Student Loan Blues

[Burncycle360]

Tuition increases for the same reason soldiers get ripped off at car dealerships just off base they know the money is reliable because its govt subsidized. The institutions have porked up because who wouldnt in that environment?

The alternative if the subsidies stopped is NOT only the rich and privileged go to college, it is that universities will adapt and prices will come back down or they wont be able to keep the lights on, and the first professors to be culled will be their equivalent to the learn to code woke journalists who were culled in 2018. Theres no downside there, those woke social justice professors are causing real damage. But that will take time.

In the meantime, again there is a difference between a university education and a university degree.

I was born in the 80s yet was watching lectures from Richard Feynman himself the other day thanks to the magic of the Internet, virtually sitting in the halls of the Royal Institution watching a lecture on the P=NP problem, a DEFCON presentation on penetration testing, eating popcorn at a TED talk about why India has a space program and nukes but the majority of their populace still shits out in the open, a YouTube video on how San Francisco also has a public shitting problem, and how to make your own backyard forge, taking an anatomy and physiology refresher on Khan Academy, and scratching the surface of intro to Aerospace engineering on MIT Open Courseware.

None of that cost me a dime directly. None of that had to be Govt subsidized to happen, they were private initiatives. The only downside is I didnt have someone to bounce questions off of, but If I needed that Id rather pay a tutor directly for their time than spend $30,000 to gain access to that and frat parties.

A very surprising few employers gave a shit about my bachelors, they wanted to know what certs I had.

Even poor Americans in the inner cities have phones with data. Hell the homeless in this city almost all have phones with data. Theres nothing stopping people from furthering themselves in between Uber fares, they just have to stop playing candy crush and bitching about how oppressive and terrible society is on twitter while sipping their Starbucks in an air conditioned car.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Burncycle360

[Brian Kennedy]

Imho the problem is that a college degree has become a necessity for most white collar employment, which has led people to assume that college should have a strong vocational component, when the whole system was originally set up to, you know, give you a well rounded education. Its just a terrible way to learn job skills, and it really should be seen as a luxury instead of a necessity.

 

Which kind of plays out in real life as well most people I know with degrees in underwater basket weaving or whatever had an oh-shit moment after graduating, got some books and learned Python or something and now have great careers that have nothing to do with their degrees.

 

I guess a college degree does serve as a gatekeeper in that it means youre relatively smart and had the discipline to do a sort of challenging thing from age 18-22, but thats about it.

 

I think one interesting development will be that a lot of white collar jobs now are focused on tech, which cares a lot more about actual skills. I have a job I love working in a quasi-tech industry, but my company doesnt give a rats ass about my fancy degrees.

[Ivanhoe]

Even poor Americans in the inner cities have phones with data. Hell the homeless in this city almost all have phones with data. Theres nothing stopping people from furthering themselves in between Uber fares, they just have to stop playing candy crush and bitching about how oppressive and terrible society is on twitter while sipping their Starbucks in an air conditioned car.

 

Public libraries are turning into computer labs. Which ain't a bad thing, except in some AOs the hours are miserable (ex. in my area, all the public libraries close at 1700 or 1800, no Sunday hours, limited Saturday hours, etc.). Depending on school/work hours, untenable for those folks who most need alternative education options.

[Ivanhoe]

Imho the problem is that a college degree has become a necessity for most white collar employment, which has led people to assume that college should have a strong vocational component, when the whole system was originally set up to, you know, give you a well rounded education. Its just a terrible way to learn job skills, and it really should be seen as a luxury instead of a necessity.

Not entirely true, as the university system originated in medieval times were all about divinity, law, and medicine degrees. All three require lots of GenEd, but also aimed at a particular vocation.

 

I guess a college degree does serve as a gatekeeper in that it means youre relatively smart and had the discipline to do a sort of challenging thing from age 18-22, but thats about it.

Traditionally, employers viewed a degree as evidence of being a "finisher". Lately, I have my doubts, as I know several people who either didn't finish or took a year or two longer due to the uni moving the goalposts annually.

 

I think one interesting development will be that a lot of white collar jobs now are focused on tech, which cares a lot more about actual skills.

