited June 24, 2020 by FlyingCanOpener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrunt6 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 The EU is discussing (vote to be held next week) on restricting access to the EU of Americans and people from some other countries due to their dismal failure of controlling the covid 19. Not really surprising. Stargrunt6 had a link to a good twitter discussion on how to handle the virus. One of the things it mentioned that much of the EU has done and that US has failed completely at is testing-tracing-isolating. I'm not aware of any state in the US even attempting to do so. As such as a country we've basically adopted a Sweden-lite strategy where we're not doing anything to stop it and are content instead with often half-hearted efforts at slowing its spread. Countries which largely have it under control... why would they let anyone from the US in? The reality is international travel as we've known it for decades is largely gone til this pandemic is over. Louisiana at one time was hiring people for contact tracing, but I haven't heard anything since. My wife was indirectly exposed to someone who tested positive last week. We both got tested (Negative--along with everyone else in contact with the person), but had to wait 2.5 hours on a Saturday in a parking lot at a rural Urgent Care clinic because other clinics here in town had 6-7 hour waits to even be seen, and were walk-in only. The doctor who examined us said 95% of their current caseload is people coming to get tested. Though most of the tests are coming back negative, there's been a rise in positive tests--especially in younger people. Also, they're going through masks much faster than normal because so many people are coming to the clinic without masks, despite having on the door that masks are required to enter.Having come back from Atlanta, our state is lousy as far as compliance. I'm getting my driver's license out im the boonies instead of going to town. Playing the odds by being around fewer people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 And mine and the neighboring county are back in lockdown and it's even more absurd than the first time. We have 1550ish infected -almost all working in a slaughterhouse- but only 21(1.3%) in hospital, six(0.26%) of them in the ICU and two on ventilators. Now shutting down two counties because of a disease that has so very few serious consequences seems excessive but that's not the worst of it. There is a rather common bovine disease that is caused by ... wait for it ... a Corona virus. Not Covid 19 of course but some other Corona that is harmless to humans and cows too because there is a vaccine. Some in the medical community might know what's coming. The Covid 19 test we do can't tell the difference between Corona and Cowrona. Do you have any sources for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) The EU is discussing (vote to be held next week) on restricting access to the EU of Americans and people from some other countries due to their dismal failure of controlling the covid 19. Not really surprising. Stargrunt6 had a link to a good twitter discussion on how to handle the virus. One of the things it mentioned that much of the EU has done and that US has failed completely at is testing-tracing-isolating. I'm not aware of any state in the US even attempting to do so. As such as a country we've basically adopted a Sweden-lite strategy where we're not doing anything to stop it and are content instead with often half-hearted efforts at slowing its spread. Countries which largely have it under control... why would they let anyone from the US in? The reality is international travel as we've known it for decades is largely gone til this pandemic is over. It doesn't help that "conservative" media and "influencers" in the US are actively discouraging the very measures that help in bringing this thing under control, like mask wearing and contact tracing, because these are supposedly un-American or communist or whatever. Here's the entire US COVID-19 malaise in one handy video: https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1273018665391099904 Oh, and an article by the Jeff-approved, "mainstream conservative" Federalist, explaining how mandatory masks are all about social control and hating your freedoms: https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/27/mandatory-masks-arent-about-safety-theyre-about-social-control/ When you have half of a country constantly gobbling up this bullshit and acting accordingly, the country-wide Dunning-Kruger experiment that the US has signed up for is just going to continue. Edited June 24, 2020 by Der Zeitgeist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I dont think they are going to halt Covid in the US this side of 200000 dead. Perhaps not even quarter of a million. Its become too much of a political football now to do anything about it, and its herd immunity all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 I dont think they are going to halt Covid in the US this side of 200000 dead. Perhaps not even quarter of a million. Its become too much of a political football now to do anything about it, and its herd immunity all round. Well, whatever. I'm tired of arguing about it and even discussing it. Every country has to make their own choices how to handle it, and like you said a few weeks ago to someone here, "it's your country". The information is out there and by now it is good enough