Student Loan Blues

[Rick]

Even some liberals get it.

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287656939

[Stargrunt6]

The courts and now the Senate flip the table on Devos and Dept of Ed:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/03/11/senate-overturns-student-loan-forgiveness-rule/amp/

[Skywalkre]

So the big news on reddit and my feeds yesterday was Biden's move to forgive some student debt for those who qualify.  Two thoughts came to mind when reading/hearing about it:

- My feeds/sources would probably be viewed by many on here as very Left leaning... yet even there I saw commentary from a former Obama Economic advisor calling this move "pouring $500 billion of fuel on an inflationary fire."

- At the end of the day it's a half-measure of Executive fiat that only helps some and doesn't actually address the real problem.  Where is the legislation?  Pretty sure none of us on here would be for various D proposals.  The problem is there still isn't an R proposal nor has there ever been any serious effort put in by the Rs to address this (we've talked about this off and on for years here on TN and that's always been the case).

 

[MiloMorai]

4 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

The problem is there still isn't an R proposal nor has there ever been any serious effort put in by the Rs to address this (we've talked about this off and on for years here on TN and that's always been the case).

The Rs almost never propose, they just bitch and complain.

[Skywalkre]

19 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

The Rs almost never propose, they just bitch and complain.

That's not true... I think the most likely answer is there's nothing to propose here because the folks who benefit from the status quo have the Rs bought (when it comes to this matter... both sides are bought).  Congress passes plenty of legislation every year... it's just stuff the special interests want and right now they don't want this issue addressed.

[rmgill]

40 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

The Rs almost never propose, they just bitch and complain.

Ok. I propose we levy 150% of your income and 100% of your assets to pay for student loans. Is that good for you? We take all your income and half of your future income against current studnet debt in the us. 

I don't want to hear any bitching that I don't have the legal authority NOR complaints that its not my money to take away from you. You want solutions, that's a solution. Please liquidate your assets forthwith. Payment to be made to 

Internal Revenue Service Center Austin, TX 73301-0010 U.S.A.

For the 10th time Milo. We have a president. Not a king. Not a dictator. Not a Caesar. The president doesn't have the legal authority to side line 900 Billion dollars to transfer to financial institutions to "forgive" student loans or any other loans. 

There's clear rules that Congress writes the laws and that budget bills MUST originate in the house of representatives. 

That's not bitching or complaining. That's pointing out clear law on how spending is effected.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by rmgill

[MiloMorai]

LOL Ryan. Do you remember what McConnell said?

Mitch McConnell Vows to Block Biden’s Entire Agenda Just to Be a Dick | Vanity Fair

Now did the Rs make any suggestions on how to get Uni tuition down? (for example)

24 minutes ago, rmgill said:

We have a president. Not a king. Not a dictator. Not a Caesar.

But you want a king/dictator.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by MiloMorai
spelling

[rmgill]

5 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

LOL Ryan. Do you remember what McConnel said?

Mitch McConnell Vows to Block Biden’s Entire Agenda Just to Be a Dick | Vanity Fair
 

So? Politics along side reality? 

5 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

Now did the Rs make any suggestions on how to get Uni tuition down? (for example)

 

I'd say that they were off the deep end too and were vote buying with someone else's money. 

You'll find more republicans scolding fellow republicans about this than you will Democrats objecting to the extra $900 Billion spend that Biden thinks he can just do by fiat. 

5 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

But you want a king/dictator.

No, I was fine with folks with Trump who said, no you can't do X and then he didn't. I still remember how during the middle of Covid the left and media was having heart palpitations that Trump wasn't forcing businesses to do X, Y and Z as it was exceeding federal power. 


I was quite happy with Trump being quietly told by his staff that no, he can't do X or Y or Z. Though he seems to have grasped that on his own with regards to forcing businesses.  


Face it Milo, for all the protestations of dictator, you want a strong man like Castro. You just want it to be YOUR strong man that does the things YOU want. 

[MiloMorai]

Keep travelling that Egyptian river Ryan with your near sighted, rose tinted, with horse blinker, glasses.

[DKTanker]

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

- At the end of the day it's a half-measure of Executive fiat that only helps some and doesn't actually address the real problem.  Where is the legislation?  Pretty sure none of us on here would be for various D proposals.  The problem is there still isn't an R proposal nor has there ever been any serious effort put in by the Rs to address this (we've talked about this off and on for years here on TN and that's always been the case).