I have had a couple or three skills tests in the interview process, but a useful skill test requires some knowledge, intellect, and work ethic on the part of the employer. I still see a lot of hiring based on buzzword content of the candidate's experience blocks on the resume.

 

[Ivanhoe]

From 2011, Why is College Tuition Increasing Consistently in the U.S.?

https://topforeignstocks.com/2011/04/02/why-is-college-tuition-increasing-consistently-in-the-us/

 

If you ever crunch the numbers on how much it really costs to deliver a quality uni-level education, on a $/contact hr basis, and compare with tuition & fees by the hour, its obvious that the $$ aren't going into actual educational processes. Tuition is rising yet research unis and liberal arts colleges are increasingly providing education via graduate TAs and adjuncts.

[Rick]

Put "Mike Rowe on college education" on Youtube. Interesting.

[Nobu]

The problems facing pre-college education in America, as in don't mess up the curve and it's cool to be stupid, were destined to trickle down (or up?) to the college experience. It was only a matter of time.

[Mobius]

I'm surprised that UC Berkeley is less than UCLA. Actually, they seem pretty reasonable at around $15k including books, fees, tution and dorm. Far more than what I paid 48 years ago. Still seems cheap if one compares it to specific training classes my companies paid for 4 week training courses I had to take. Private colleges like USC are asking $58k these days. Now California State University is pretty reasonable but it used to be free. Though the problem I remember was that it took at least 5-6 years to get a BS because students couldn't get their classes.

 

That probably would be a problem for free college tuition. So many students it will take 7 years to get a degree. Virtually everyone would be a Van Wilder.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mobius

[Rick]

 

How old is old enough that we can demand somebody should be held liable for the debt they voluntarily accrued? Whatever that age, that must be the minimum age for enlistment or draft into the military services. I submit that age should be 26 years, the age children can remain on mommy and daddy's insurance plans. It is statutory, 26 years is the age the federal government says that people are finally old enough to make choices and take care of themselves. I submit that all activities we reserve to adults: driving, alcohol consumption, military service, debt accrual, and higher education, should not be allowed until one achieves the age of 26 years.

 

Voting?

 

Just my opinion, but I believe if you paid income taxes in said year you can vote that year.

[Mobius]

 

 

How old is old enough that we can demand somebody should be held liable for the debt they voluntarily accrued? Whatever that age, that must be the minimum age for enlistment or draft into the military services. I submit that age should be 26 years, the age children can remain on mommy and daddy's insurance plans. It is statutory, 26 years is the age the federal government says that people are finally old enough to make choices and take care of themselves. I submit that all activities we reserve to adults: driving, alcohol consumption, military service, debt accrual, and higher education, should not be allowed until one achieves the age of 26 years.

 

Voting?

 

Just my opinion, but I believe if you paid income taxes in said year you can vote that year.

 

No. If you made over something like $600 (this may have changed since I last looked) in a year you pay income tax no matter what the age. You can't vote until you reach 18 years on election day.

But, it was old sleepy uncle Joe that help push the law that said a person can't get out of student loan debt by declaring bankruptcy.

[EchoFiveMike]

It's just usurious strip mining the population, just like the rest of the debt industry.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-raising-credit-card-limits-110000952.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cDovL3ZveGRheS5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJfxSJ1hsb0hpkEwgZv1cuwYaF2ouv6AxCBsHENJJuiotZu640H0ImIZkH7C8hYv7ujaWwsCjyN3qLWesBWuNvisn8lOYKwPmkG0fvjJF1h48vag0Ic00KURIalVJRzx4XRrBoCWaaU7W_Vg_NEhWIVGx13e1lAvxCFtnVUevuh4

 

When you remove any incentive for due diligence on the part of the lender, they ALWAYS do the same thing: amoral strip mining. The fuckers think they'll be bailed out again, and even if not, who gives a shit, they'll have profited and be gone anyways. S/F...Ken M

[Adam Peter]

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

[DKTanker]

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

In this case it is crony capitalism. Leftist institutions of higher learning have pressed allies in the Federal government to promote and provide cheap money for student loans. It was quite cynical, really. The idea was for the cheap money to be washed through student loans to the schools with eventual winners being, not the students, but the administrators and faculty of said schools. To encourage the banks to underwrite those guaranteed loans, the Federal Government agreed to make it very difficult for loan recipients to discharge their obligations through bankruptcy. School administrators win, politicians buy votes, banks break even but are seen as good citizens, with the students being the big losers. It wasn't and isn't capitalism, it was and continues to be a rigged game.