to both inform individual choices on taking risks and also political choices about measures to control the spread of the virus. If a country chooses not to use it, it's on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Trumpists are own goaling the US economy after complaining about lock downs doing the very same thing. We have enough information now to show that the primary mode of transmission is water droplets enclosed spaces with no masks. But its fake news, apparently. The US is already having to roll back its reopenings that were fairly obviously far too early, and that trend will continue as the first wave continues to expand in the south and southwest. Edited June 24, 2020 by Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I dont think they are going to halt Covid in the US this side of 200000 dead. Perhaps not even quarter of a million. Its become too much of a political football now to do anything about it, and its herd immunity all round. Well, whatever. I'm tired of arguing about it and even discussing it. Every country has to make their own choices how to handle it, and like you said a few weeks ago to someone here, "it's your country". The information is out there and by now it is good enough to both inform individual choices on taking risks and also political choices about measures to control the spread of the virus. If a country chooses not to use it, it's on them. It is as you rightly say up to them. The problem is the knock on effect to global trade and travel. A few weeks ago I was afraid that Russia would be a sink of infection on the edge of Europe that might threaten European security. In actual fact, the EU is now talking about the potential banning of US Tourists for precisely the same reason.https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/06/23/eu-ban-american-travelers-might-prohibited-visiting-europe/3244710001/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasidas Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Both sides turned the disease into a political litmus test putting everyone into one of two camps. Right: If you believe in any form of mitigation or tracking, you're a whiny fear mongering SJW trying to steal my rights and destroy the economy to get rid of Trump. Left: If you believe in any form of public gatherings outside of protesting, you're a racist, hate filled disease locus endangering innocent lives for money. There is no middle ground anymore, because we let extremists on both sides hijack the discussion, mainly because the media sold out, and is completely sensationalist. This lack of a moderate ground is very firm evidence of societal decadence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Both sides turned the disease into a political litmus test putting everyone into one of two camps. Right: If you believe in any form of mitigation or tracking, you're a whiny fear mongering SJW trying to steal my rights and destroy the economy to get rid of Trump. Left: If you believe in any form of public gatherings outside of protesting, you're a racist, hate filled disease locus endangering innocent lives for money. There is no middle ground anymore, because we let extremists on both sides hijack the discussion, mainly because the media sold out, and is completely sensationalist. This lack of a moderate ground is very firm evidence of societal decadence. There is more than a little truth in that summation it has to be said. Yes you are perfectly right, there is an effort from all political extremes to destroy the middle ground, polarizing the arguments. Ive noticed the same in my own country over Brexit for example. If you are a middle ground moderate, as I flatter myself I am, it bloody annoys me having people demand I have to fit in one box or another. I get it here all the time. Edited June 24, 2020 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 I dont think they are going to halt Covid in the US this side of 200000 dead. Perhaps not even quarter of a million. Its become too much of a political football now to do anything about it, and its herd immunity all round. Well, whatever. I'm tired of arguing about it and even discussing it. Every country has to make their own choices how to handle it, and like you said a few weeks ago to someone here, "it's your country". The information is out there and by now it is good enough to both inform individual choices on taking risks and also political choices about measures to control the spread of the virus. If a country chooses not to use it, it's on them. It is as you rightly say up to them. The problem is the knock on effect to global trade and travel. A few weeks ago I was afraid that Russia would be a sink of infection on the edge of Europe that might threaten European security. In actual fact, the EU is now talking about the potential banning of US Tourists for precisely the same reason.https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/06/23/eu-ban-american-travelers-might-prohibited-visiting-europe/3244710001/ Well, we have our own problems in Europe, and especially in Germany. No one should think they're in a position to gloat about infection numbers at this point. The whole question of when to reopen what is blowing up right now in my country. Things currently still seem pretty stable, with mandatory mask-wearing, contact tracing that is still mostly keeping up with numbers, and some restrictions on personal contacts and large gatherings, but I fear as soon as schools reopen across