 

Here's an R proposal.  Pay your own fucking debts.  If you want Uncle Sam to be your sugar daddy hit the bricks with a tin cup and beg for alms.  Lastly, grow the fuck up and act like an adult, not a lifeless clump of cells caught in perpetual childhood.  But yeah, the Marxist ideology demands from those according to their means to those according to their needs. 

[MiloMorai]

Republicans are hypocrites. Rs like MTG received $183,000 loan for her company that she doesn't have to pay back.

[EchoFiveMike]

If you don't have to pay it back, it's not a loan, it's a bribe.

I'm quite OK, enthusiastic even about banning usury and setting all these "loans" to zero interest.  That's only if the burden is on the taxpayer, if it's on some speculator or educational .org, zero it, they lose completely.  Also go back to standard bankruptcy rules for everything, no exceptions.  End speculation, end gambling.  S/F....Ken M   

[Burncycle360]

..
 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Burncycle360

[Burncycle360]

I'm not happy about it, but I'd be fine with it....  if combined with the elimination of student loan subsidies so we don't find ourselves in this position ever again.

We're 30+ trillion deep in mostly corporate bailouts and projects that will "generate growth and pay for themselves" so this may be a little Nero during the fall of Rome of me, but screw it, what's another 1.8 trillion to throw the unwashed masses a bone? Not going to change the downward trajectory of our economy that is the result of decades of gross fiscal management by both parties either way. We're neck deep in debt and ankles deep in inflation, and the upstream causes aren't even being talked about much less addressed.  Read the room, the whole place is going up, not smoking isn't going to change that.  Cross the bridge, then burn it.

What saddens me is that it's pitting citizenry against each other when their ire should be directed towards the state for creating the circumstances in which this was simply bound to happen.  I can give an 18 year old a pass for listening to their mentors who said "do it or you won't amount to anything;" what else were they going to do?  Fiscal responsibility is rarely taught in the home, and not at all in schools. Within their scope, the mentors thought they were giving the best advice they could to help their students succeed and had no idea what computers, globalization and the internet would do to the job market in the late 90s and early 2000s.  They also didn't anticipate wokeness spreading in academia as a result, or the bloating of universities with guaranteed taxpayer cheese.  That wasn't their wheelhouse. The congressmen and women who passed the student loan subsidies in the first place get no such pass, they should have known better what the downstream ramifications of their myopic policies would be.  Conservative or progressive, it benefits no one to saddle people with a lifetime of debt they cannot escape even through bankruptcy, and much of those loans will never be repaid even after garnishing their social security in their mid 60s. Seeing people drown in debt for nonsense degrees that don't translate to a useful skill or job may elicit a sense of schadenfreude, and maybe it's deserved,  but it's cutting off your nose to spite your face because at scale half the population being unsuccessful certainly isn't beneficial to the country no matter how you slice it.

My minimum recommendation would be to change the law so the the debt is subject to bankruptcy and eliminate all subsidies, but at this point I'd be fine with writing the debt off and eliminating all subsidies that isn't STEM / Medical related. 

Aside from the immediate short term and long term benefits of forgiving the debt, the other major side effect of this would be that universities would be forced to cut costs, and as trendy as it's been lately woke professors would be the first to be let go.  That alone is worth 1.8T to me, because it will be immeasurably beneficial over the span of generations to have fewer of those parasites in a position to influence our youth.


 

[DKTanker]

If you're good with it, fine, write a check.  But what or who gave Joe Biden the right to obligate me to cover the debt of a deadbeat?

Wait, I know this answer.  From each according to his ability to each according to his needs.

Edited August 26, 2022 by DKTanker

[Burncycle360]

Politicians probably figure if the first 30 trillion didn't invoke revolution, or at the very least tar and feathering, then whose fault is the next 30 trillion really? 🤪

[Stargrunt6]

After going to one of the most expensive schools for my medical education (that's of any school), I've accrued ungodly amounts of debt that would make your hard drives combust.  Yet, I don't want anyone to pay that off but me.   I'm on IBR, which means it'll get forgiven at some point, but I have to pay taxes on it, which will be astronomical.  I honestly don't think anything will get forgiven other than 1) jack  2) squat. 

I got on IBR because it was the only way to keep payments down to something I can afford.  I hope to make enough where it won't even factor and I can pay it off myself.

That's another thing, will the debtors pay taxes on what was forgiven?

What happened was high schoolers got suckered. Everyone is screaming "college college college," but not asking what they wanted to do or why.  Middle class parents turned their noses at their kids going to anything else but a university.  It became such a bougie status symbol.  Hell I think if they all got business degrees or STEM it wouldn't be a waste. But no, they went for social sciences, which all you can do is really teach.  

