When Germany Bombed Pearl Harbor, And The Ostrich Died For Nothing

[rmgill]

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

 

You ever hear of a man called Charles Lindbergh? Edward Kennedy? Henry Ford? Woodrow Wilson? Why do you think Hitler thought the US was decadent and corrupt? How much responsibility can they carry, yes, along with Chamberlain, for the underestimation of the Anglosphere? How much did that cost us?

 

 

 

No, we aren't solely responsible for the bombing of pearl harbor. We can only take the blame for showing the Japs how to do it properly with Taranto.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Stuart Galbraith

[glenn239]

rmgill, on 23 Jan 2020 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

 

 

 

I think the better question is whether Trump is responsible for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor?

[NickM]

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

You ever hear of a man called Charles Lindbergh? Edward Kennedy? Henry Ford? Woodrow Wilson? Why do you think Hitler thought the US was decadent and corrupt? How much responsibility can they carry, yes, along with Chamberlain, for the underestimation of the Anglosphere? How much did that cost us?

 

 

 

No, we aren't solely responsible for the bombing of pearl harbor. We can only take the blame for showing the Japs how to do it properly with Taranto.

 

The battles of Meuse/Argonne had probably a lot to sway the opinions of those folks....

[Nobu]

The responsibility for Pearl Harbor? More like the credit for Pearl Harbor, as it is uncertain whether the United States would have entered the war without it.

[Mikel2]

William the Conqueror is clearly at fault for Pearl Harbor. No William, no PH attack.

[BansheeOne]

I'd go as far as saying that securing the British airfields during the American Revolutionary War led directly to the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

 

You ever hear of a man called Charles Lindbergh? Edward Kennedy? Henry Ford? Woodrow Wilson? Why do you think Hitler thought the US was decadent and corrupt? How much responsibility can they carry, yes, along with Chamberlain, for the underestimation of the Anglosphere? How much did that cost us?

No, we aren't solely responsible for the bombing of pearl harbor. We can only take the blame for showing the Japs how to do it properly with Taranto.

The battles of Meuse/Argonne had probably a lot to sway the opinions of those folks....

There is some recent academic thought that Wilson was going to stick it to the British and the French, and demand good terms for the Germans, so good that it's unlikely there would have been a chance for Hitler.

 

Then the day before the conference started, he got Spanish Flu. Ok, he didn't die, but he was not disposed to argue. his health ruined, he died not long after.

 

No flu, no Nazis.

 

 

 

I'd go as far as saying that securing the British airfields during the American Revolutionary War led directly to the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.

I blame the German real estate developer Columbus myself....

[Roman Alymov]

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

[JasonJ]

Good morning, おはよう, yawn, stretch, so lets see how the updates on the Iran situation.. ohhhhh its freaking PH.

[JasonJ]

The responsibility for Pearl Harbor? More like the credit for Pearl Harbor, as it is uncertain whether the United States would have entered the war without it.

This.

 

And as reward, Korea got cut in half with the northern half tossed to the commies. A fate more damaging to Korea than the 35 years as a colony of Japan. But fake MSM and victor's glory won't connect those dots.

[urbanoid]

I'd go as far as saying that securing the British airfields during the American Revolutionary War led directly to the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.

And it wasn't over then!

[Stuart Galbraith]

And the Ostrich died for nothing.

[JasonJ]

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

You ever hear of a man called Charles Lindbergh? Edward Kennedy? Henry Ford? Woodrow Wilson? Why do you think Hitler thought the US was decadent and corrupt? How much responsibility can they carry, yes, along with Chamberlain, for the underestimation of the Anglosphere? How much did that cost us?

 

 

 

No, we aren't solely responsible for the bombing of pearl harbor. We can only take the blame for showing the Japs how to do it properly with Taranto.

 

Only good Jap is a dead Jap right? Whatever it takes to placate Ryan's "Japan 100% to blame, US and commonwealth 0% to blame" yeah?

[JasonJ]

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

 

Ryan may be pointing to a recent Smithsonian (or was it PBS?) documentary that pointed to some of the spies involved in investigating Pearl Harbor for the Japanese were, in fact, British spies in the pay of the Japanese. Although as already pointed out, if you are going to hold a nation accountable for the faults of one man, there isn't one of us that would escape a whipping.

 

That was Roman, not Ryan.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

 

Ryan may be pointing to a recent Smithsonian (or was it PBS?) documentary that pointed to some of the spies involved in investigating Pearl Harbor for the Japanese were, in fact, British spies in the pay of the Japanese. Although as already pointed out, if you are going to hold a nation accountable for the faults of one man, there isn't one of us that would escape a whipping.