the board, things could go bad again quickly. We already have a large recent cluster around a meat packing plant in northern Germany that shows how quickly these superspreading events can pick up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kennedy Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) I dont think they are going to halt Covid in the US this side of 200000 dead. Perhaps not even quarter of a million. Its become too much of a political football now to do anything about it, and its herd immunity all round. Well, whatever. I'm tired of arguing about it and even discussing it. Every country has to make their own choices how to handle it, and like you said a few weeks ago to someone here, "it's your country". The information is out there and by now it is good enough to both inform individual choices on taking risks and also political choices about measures to control the spread of the virus. If a country chooses not to use it, it's on them. It is as you rightly say up to them. The problem is the knock on effect to global trade and travel. A few weeks ago I was afraid that Russia would be a sink of infection on the edge of Europe that might threaten European security. In actual fact, the EU is now talking about the potential banning of US Tourists for precisely the same reason.https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/06/23/eu-ban-american-travelers-might-prohibited-visiting-europe/3244710001/ Well, we have our own problems in Europe, and especially in Germany. No one should think they're in a position to gloat about infection numbers at this point. I'm trying to think of which countries have actually done a great job at it. Even rock stars like SK and Singapore are having problems again. I guess the outlier is New Zealand, but they had so many factors in their favor (island nation, cohesive population, competent leadership etc.). Edited June 24, 2020 by Brian Kennedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 Well, we have our own problems in Europe, and especially in Germany. No one should think they're in a position to gloat about infection numbers at this point. I'm trying to think of which countries have actually done a great job at it. Even rock stars like SK and Singapore are having problems again. I guess the outlier is New Zealand, but they had so many factors in their favor (island nation, cohesive population, competent leadership etc.). Among European countries, Austria did very well, at least with their own cases, the ones that didn't travel home from their ski resorts and infected most of northern Europe. Austria had some of the strictest lockdown measures among the European countries that didn't also have a ton of deaths at the same time, and their curve seems to suggest they made the right choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I dont think they are going to halt Covid in the US this side of 200000 dead. Perhaps not even quarter of a million. Its become too much of a political football now to do anything about it, and its herd immunity all round. Well, whatever. I'm tired of arguing about it and even discussing it. Every country has to make their own choices how to handle it, and like you said a few weeks ago to someone here, "it's your country". The information is out there and by now it is good enough to both inform individual choices on taking risks and also political choices about measures to control the spread of the virus. If a country chooses not to use it, it's on them. It is as you rightly say up to them. The problem is the knock on effect to global trade and travel. A few weeks ago I was afraid that Russia would be a sink of infection on the edge of Europe that might threaten European security. In actual fact, the EU is now talking about the potential banning of US Tourists for precisely the same reason.https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/06/23/eu-ban-american-travelers-might-prohibited-visiting-europe/3244710001/ Well, we have our own problems in Europe, and especially in Germany. No one should think they're in a position to gloat about infection numbers at this point. I'm trying to think of which countries have actually done a great job at it. Even rock stars like SK and Singapore are having problems again. I guess the outlier is New Zealand, but they had so many factors in their favor (island nation, cohesive population, competent leadership etc.). The bolded part. The US doesn't have competent leadership. He should be setting an example to people on what to do, like wearing a mask. He is more worried about getting re-elected, which would be a no contest, if he showed more interest in controlling the spread of covid19. He wants to cut back on testing because the increase in numbers doesn't look good. An IDIOT, be sure!