Somewhere along the way they needed to pivot into something else, and I don't know why they didn't.  Probably felt like they deserved better.

Oh and schools do charge too damn much. Just like mine. 

PS: why do yall bother talking to Milo?  We're all Web1.0 veterans, "don't feed the trolls."

[DKTanker]

58 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

Oh and schools do charge too damn much. Just like mine. 

With all that cheap money flowing what would be the incentive to not charge as much as they can?

Today heard a vet say how stupid he was to enlist with the promise of a GI bill when he got out.  It only cost him an arm and two legs.

Perhaps those that insist on receiving "forgiveness" of their loans should consider offering up an arm or a leg in exchange.

Edited August 26, 2022 by DKTanker

[sunday]

There have been writings about using the endowments of the respective degree-issuing universities to pay that debt. That could make a dent in the offer of useless degrees.

[Rick]

7 hours ago, Stargrunt6 said:

After going to one of the most expensive schools for my medical education (that's of any school), I've accrued ungodly amounts of debt that would make your hard drives combust.  Yet, I don't want anyone to pay that off but me.   I'm on IBR, which means it'll get forgiven at some point, but I have to pay taxes on it, which will be astronomical.  I honestly don't think anything will get forgiven other than 1) jack  2) squat. 

I got on IBR because it was the only way to keep payments down to something I can afford.  I hope to make enough where it won't even factor and I can pay it off myself.

That's another thing, will the debtors pay taxes on what was forgiven?

What happened was high schoolers got suckered. Everyone is screaming "college college college," but not asking what they wanted to do or why.  Middle class parents turned their noses at their kids going to anything else but a university.  It became such a bougie status symbol.  Hell I think if they all got business degrees or STEM it wouldn't be a waste. But no, they went for social sciences, which all you can do is really teach.  

Somewhere along the way they needed to pivot into something else, and I don't know why they didn't.  Probably felt like they deserved better.

Oh and schools do charge too damn much. Just like mine. 

PS: why do yall bother talking to Milo?  We're all Web1.0 veterans, "don't feed the trolls."

What is I.B.R.?

[Steven P Allen]

2 hours ago, Rick said:

What is I.B.R.?

Income Based Repayment.

 

All of my student loan debt was from grad school.  Yes, I got my degrees in English, but I have made a decent living at it for 30 years  now, both teaching and admin (and NO woke).  Unfortunately, because of the irresponsibility connected with my first marriage, I am still paying on an original total of ca. $45,000 with about half that to go.  Over those 30 years, I have paid almost twice the original sum.

I did not ask for this program.  I did not vote for anyone who proposed it.  Yes, schools charge too much, but none of that largess makes it to my level of the pyramid.  I work more than 40/week in the office and then teach on top of that about another 18 - 20 hrs/week.  Faculty here haven't had a raise in stipend for twelve years.

I think I will qualify, and, if I do, i would be a d@mn fool not to take advantage of it.  It won't clear my debt, and I will still have quite a bit to pay, but the reduced balance will enable me to pay it more quickly.  Yes, I made a sucker bet, and I lost.  I had/have no objection to paying in full (would that my Ex would have to help to make up for that irresponsibility!), and I remain against any such legislation.  But, given the fact that, whether I seek the forgiveness or not, the country will take the same hit, I think it stupid to place myself in a worse position by playing Holier Than Them.

 

[Stargrunt6]

10 hours ago, DKTanker said:

With all that cheap money flowing what would be the incentive to not charge as much as they can?

The BS excuse I read on FB was "schools are getting more expensive since they need to be more competitive with amenities etc."  It all comes across as bloat to me.  At my school, they got a new dean and he just hired all and sundry to work at the school. 

If they have to be that competitive, that just means there's too many schools. 

And with distance learning being all the rage, why the overhead?

10 hours ago, DKTanker said:

Today heard a vet say how stupid he was to enlist with the promise of a GI bill when he got out.  It only cost him an arm and two legs.

Perhaps those that insist on receiving "forgiveness" of their loans should consider offering up an arm or a leg in exchange.

They want others to pay for their mistake. Nobody really sat there and thought about the future. 

[rmgill]

The big fancy offices and amenities for the faculty aren't going to pay for themselves!

[NickM]

57 minutes ago, rmgill said:

The big fancy offices and amenities for the faculty aren't going to pay for themselves!

Neither are all those diversity and inclusivity office employees 

[R011]

Just now, NickM said:

Neither are all those diversity and inclusivity office employees 

Meanwhile, most of the undergrad instruction is done by grad students being paid peanuts with no job security.