lucklucky Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Quote Four babies died in Adelaide, Australia over the last four weeks after being denied transport to Melbourne because of government COVID-19 restrictions, health officials say. Adelaide, the capital city of the state of South Australia, doesn't offer paediatric cardiac surgery. According to local news reports, this means about 100 babies are sent interstate for treatment annually, typically to Melbourne's Royal Children's Hospital. Because of COVID-19 lockdown restrictions, however, Melbourne no longer remains an option. Patients must be sent to Sydney instead. https://fee.org/articles/four-newborns-die-after-being-denied-heart-surgery-because-of-covid-travel-restrictions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 8:58 PM, Stargrunt6 said: I should have specified... were prolonged lockdowns worth it? Doctors are identifying a lot of potentiel long term effects of Covid, even on people mildly effected. The real cost to healthcare may be 20 years down the road as heart issues spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 It is also worth pointing out that when/if the ACA is struck down, tens of millions of Americans will be without healthcare and insurance companies will be free to interpret C19 as a pre existing heart and lung condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Steven P Allen said: I found it ironic--if unsatisfying in the long term--that the unions clamoring for more and more cost them more and more jobs. Unions are often enough the cartel of job owners against the unemployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTK Ciar Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Ivanhoe said: When people talk only about cases and not deaths, I assume they are talking politics, not health. For what it's worth, I'm interested in the size of the infected population because it's one of the terms needed to calculate the risk accrued when exposed to random strangers. Also, because it's where we'll see the inflection start when the infected population approaches its saturation point. Dunno how common that is, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 France currently has been reported that they have 40,000 new infections every day (with many ICUs at the saturation point already) and the wife asked if at that rate they wouldn't soon reach the fabled "herd immunity" at which point I had to point out that at this rate it would still take about 700 days more of full-on pandemic, which was an "Oh" moment (admittedly for both of us, sometimes you just have to do the math to realize the magnitude of the problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) USA set a record for one day cases of over 80,000, most being in Red States. That "rounding the corner" tRump keeps saying must be vertical over a cliff. Edited October 24, 2020 by MiloMorai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 80,000 is still just a 3,750th of the US population, or a 2,250th of what's needed for herd immunity. So, six more years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) I calculated this morning that with 1,121 German COVID cases currently in ICU, 8,000 beds still free and another 10,000 able to be be cleared if necessary, about 85,000 new infections per day would be the saturation point assuming a two-week delay until admittance to ICU (14 days ago the number of the day was just below 5,000). Yesterday it was 13,500 (or 14,700 if you take the RKI numbers which count from morning to morning rather than midnight to midnight). Edited October 24, 2020 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 1:46 PM, Skywalkre said: Big box stores tend to have all the supplies (food, cleaning, toiletries) that one would need during a lockdown and that Ma-and-Pa stores aren't selling because it makes no business sense to compete with those big companies in those markets (unless it's rural in which case they likely stayed open). Agree. Many of you are looking at these rules for who has to be shut down and eyeing the government suspiciously... yet where's the criticism of a complete lack of relief efforts from the government to help out said small businesses? We had measures earlier in the year but initial reports were (shock, surprise) such measures helped out big businesses more than the little ones. Further relief efforts seem stalled til after the election or possibly til after inauguration day. Even a fiscal conservative like myself admits times like this it's actually appropriate for the government to step in and help... yet we're seeing nothing. Why are you all not criticizing that aspect of the pandemic reaction? Define "the government." Lockdowns are state specific, and I believe, local modifications in a few locations. If said local and state governments truly wished to help small businesses they would allow said businesses to remain open. Said businesses could have, and in my area, have asked customers to wear masks, stay home if ill, and don't gather close together. I find it a terrible over reach in that in some areas churches are closed, yet demonstrations are allowed. Politics, aka "power" over science? To put it further in perspective an economist I was listening to the other night mentioned that if we were to get stimulus passed we could hopefully get the economy out of this recession by 2022. If we fail to pass any further stimulus we could likely see a severe recession/depression lasting through 2030 (in no small part because of all these businesses closing that will be lost for good). The latter, right now, is what we're looking at. That's as much on the government as it is for the poorly implemented lockdown measures from the past and unlike those this is going forward... so things can still change. "... an economist I was listening to..." let's be more accurate. Business owners I know, associate with, and myself a (very) small business owner know how to economically accelerate an economy. Get local and state government out of the way! This Chinese virus has a mortality rate of about 3%, and drop a percentage point when the elderly are excluded. Too many local and state governments have over reacted to this "election infection!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) I personally cannot understand a society that is so wholly against abortion that some of its citizens will burn clinics down, but is perfectly ok with anyone above 50 (or indeed ethnic groups or people with down syndrome or other birth conditions, whom seem uniquely vulnerable to this)dying off in a pandemic for the greater good. I just cannot wrap my head around that one. Particularly as many in the elder demographic group have put their lives on the line and fought for their nation, some several times over in some cases, only to get the sticky finger and told not to be a burden on a society recovering from economic troubles. Any society that is so utterly disregarding of its veterans, its neighbours, its parents, its aunts and uncles, even its older siblings, frankly doesnt deserve to survive. Its certainly not Christian anymore. If we did this in Europe, you would call it fascism. I truly mean no offense Rick, but stop and think what you are saying here, its paracide on societal level. Its only a heartbeat away from labelling it eugenics. As for the death rate, that is going to be 3 percent of mortality for everyone that gets it, every year, for every year the virus is still with us. Think about that. Say you have in America you have 8 million (probably over 8 million) infected with Covid 19 