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Yes its leadership which is the problem. One has to be careful of what Trump is accused of, of course. To hear CNN you would think he is personally responsible for the deaths of all those who died in the US. He isnt. Those people were always going to die if nothing effective was done to stop it. The most we can say of Trump is he has failed in the leadership role the American people gave to him. Even that needs to be qualified by the not unreasonable point Trump made, that nobody else before him maintained an adequate stockpile of PPE. He is absolutely right. It doesnt explain why he didnt do anything about it either of course. I think any national leader confronted by this virus would have floundered. Most have. Even New Zealand, South Korea and China, lauded for their early actions, are getting the second peak. We have yet to see if they will ultimately be successful either. I guess what im saying is, I loathe Trump, but we must split criticism of him between what is unreasonable (he could not have saved US from the epidemic in entirity) and what is reasonable (the numbers could, and should have been a lot lower than they are). Would Hillary, or Biden or Obama have done any better? I really am not certain. Im sure the leadership would have been more proactive, what im doubtful of is how much the American people would have engaged with it. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink. Edited June 24, 2020 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Trump's entire reaction to the infection was to wish it would go away and push responsibility down to the individual states. Except for the ineffective China travel ban* and belatedly ordering specific companies to make ventilators after they were largely no longer needed, Trump abdicated all leadership on the issue. He flatly denied any responsibility as well; he basically made it all the governors' problem. He failed to centralize the purchase of PPE and actively conflicted with individual states trying to purchase the same. His inaction probably cost thousands of lives, but more over (from his self centered point of view) will likely cost him the election. Had he prepared for the pandemic in the couple months of time that he had from the first warnings and then taken strong action at the national level in mid March, while also setting a strong example himself (he could be owning the whole mask issue by wearing one and selling MAGA flavored ones on his website), he probably would have come out as the man who saved the US from the disease and easily been re-elected. The US is paying for his completely lack of leadership now and he will pay for it personally in November. *The media unfairly criticized this ban, but I think it was a perfectly realistic response. I consider the ban never the less ineffective because it allowed for US citizens to return directly to regular airports and basically forced them home all at once, routed through international terminals that were now extra over crowded. From infection standpoint, doing nothing probably would have been about as useful. Those flights should have been forced to air bases or otherwise spread out to non international, less busy airports and processed there if there was to be any hope of the measure actually controlling the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Trump's entire reaction to the infection was to wish it would go away and push responsibility down to the individual states. Except for the ineffective China travel ban* and belatedly ordering specific companies to make ventilators after they were largely no longer needed, Trump abdicated all leadership on the issue. He flatly denied any responsibility as well; he basically made it all the governors' problem. He failed to centralize the purchase of PPE and actively conflicted with individual states trying to purchase the same. His inaction probably cost thousands of lives, but more over (from his self centered point of view) will likely cost him the election. Had he prepared for the pandemic in the couple months of time that he had from the first warnings and then taken strong action at the national level in mid March, while also setting a strong example himself (he could be owning the whole mask issue by wearing one and selling MAGA flavored ones on his website), he probably would have come out as the man who saved the US from the disease and easily been re-elected. The US is paying for his completely lack of leadership now and he will pay for it personally in November. *The media unfairly criticized this ban, but I think it was a perfectly realistic response. I consider the ban never the less ineffective because it allowed for US citizens to return directly to regular airports and basically forced them home all at once, routed through international terminals that were now extra over crowded. From infection standpoint, doing nothing probably would have been about as useful. Those flights should have been forced to air bases or otherwise spread out to non international, less busy airports and processed there if there was to be any hope of the measure actually controlling the spread.Presidents don't have as much authority as you seem to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn239 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 The US doesn't have competent leadership. He should be setting an example to people on what to do, like wearing a mask. He is more worried about getting re-elected, which would be a no contest, if he showed more interest in controlling the spread of covid19. He wants to cut back on testing because the increase in numbers doesn't look good. An IDIOT, be sure!!! Grudging agreement. Trump's comments on testing were just plain stupid, and FOX's attempts to roll them back as him "joking" were pathetic. Trump had the election, then came along Covid and he lost it. But now, the riots on the Left are doing their best to get him back into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 He is not called Teflon Donnie without reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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