JasonJ Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 And possibly the mass murder gets written off as an accident with an apology by the murderer and now everyone is happy.
DKTanker Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51077788 What have Iran's leaders said?How could be protests and calls for resignation be heard in Tehran, when we all heard here from our US members that the Religious Police kills, beats, and gulags everyone dissent? https://therightscoop.com/iran-violently-putting-down-protests-of-citizens-protesting-against-the-regime/ Example:#BREAKING: Reports: British ambassador in Tehran arrested tonight while photographing the protests against the downing of the Ukrainian plane. Edited January 12, 2020 by DKTanker
Nobu Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) The Iranian street appears to be on edge at the events of the past week. The window is still open for more pressure, to perhaps push it off. Edited January 12, 2020 by Nobu
Simon Tan Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Oh to be a fly on the wall amongst the Council of Guardians. The Sepah having to mea culpa is illuminating. This means Supreme Leader is making them own it. This is unprecedented.
Stuart Galbraith Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Am I right in believing Tor is a battlefield weapon, like Buk?Because one of the early accounts talked of a noise coming directly from the barracks. Which implies the unit was actually parked IN the barrack, and was not part of the established network (The Sam 2s and Sa5s) that was coordinating with ATC. They may just have lit up in a panic. Not battlefield weapon “like BUK” (TOR is not supposed to be operating where bullets fly, but at least could engage air targets while on move –while BUK is supposed to operate from standby position as part of vehicles set linked by cables as far as I remember) , but both of them are not supposed to operate in peacetime conditions under intensive air traffic route. Attempts to use relatively cheap mobile SAMs as “strategic” air defense (like Ukraine did and like Iranisns atttempted to), without sophisticated (and expensive) command system constantly linking them to command HQ with multiple sources of information is short way to trouble. For illustration - rare video of BUK in real combat position in combat zone TOR firing on move I would have done better to have used the word 'Tactical'. The Tor and Buk were designed for air defence of a division, and were therefore fairly easy to setup and move. Its not like the S300 which was semi permanently emplaced in one location, so always would have a setup radio net. AD isnt my area I would be the first to admit, though the subject does interest me.
Der Zeitgeist Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 What "bullshit." It is a fact that Obama gave Iran over $1billion in cold cash. Now you can argue that the money, released from frozen assets, always belonged to Iran. But the money was frozen for a reason and should have remained frozen. But that wouldn't have allowed kickbacks to Team Obama and his Euro buddies. We've been through all of this back when the US withdrew from JCPOA, no need to repeat the same old arguments over and over again. If the US thinks it will find something better than JCPOA to keep the Iranian nuclear program in check, that's fine. But don't expect everyone else to go along with it while you guys stumble around trying to find a strategy.
Stuart Galbraith Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/irans-olympic-medalist-kimia-alizadeh-says-shes-defected/ar-BBYRYCoIran's sole female Olympic medalist Kimia Alizadeh announced that she has permanently left her country for Europe.
Stuart Galbraith Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51077788 What have Iran's leaders said?How could be protests and calls for resignation be heard in Tehran, when we all heard here from our US members that the Religious Police kills, beats, and gulags everyone dissent? https://therightscoop.com/iran-violently-putting-down-protests-of-citizens-protesting-against-the-regime/ Example:#BREAKING: Reports: British ambassador in Tehran arrested tonight while photographing the protests against the downing of the Ukrainian plane. Only for an hour as it turned out. Though im all for arresting theirs on trumped up charges, just to see how they like it.
JasonJ Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Oh to be a fly on the wall amongst the Council of Guardians. The Sepah having to mea culpa is illuminating. This means Supreme Leader is making them own it. This is unprecedented.Well, the head of the aerospace branch of Sepah made the public apology, not the chief of Sepah.