in the US every year, because its entirely possible this is going to keep coming back. That means you end up with something like 250 to 300 thousand dead every year, because the immunity simply does not last. That means cumulatively you are going to be standing the chance of getting Covid 19 every year, with the 3 percent chance every time you get it of it killing you. That is not counting the organ or systems damage more and more people are reporting, the long term effects of which we absolutely cannot predict. Perhaps the memory loss brings on alzheimers early? Or perhaps the heart damage means you are suffering coronary's in your late 50's? Hearing loss,blindness? I dont want to take my chances on any of those personally, and its a time bomb under society nobody has stopped to calculate. The epidemologists have been saying if they were to pick the truly worst pandemic they could, it would be an airborne disease that affects the respiratory system. Which is precisely what we have. There are absolutely no half measures to deal with this. Our economies, our civilization, is absolutely not going to recover until either it dies out of which there is no indication, or we kill it. We have been saying all this for months. Edited October 24, 2020 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: I personally cannot understand a society that is so wholly against abortion that some of its citizens will burn clinics down, but is perfectly ok with anyone above 50 (or indeed ethnic groups or people with down syndrome or other birth conditions, whom seem uniquely vulnerable to this)dying off in a pandemic for the greater good. I just cannot wrap my head around that one. So it is okay for you to kill old people by them do not have access to to medical support because of a v´irus. It is okay that people will die due to lack of economy, activity. Maybe think that stuff appears out of thin air But it is ok to kill babies because well you just want to do it. And about Fascism, read about it before talking crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 1 hour ago, lucklucky said: So it is okay for you to kill old people by them do not have access to to medical support because of a v´irus. It is okay that people will die due to lack of economy, activity. Maybe think that stuff appears out of thin air But it is ok to kill babies because well you just want to do it. And about Fascism, read about it before talking crap. Who said I was ever ok with older folks dying? Think how much money those older folks spend. How is the economy ever going to recover when they are hunkered down at home? It's a false premise. You are going to get the economy to recover with over 54 million people at risk? https://www.statista.com/statistics/457822/share-of-old-age-population-in-the-total-us-population/ I'm not suggesting these people are insignificant, you are. And if you want to assert I write crap, perhaps I might suggest you apply yourself to reading it first? You might learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I think that abortions are OK, death penalty is OK and Swedish style relaxed Covid measures are OK. Just so I can get on everyone's nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: As for the death rate, that is going to be 3 percent of mortality for everyone that gets it, every year, for every year the virus is still with us. Think about that. Say you have in America you have 8 million (probably over 8 million) infected with Covid 19 in the US every year, because its entirely possible this is going to keep coming back. That means you end up with something like 250 to 300 thousand dead every year, because the immunity simply does not last. A recent review of the literature suggests the infection fatality rate for COVID-19 based on the seroprevalence rate is just 0.05% for those under 70 years of age, or 1 in 2000. https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf Edited October 24, 2020 by Daan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 You are probably right, but that still assumes you cannot get it again when you had it once, which does it seem at all certain. People are reportedly losing their antibodies in as little as 3 months, and whilst there may be some other system in the immune system that means you won't get it again, it remains guesswork at best. Some people certainly had it twice. And it still leaves a great number of people with long term health problems who don't seem to be being counted at all. The truth is, there are a lot of people who have blindly accelerated the myth of herd immunity without really understanding how unlikely it is, or appreciating the death toll such a policy would mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 1 hour ago, bojan said: I think that abortions are OK, death penalty is OK and Swedish style relaxed Covid measures are OK. Just so I can get on everyone's nerves. 🖕🖕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Figures don't lie but liars figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 This guy is the consumate bureaucratic weasel. Quote Released emails show Fauci signed off on WHO-sponsored statement approving China's response to COVID The statement was sent out in late January before the worst of the pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 11 hours ago, bojan said: I think that abortions are OK, death penalty is OK and Swedish style relaxed Covid measures are OK. Just so I can get on everyone's nerves. I'm fine with all of this. I think the Swedish solution might not work for everyone, but the Swedes should do Swedes...like that porn I watched... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Never mock the amusement of Swedes doing BBC. And I dont mean Eastenders. Anyway, swiftly moving on... 11 hours ago, Jeff said: Figures don't lie but liars figure. Well the figures are out there, currently the hospitalizations seem to be half what they were in May and August, although as the actual number of cases is now surging in a very alarming manner, there seems to be no reason to suppose it canteither match, or exceed past totals. Thats not my opinion btw, that is the doctors and epidemiologists opinion. Im unsure of the veracity of this, but it seems to be matching some of the data ive seen on the news. Which probably means they got it from here as well. https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-currently-hospitalized This is the alarming one. It indicates cases are already at the level they were at the end of July before the surge abated. That is somethwhere between 60 and 88 thousand cases per day. Nobody can pretend this is good news. https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-all-key-metrics The only good news seems to be that the same means that combat Covid also Combat flu. In Asia, which Covid under control, they seem to be lacking a Flu surge. OTOH, as America and Europe have not control of it, its far from certain we wont have that as well as a Covid surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 15 hours ago, bojan said: I think that abortions are OK, death penalty is OK and Swedish style relaxed Covid measures are OK. Just so I can get on everyone's nerves. "but mask wearing must be mandatory" Fify :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 But only when there isnt an R in the Month. Or Bank Holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 About those masks: https://msphere.asm.org/content/5/5/e00637-20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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