[Burncycle360]

Thats why IMO the republicans should jump on it. It will snatch up a big chunk of the center and left of center votes out from under the democrats noses and set the efforts of the radical regressive identitarian left back decades. Writing off a trillion is a bargain for all that, they were never going to see a lot of that money back anyway and since its a debt owed to the federal govt, its theirs to forgive without affecting the US S&P score.

 

Again though, the federal subsidies have to stop. Once the Guarunteed money stops flowing into universities theyll have to trim the fat and deliciously the first to go will be woke liberal arts teachers just like when woke journalists were let go last year and people gleefully suggested they learn to code...

[Mobius]

Thats why IMO the republicans should jump on it. It will snatch up a big chunk of the center and left of center votes out from under the democrats noses and set the efforts of the radical regressive identitarian left back decades. Writing off a trillion is a bargain for all that, they were never going to see a lot of that money back anyway and since its a debt owed to the federal govt, its theirs to forgive without affecting the US S&P score.

 

Again though, the federal subsidies have to stop. Once the Guarunteed money stops flowing into universities theyll have to trim the fat and deliciously the first to go will be woke liberal arts teachers just like when woke journalists were let go last year and people gleefully suggested they learn to code...

 

A lot of people who saved for college and paid back their student loans have wondered why they’re not getting a refund on the college tuition they paid, and one father got to ask Elizabeth Warren is he could have his money back. “Of course not.”

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/01/22/can-i-have-my-money-back-father-confronts-elizabeth-warren-over-student-loan-forgiveness/

 

Wouldn't this go under the heading of Reparations?

[Burncycle360]

No disagreement, its a slap to the face of the responsible. Corporations that didnt implement shady and unsustainable business practices felt the same way when corporations who did got bailed out.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Burncycle360

[Jeff]

 

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

In this case it is crony capitalism. Leftist institutions of higher learning have pressed allies in the Federal government to promote and provide cheap money for student loans. It was quite cynical, really. The idea was for the cheap money to be washed through student loans to the schools with eventual winners being, not the students, but the administrators and faculty of said schools. To encourage the banks to underwrite those guaranteed loans, the Federal Government agreed to make it very difficult for loan recipients to discharge their obligations through bankruptcy. School administrators win, politicians buy votes, banks break even but are seen as good citizens, with the students being the big losers. It wasn't and isn't capitalism, it was and continues to be a rigged game.

 

 

Liberals are very good at laundering tax dollars through loans, grants and federal funding to their allies to "donate" back to them. In this case, they also get the tax payer to pay for their own children's indoctrination.

[Stargrunt6]

Trump to end student loan forgiveness.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/11/trump-student-loans-forgiveness/amp/

 

IMO... this is something that seems evul but is actually ensing hypocrisy and waste.

 

 

1) people who served under the national health service corps 10-year repayment program found out the hard way that .gov tied those purse strings tight and all but renegged on the deal.

 

2) Hardly anyone is ready to pay the tax bomb from forgiveness. The large print giveth, the small print taketh away....

 

https://studentloanhero.com/news/public-service-loan-forgiveness-servicers-pslf-program-lawsuits-what-know/

Edited February 13, 2020 by Stargrunt6

[Nobu]

Bankruptcy on the basis of undue financial hardship may be the next pathway to student loan forgiveness based on recent precedent.set by the Southern District of New York U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

[Mobius]

 

 

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

In this case it is crony capitalism. Leftist institutions of higher learning have pressed allies in the Federal government to promote and provide cheap money for student loans. It was quite cynical, really. The idea was for the cheap money to be washed through student loans to the schools with eventual winners being, not the students, but the administrators and faculty of said schools. To encourage the banks to underwrite those guaranteed loans, the Federal Government agreed to make it very difficult for loan recipients to discharge their obligations through bankruptcy. School administrators win, politicians buy votes, banks break even but are seen as good citizens, with the students being the big losers. It wasn't and isn't capitalism, it was and continues to be a rigged game.