Stuart Galbraith Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) The problem is when this ship of fools finally runs aground, there will sure to be another one waiting to take its place. Edited January 12, 2020 by Stuart Galbraith
Adam Peter Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/irans-olympic-medalist-kimia-alizadeh-says-shes-defected/ar-BBYRYCoIran's sole female Olympic medalist Kimia Alizadeh announced that she has permanently left her country for Europe.Didn't they detained and shot her on her way out? Unheard! I wore whatever they said. Good luck wearing what you want in the world of sponsorship contracts.
Burncycle360 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Need to gauge how much of the population supports supreme leader, how much do not but must appear as if they do for their safety or livelihood, how many are protesting supreme leader and how many would if it were safe to do so. Luckily we have the best mainstream news organizations and journalists in the world who would never minimize the deeds of a radical fundamentalist theocratic regime who would kill an LGBQT person just as fast as they could identify them in order to take a swing at Trump.Why, our Dems and various humanitarian relief organizations around the world are so sensical and objective that there must be furiously tweeting and releasing public statements in support of the Iranian people wanting to cast off the chains of oppression and lies.Oh wait...As it turns out, pro statists give other authoritarian regimes leeway as a professional courtesy even if they aren't a fan of the religious part Edited January 12, 2020 by Burncycle360
BansheeOne Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) By now the admission doesn't look so pro-active anymore. Furious protesters call for Iran's Supreme Leader to step down in wake of downed Ukrainian plane Issued on: 12/01/2020 - 08:54Modified: 12/01/2020 - 08:54 Text by: NEWS WIRES Iranian protesters and newspapers piled pressure on the country's leadership and riot police stepped up their presence in Tehran on Sunday after Irans military admitted that it had mistakenly shot down a Ukrainian airliner. Riot police fired teargas at thousands of Iranians who had taken to the streets late on Saturday in the capital and other cities, many chanting "Death to the dictator", directing their anger at Iran's top authority, Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. Images and reports of the protests were carried by state-affiliated news agencies, alongside videos on social media. Tehran residents told Reuters that police had stepped up their presence in the capital on Sunday morning. "Apologise and resign", Iran's moderate Etemad daily wrote in a banner headline on Sunday, saying the "people's demand" was for those responsible for mishandling the plane crisis to quit. [...] Protests erupted after Saturday's admission that the military accidentally shot down the Ukraine International Airlines plane minutes after take-off on Wednesday, when Iranian forces were alert for U.S. reprisals after tit-for-tat strikes. For days, Iranian officials had vigorously denied it was to blame, even as Canada, which had 57 citizens on the flight, and the United States said their intelligence indicated an Iranian missile was to blame, albeit probably fired in error. Irans president said it was a "disastrous mistake" and apologised. But a top Revolutionary Guards commander added to public anger about the delayed admission, when he said he had told the authorities a missile hit the plane the day it crashed. Challenges Another moderate daily Jomhuri-ye Eslami, or Islamic Republic, wrote in an editorial: "Those who delayed publishing the reason behind the plane crash and damaged peoples trust in the establishment should be dismissed or should resign." Criticism of the authorities in Iran is not unusual, but it tends to stay in narrow boundaries. The press attacks and protests add to challenges facing the establishment, which in November faced the country's bloodiest unrest since the 1979 Islamic revolution. [...] 'Horrific' On Jan. 3, a U.S. drone strike in Iraq killed prominent Iranian commander Qassem Soleimani, responsible for building up Irans network of regional proxy armies in Iraq and beyond, and Tehran responded with missile strikes on U.S. targets in Iraq. No U.S. soldiers were killed, but in the tense hours after that, the Ukrainian Boeing 737 was cleared to take off from Tehran airport and then brought down by a missile fired in error by an operator who mistook the plane for an attacker. "Shooting down a civilian aircraft is horrific. Iran must take full responsibility", Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said. Trudeau said Iranian President Hassan Rouhani had committed to collaborating with Canadian investigators, working to de-escalate tensions in the region and continuing a dialogue. Public fury at Irans authorities grew as questions about the plane crash mounted. Iranians on social media asked why officials were busy fending off criticism from abroad rather than sympathising with grieving families. Others asked why the plane was allowed to take off at a time of high tension. Amirali Hajizadeh, a senior commander of the Revolutionary Guards, a parallel military set up to defend the nation and the system of theocratic rule, said he had asked for civilian planes to be grounded but his request was not heeded. Soleimani's death in a U.S. drone strike had drawn huge crowds of mourners on to the streets in Iran, which Iranian officials said showed public support for the leadership. But Saturday's protests and the public reaction to the downed airliner have shattered the image of national solidarity. Demonstrators tore up pictures of the slain general.https://www.france24.com/en/20200112-students-gather-tehran-mourn-victims-protest-iran-officials-response-downed-plane Edited January 12, 2020 by BansheeOne
Burncycle360 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 "Supreme Leader, the people, they're revolting!""Why they most certainly are..."