 

That was Roman, not Ryan.

 

 

No, Ryan was the one that brought up Pearl Harbor, post 726.

 

Bojan has always been hauling me up on the idea that I ALWAYS take the side of the west and I never give credit for other nations sometimes being right. Which may sometimes be true, but Im also fully aware in a crisis, all sides have a responsiblity to be grown ups, even if you didnt precipitate the crisis.

 

Unfortunately most people take the view that when you are right, everyone else has to get out the road. We clearly didnt take that view in the cold war, whats changed? The US is no longer the hyperpower Fukuyama envisaged, and it can no longer play games like it has no skin in the game.

[JasonJ]

 

 

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

 

Ryan may be pointing to a recent Smithsonian (or was it PBS?) documentary that pointed to some of the spies involved in investigating Pearl Harbor for the Japanese were, in fact, British spies in the pay of the Japanese. Although as already pointed out, if you are going to hold a nation accountable for the faults of one man, there isn't one of us that would escape a whipping.

 

That was Roman, not Ryan.

 

 

No, Ryan was the one that brought up Pearl Harbor, post 726.

 

Bojan has always been hauling me up on the idea that I ALWAYS take the side of the west and I never give credit for other nations sometimes being right. Which may sometimes be true, but Im also fully aware in a crisis, all sides have a responsiblity to be grown ups, even if you didnt precipitate the crisis.

 

Unfortunately most people take the view that when you are right, everyone else has to get out the road. We clearly didnt take that view in the cold war, whats changed? The US is no longer the hyperpower Fukuyama envisaged, and it can no longer play games like it has no skin in the game.

 

Ok, so what's it then? 99% Japan blame. 1% US and commonwealth blame? If that's called fair and balance point of view, then I jon't know what it is.

 

And dispite all the outside aid the US, GB, and the SU grnated CKS, he still lost, and only took him 4 years to lose. The whole UN vision of a grand anti-commie China as the 4th and final seat of the new UN world order already flipped over. Good freaking job justice heroes.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

 

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

 

Ryan may be pointing to a recent Smithsonian (or was it PBS?) documentary that pointed to some of the spies involved in investigating Pearl Harbor for the Japanese were, in fact, British spies in the pay of the Japanese. Although as already pointed out, if you are going to hold a nation accountable for the faults of one man, there isn't one of us that would escape a whipping.

 

That was Roman, not Ryan.

 

 

No, Ryan was the one that brought up Pearl Harbor, post 726.

 

Bojan has always been hauling me up on the idea that I ALWAYS take the side of the west and I never give credit for other nations sometimes being right. Which may sometimes be true, but Im also fully aware in a crisis, all sides have a responsiblity to be grown ups, even if you didnt precipitate the crisis.

 

Unfortunately most people take the view that when you are right, everyone else has to get out the road. We clearly didnt take that view in the cold war, whats changed? The US is no longer the hyperpower Fukuyama envisaged, and it can no longer play games like it has no skin in the game.

 

Ok, so what's it then? 99% Japan blame. 1% US and commonwealth blame? If that's called fair and balance point of view, then I jon't know what it is.

 

And dispite all the outside aid the US, GB, and the SU grnated CKS, he still lost, and only took him 4 years to lose. The whole UN vision of a grand anti-commie China as the 4th and final seat of the new UN world order already flipped over. Good freaking job justice heroes.

 

 

Well we did Japan and the war before, and I dont want to drag it off topic even further, not least because ive no desire to piss you off. But it is illustrative of the idea that you cannot put the blame for a crisis or a war just on one player. Its not even true of Nazi Germany, particularly when there were a lot of Western Financial firms willing to give the Nazi's loans. Something we still haven't learned from. Even the Soviets made their own Gollum, by working with the German military back into the 1920's. Everyone had a certain degree of responsibility to what followed.

 

I keep coming back to the Agadir crisis. Yes, in that crisis, the Kaiser behaved wholly unreasonably as the initiator of it. But it didnt result in war, because all sides took the position they didnt want war, and worked reasonably towards that end. That didnt work 2 years later because 3 sides had already embarked on a process without bothering to think it through, and by the time they had, there was no time left to resolve it peacefully because the troops were already deploying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agadir_Crisis

 

Thats why I mean about responsibility in a crisis. If you are pointing guns at each other, it no longer matters who started it, its only relevant how it ends. We seem to have got beyond that kind of thinking, where our perceived rightness gets in the way of the process of resolution. As far as I can see, both sides in the Iranian crisis are doing precisely that. You dont HAVE to like or respect Iran to appreciate their fear of attack is going to create all kinds of problems for us, as the passengers on flight 752 would attest. Well, if they could anyway.