 

 

Liberals are very good at laundering tax dollars through loans, grants and federal funding to their allies to "donate" back to them. In this case, they also get the tax payer to pay for their own children's indoctrination.

 

To take a page out of Nixon's play book the government could impose wage and price controls on Colleges that accept student loan money. Professors would have to work for a minimum living wage. You know because higher education is a right so they have to provide it.

[Rick]

 

 

 

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

In this case it is crony capitalism. Leftist institutions of higher learning have pressed allies in the Federal government to promote and provide cheap money for student loans. It was quite cynical, really. The idea was for the cheap money to be washed through student loans to the schools with eventual winners being, not the students, but the administrators and faculty of said schools. To encourage the banks to underwrite those guaranteed loans, the Federal Government agreed to make it very difficult for loan recipients to discharge their obligations through bankruptcy. School administrators win, politicians buy votes, banks break even but are seen as good citizens, with the students being the big losers. It wasn't and isn't capitalism, it was and continues to be a rigged game.

 

 

Liberals are very good at laundering tax dollars through loans, grants and federal funding to their allies to "donate" back to them. In this case, they also get the tax payer to pay for their own children's indoctrination.

 

To take a page out of Nixon's play book the government could impose wage and price controls on Colleges that accept student loan money. Professors would have to work for a minimum living wage. You know because higher education is a right so they have to provide it.

 

Excellent idea!

[Stargrunt6]

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

In this case it is crony capitalism. Leftist institutions of higher learning have pressed allies in the Federal government to promote and provide cheap money for student loans. It was quite cynical, really. The idea was for the cheap money to be washed through student loans to the schools with eventual winners being, not the students, but the administrators and faculty of said schools. To encourage the banks to underwrite those guaranteed loans, the Federal Government agreed to make it very difficult for loan recipients to discharge their obligations through bankruptcy. School administrators win, politicians buy votes, banks break even but are seen as good citizens, with the students being the big losers. It wasn't and isn't capitalism, it was and continues to be a rigged game.

Liberals are very good at laundering tax dollars through loans, grants and federal funding to their allies to "donate" back to them. In this case, they also get the tax payer to pay for their own children's indoctrination.

To take a page out of Nixon's play book the government could impose wage and price controls on Colleges that accept student loan money. Professors would have to work for a minimum living wage. You know because higher education is a right so they have to provide it.

The few profs that survives the budget cuts...

[NickM]

 

 

 

 

This is how capitalism works, there is a demand for education, so the prices can rise till still enough people can pay. The border, as E5M mentioned, is blurred by loans. Some may get a job and pay back, some is not, and does not able to pay back.

 

As usual, the level of supporting services will suffer.

In this case it is crony capitalism. Leftist institutions of higher learning have pressed allies in the Federal government to promote and provide cheap money for student loans. It was quite cynical, really. The idea was for the cheap money to be washed through student loans to the schools with eventual winners being, not the students, but the administrators and faculty of said schools. To encourage the banks to underwrite those guaranteed loans, the Federal Government agreed to make it very difficult for loan recipients to discharge their obligations through bankruptcy. School administrators win, politicians buy votes, banks break even but are seen as good citizens, with the students being the big losers. It wasn't and isn't capitalism, it was and continues to be a rigged game.

Liberals are very good at laundering tax dollars through loans, grants and federal funding to their allies to "donate" back to them. In this case, they also get the tax payer to pay for their own children's indoctrination.

To take a page out of Nixon's play book the government could impose wage and price controls on Colleges that accept student loan money. Professors would have to work for a minimum living wage. You know because higher education is a right so they have to provide it.

The few profs that survives the budget cuts...

 

So are you saying we shouldn't garrote them on a stage in the middle of the Quad?

[Jeff]

If push ever came to shove, you'd have a couple of dozen Deans of Insert-your-favorite-Leftist-cause-here and one poorly paid TA giving a lecture to 20k students.

[Stargrunt6]

If push ever came to shove, you'd have a couple of dozen Deans of Insert-your-favorite-Leftist-cause-here and one poorly paid TA giving a lecture to 20k students.

The king be the king. What, you only have been a full prof for a few years? F--- your tenure, ho.