Nobu Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Iran deserves a lot better. Iran and Iranians are coming to terms with their pride, and the exposure of their incompetence to the world. They have been the beneficiary of vast resource wealth for generations, and this is the result? Iran and Iranians may be getting what they deserve. Edited January 12, 2020 by Nobu
Ivanhoe Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 As it turns out, pro statists give other authoritarian regimes leeway as a professional courtesy even if they aren't a fan of the religious part Keep in mind that the west's left wing is now staunchly in favor of Islam. The whole anti-religious thing is solely because of Christianity and Judaism. At some point they will become enemies of Sikhs, Jains, etc. but we haven't gotten there just yet.
Jeff Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 Golnaz Esfandiari@GEsfandiari[video in tweet]Students at Tehran’s Beheshti university avoid walking on U.S. and Israeli flags painted at entrance. Via@mamlekate6:30 AM · Jan 12, 2020https://twitter.com/GEsfandiari/status/1216321586376183811
DKTanker Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 First Canada's boy PM implies that the US was responsible for the shoot down of the Ukrainian 737, now he is doubting Iran's claim it was an accidental shoot down. Connecting the dots, is Trudeau implying a Trump/Iran collusion was responsible?
Stuart Galbraith Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 He is saying Trump framed the circumstances in which it all happened. Which, tenuously, he did, if you accept this all started with Soleimani getting a Hellfire enema. The whole thing reminds me of KAL007, and illustrates just what I meant much earlier by war by accident.
RETAC21 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 He is saying Trump framed the circumstances in which it all happened. Which, tenuously, he did, if you accept this all started with Soleimani getting a Hellfire enema. The whole thing reminds me of KAL007, and illustrates just what I meant much earlier by war by accident. Which he got because behind all of the Iranian mischief??
Burncycle360 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Starting at Soleimani implies that we just hellfire random people for the hell of it. The latest round of tensions was initiated by Soleimanis militia in Iraq which killed a contractor, which resulted in air strikes on said militia, which caused an embassy to be besieged, which was kept in check by US Marines which resulted in a promise to come back and finish the job, which resulted in blowing up their handler. Of course if you dont like that because it implies the US reacted rather than caused the problems, you can go all the way back to the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses and just say the US shouldnt have been there in the first place. There is a narrative to suit whatever people prefer
Ivanhoe Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Starting at Soleimani implies that we just hellfire random people for the hell of it. The latest round of tensions was initiated by Soleimanis militia in Iraq which killed a contractor, which resulted in air strikes on said militia, which caused an embassy to be besieged, which was kept in check by US Marines which resulted in a promise to come back and finish the job, which resulted in blowing up their handler. Of course if you dont like that because it implies the US reacted rather than caused the problems, you can go all the way back to the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses and just say the US shouldnt have been there in the first place. There is a narrative to suit whatever people prefer But then you must continue pulling at the thread back through the two 20C Shahs, working backwards through the conquest by Czarist Russia, etc etc.
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