 

[JasonJ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

 

Ryan may be pointing to a recent Smithsonian (or was it PBS?) documentary that pointed to some of the spies involved in investigating Pearl Harbor for the Japanese were, in fact, British spies in the pay of the Japanese. Although as already pointed out, if you are going to hold a nation accountable for the faults of one man, there isn't one of us that would escape a whipping.

 

That was Roman, not Ryan.

 

 

No, Ryan was the one that brought up Pearl Harbor, post 726.

 

Bojan has always been hauling me up on the idea that I ALWAYS take the side of the west and I never give credit for other nations sometimes being right. Which may sometimes be true, but Im also fully aware in a crisis, all sides have a responsiblity to be grown ups, even if you didnt precipitate the crisis.

 

Unfortunately most people take the view that when you are right, everyone else has to get out the road. We clearly didnt take that view in the cold war, whats changed? The US is no longer the hyperpower Fukuyama envisaged, and it can no longer play games like it has no skin in the game.

 

Ok, so what's it then? 99% Japan blame. 1% US and commonwealth blame? If that's called fair and balance point of view, then I jon't know what it is.

 

And dispite all the outside aid the US, GB, and the SU grnated CKS, he still lost, and only took him 4 years to lose. The whole UN vision of a grand anti-commie China as the 4th and final seat of the new UN world order already flipped over. Good freaking job justice heroes.

 

 

Well we did Japan and the war before, and I dont want to drag it off topic even further, not least because ive no desire to piss you off. But it is illustrative of the idea that you cannot put the blame for a crisis or a war just on one player. Its not even true of Nazi Germany, particularly when there were a lot of Western Financial firms willing to give the Nazi's loans. Something we still haven't learned from. Even the Soviets made their own Gollum, by working with the German military back into the 1920's. Everyone had a certain degree of responsibility to what followed.

 

I keep coming back to the Agadir crisis. Yes, in that crisis, the Kaiser behaved wholly unreasonably as the initiator of it. But it didnt result in war, because all sides took the position they didnt want war, and worked reasonably towards that end. That didnt work 2 years later because 3 sides had already embarked on a process without bothering to think it through, and by the time they had, there was no time left to resolve it peacefully because the troops were already deploying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agadir_Crisis

 

Thats why I mean about responsibility in a crisis. If you are pointing guns at each other, it no longer matters who started it, its only relevant how it ends. We seem to have got beyond that kind of thinking, where our perceived rightness gets in the way of the process of resolution. As far as I can see, both sides in the Iranian crisis are doing precisely that. You dont HAVE to like or respect Iran to appreciate their fear of attack is going to create all kinds of problems for us, as the passengers on flight 752 would attest. Well, if they could anyway.

 

 

Then don't go dropping Jap that is part of a big OT topic. Yeah, I'm pissed. Oh well. Ban me then.

 

Maybe what really needs to happen is another 10 pages of shit. Get Ryan to back up his bold statement if your no longer in the mode to placate it.

 

There have been plenty of times to give full thoughts related to that topic in other threads. But drop it in another thread and then make pretend to not go off topic while leaving an air of acceptance behind the idea of the shit dropping?

 

Let's not abuse "let's not go off topic" now with loopholes.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stuart, So, the British are responsible for the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor? What with you know, starting WWII and all.

Poor choice of words and analogies leads to wrong conclusions. Yes without British Empire support of Japan prior and during Rus-Jap war Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor decades later was hardly possible. But does it mean Britain officials somewhere in 1900 were plotting attack on Pearl Harbor? As for me, not.

 

 

Ryan may be pointing to a recent Smithsonian (or was it PBS?) documentary that pointed to some of the spies involved in investigating Pearl Harbor for the Japanese were, in fact, British spies in the pay of the Japanese. Although as already pointed out, if you are going to hold a nation accountable for the faults of one man, there isn't one of us that would escape a whipping.

 

That was Roman, not Ryan.

 

 

No, Ryan was the one that brought up Pearl Harbor, post 726.

