Float Planes And Sea Planes

[Calvinb1nav]

Given our turn to the Pacific and anticipating distributed ops, I'm surprised the USN isn't looking at seaplanes anymore. 'Course the USN has discarded or marginalized a lot of war-winning concepts over the last few decades such as sea mines, etc.

[EvanDP]

What about amphibious helicopters. Does anyone still build boat hulled helicopters?

[bojan]

...............

Edited January 12, 2020 by bojan

[17thfabn]

Given our turn to the Pacific and anticipating distributed ops, I'm surprised the USN isn't looking at seaplanes anymore. 'Course the USN has discarded or marginalized a lot of war-winning concepts over the last few decades such as sea mines, etc.

 

You mentioned seaplanes.

 

As far as the float planes, their role was taken over by helicopters in most navies. Every thing from a frigate up in the USN carries at lease one helicopter.

[Panzermann]

 

Given our turn to the Pacific and anticipating distributed ops, I'm surprised the USN isn't looking at seaplanes anymore. 'Course the USN has discarded or marginalized a lot of war-winning concepts over the last few decades such as sea mines, etc.

 

You mentioned seaplanes.

 

As far as the float planes, their role was taken over by helicopters in most navies. Every thing from a frigate up in the USN carries at lease one helicopter.

 

 

And MPAs have enough range to take off from land. so really except in special circumstances there is not much place for float planes and flying boats anymore.

[BansheeOne]

Not to speak of ultra-long range drones like Triton. A niche seems to remain in long-range SAR though, given that the Japanese went to the expense of continuing the Shin Meiwa line with the US-2. The Chinese AG600 has also been ordered by the local coast guard in low numbers, probably to replace the capability of the Harbin SH-5 (only seven built). Between those and Beriev, they probably have the residual global market cornered.

[Leo Niehorster]

I could think of potential customers, such as Indonesia, Australia, India, Vietnam, Thailand.

 

--

Leo

[Markus Becker]

Given our turn to the Pacific and anticipating distributed ops, I'm surprised the USN isn't looking at seaplanes anymore. 'Course the USN has discarded or marginalized a lot of war-winning concepts over the last few decades such as sea mines, etc.

Airfields. Before the war there were not that many of them. Sheltered bays and lagoons were plentiful and needed comparatively little investment to operate seaplanes from.

[BansheeOne]

I could think of potential customers, such as Indonesia, Australia, India, Vietnam, Thailand.

 

--

Leo

Yeah, India has been dithering about signing an order for the US-2 for several years now in typical Indian fashion. Thailand and Indonesia are reportedly also interested, and the type also seems in the running to replace the aging Greek firefighter fleet. Malaysia and New Zealand have expressed interest in the AG600.

Edited January 13, 2020 by BansheeOne

[JasonJ]

A weak point towards selling the US-2 is that it is quite expensive and was a sticky point with India. The negotiations over a sale seemed to have ended with no sale. In February 2017, MOD began studying the development for a successor which would emphasize reduced cost and larger production run and include a civilian version. As of November 2019, MOD has started recruiting for those that want to participate it its development.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Speaking of Japanese waterborne aircraft, I was always much impressed by this machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A

 

Amusingly one of the Biggles stories features a machine rather like this. I can only assume they were fans in prewar Japan....

[JasonJ]

Speaking of Japanese waterborne aircraft, I was always much impressed by this machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A

 

Amusingly one of the Biggles stories features a machine rather like this. I can only assume they were fans in prewar Japan....

Biggles looks like a big series. How was that floatplane-look-a-like potrayed in the story? Fan in what way?

[Nobu]

Speaking of Japanese waterborne aircraft, I was always much impressed by this machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A

Fascinating that they were painted in USN colors and bearing USN white stars on their wings for their intended final mission.

 

I would have preferred they were not, actually.

[Leo Niehorster]

Maybe offering joint manufacturing a-la Airbus to interested parties might lower the cost per unit, or at least offer an incentive.

 

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Leo

[Panzermann]

A weak point towards selling the US-2 is that it is quite expensive and was a sticky point with India. The negotiations over a sale seemed to have ended with no sale. In February 2017, MOD began studying the development for a successor which would emphasize reduced cost and larger production run and include a civilian version. As of November 2019, MOD has started recruiting for those that want to participate it its development.

 

No wonder. All the japanese military gear is good quality, but low manufacturing numbers skyrocketing the prices. The Beriev planes or something from China are certainly cheaper options. A country to add to the list of potential buyers of new sea planes is the Philippines with its many islands. Micronesian countries could make use of one too, but cannot afford to buy. Or i nthe carribean. But again, rather poor countries.

[JasonJ]

Maybe offering joint manufacturing a-la Airbus to interested parties might lower the cost per unit, or at least offer an incentive.

--

Leo

During the later stages in the negotiations with India, there was shift to satsifying Modi's "build in India" program in which some degree of asssembly would take place in India. But wasn't enough.

 

While not said specifically but I'd imagine the tooling up of facilities and training new Indian staff for the manufacturing would add new costs.

 

The plane was just simply made when there was no expectation to sell abroad. Selling large military equipment was not even legal when US-2 was developed.

[JasonJ]

 

A weak point towards selling the US-2 is that it is quite expensive and was a sticky point with India. The negotiations over a sale seemed to have ended with no sale. In February 2017, MOD began studying the development for a successor which would emphasize reduced cost and larger production run and include a civilian version. As of November 2019, MOD has started recruiting for those that want to participate it its development.

 

No wonder. All the japanese military gear is good quality, but low manufacturing numbers skyrocketing the prices. The Beriev planes or something from China are certainly cheaper options. A country to add to the list of potential buyers of new sea planes is the Philippines with its many islands. Micronesian countries could make use of one too, but cannot afford to buy. Or i nthe carribean. But again, rather poor countries.

Yeah. We'll see how things go with US-3 or whatever it gets called.

Edited January 13, 2020 by JasonJ

[Nobu]

No wonder. All the japanese military gear is good quality, but low manufacturing numbers skyrocketing the prices. The Beriev planes or something from China are certainly cheaper options. A country to add to the list of potential buyers of new sea planes is the Philippines with its many islands. Micronesian countries could make use of one too, but cannot afford to buy. Or i nthe carribean. But again, rather poor countries.

 

 

Managing cost and finding the right customer base are areas in which Japan must improve on to carve out a place for itself in the global arms sales market. That it has not yet been able to manage either is frustratng.

 

Putting quality equipment in the hands of those unequipped to handle or maintain it can be as well.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Nobu

[Colin]

My hometown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHApAWHO_bc

[Stuart Galbraith]

I saw this on youtube this morning, and I figured it might be of some interest. Shame it doesnt land on water though.

[Leo Niehorster]

Lovely model. Unfortunately, it wasn't built to land on water.

[MiloMorai]

Spruce Goose

​

https://youtu.be/8ZC-NHaLisI

[Stuart Galbraith]

Nice. Im sure Howard Hughes would have loved that.

[BansheeOne]

I wish I could find back that chart of permissible sea states for operating the CL-415 I once saw. The essential point, somewhat obvious if you think about it, was that it's not just about height, but also length of waves. IIRC, even ten-foot waves are manageable if tops are a hundred meters or so apart. Which puts simpler claims like "can operate in waves of so much height" in Perspektive.

Oh I found it; it's part of this spec sheet. Apparently even twelve-feet waves are doable with 150 meters between tops.

[futon]

Some US air group personnel get a little training on the US-2 during recent joint-training.