 

Bojan has always been hauling me up on the idea that I ALWAYS take the side of the west and I never give credit for other nations sometimes being right. Which may sometimes be true, but Im also fully aware in a crisis, all sides have a responsiblity to be grown ups, even if you didnt precipitate the crisis.

 

Unfortunately most people take the view that when you are right, everyone else has to get out the road. We clearly didnt take that view in the cold war, whats changed? The US is no longer the hyperpower Fukuyama envisaged, and it can no longer play games like it has no skin in the game.

 

Ok, so what's it then? 99% Japan blame. 1% US and commonwealth blame? If that's called fair and balance point of view, then I jon't know what it is.

 

And dispite all the outside aid the US, GB, and the SU grnated CKS, he still lost, and only took him 4 years to lose. The whole UN vision of a grand anti-commie China as the 4th and final seat of the new UN world order already flipped over. Good freaking job justice heroes.

 

 

Well we did Japan and the war before, and I dont want to drag it off topic even further, not least because ive no desire to piss you off. But it is illustrative of the idea that you cannot put the blame for a crisis or a war just on one player. Its not even true of Nazi Germany, particularly when there were a lot of Western Financial firms willing to give the Nazi's loans. Something we still haven't learned from. Even the Soviets made their own Gollum, by working with the German military back into the 1920's. Everyone had a certain degree of responsibility to what followed.

 

I keep coming back to the Agadir crisis. Yes, in that crisis, the Kaiser behaved wholly unreasonably as the initiator of it. But it didnt result in war, because all sides took the position they didnt want war, and worked reasonably towards that end. That didnt work 2 years later because 3 sides had already embarked on a process without bothering to think it through, and by the time they had, there was no time left to resolve it peacefully because the troops were already deploying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agadir_Crisis

 

Thats why I mean about responsibility in a crisis. If you are pointing guns at each other, it no longer matters who started it, its only relevant how it ends. We seem to have got beyond that kind of thinking, where our perceived rightness gets in the way of the process of resolution. As far as I can see, both sides in the Iranian crisis are doing precisely that. You dont HAVE to like or respect Iran to appreciate their fear of attack is going to create all kinds of problems for us, as the passengers on flight 752 would attest. Well, if they could anyway.

 

 

Then don't go dropping Jap that is part of a big OT topic. Yeah, I'm pissed. Oh well. Ban me then.

 

Maybe what really needs to happen is another 10 pages of shit. Get Ryan to back up his bold statement if your no longer in the mode to placate it.

 

There have been plenty of times to give full thoughts related to that topic in other threads. But drop it in another thread and then make pretend to not go off topic while leaving an air of acceptance behind the idea of the shit dropping?

 

Let's not abuse "let's not go off topic" now with loopholes.

 

Jason, please take it up with Ryan. I had no absolutely desire, and saw no reason, to bring Pearl Harbor into this. Ok?

[JasonJ]

Where's that angry thread that I believe Corinthian started? Oh it got cleaned out like many other FFZ threads.

 

[DB]

I suppose that it's far too much to ask that people leave their partisan tendencies at the door before they start mashing the keyboard with their foreheads?

 

The current reductio ad absurdem around assigning blame can stop here... The apple was eaten, so it's all Adam's fault.

 

Oh wait, it was God's fault for putting the apple tree there in the first place.

 

If only there was a roll-eye smiley of sufficient size.

[JasonJ]

I suppose that it's far too much to ask that people leave their partisan tendencies at the door before they start mashing the keyboard with their foreheads?

 

The current reductio ad absurdem around assigning blame can stop here... The apple was eaten, so it's all Adam's fault.

 

Oh wait, it was God's fault for putting the apple tree there in the first place.

 

If only there was a roll-eye smiley of sufficient size.

50/50

 

Is that so hard?

[glenn239]

Good morning, おはよう, yawn, stretch, so lets see how the updates on the Iran situation.. ohhhhh its freaking PH.

 

Yeah. For once someone other than you turned a thread into a discussion about Japan. Go figure. :^)

[rmgill]

Only good Jap is a dead Jap right? Whatever it takes to placate Ryan's "Japan 100% to blame, US and commonwealth 0% to blame" yeah?

 

Bakayaro. Don't read into what I said and pull out something I didn't articulate. I was asking Stuart a specific question for the reasons described above. Nothing more.

 

But if you really must know, I'm glad Japan and Japanese culture survived WWII and did not have to be repeatedly bombed to make the rubble bounce. I'm very pleased it did not take a Carthaginian solution to end the war. It did however need to be brought to heel for a variety of reasons.