Israeli Afvs

[Rick]

Didn't Israel convert a tank into an armored personal carrier?

[Mighty_Zuk]

Didn't Israel convert a tank into an armored personal carrier?

In what context are you asking this? Because Israel did convert T-55 and Centurion tanks to APCs, and used the Merkava chassis as a basis for an APC.

[Rick]

From memory, I think it was the T55. Have not paid that much attention, but I do not recall seeing or hearing about these conversions.

Do not know if Israel considered them effective.

[RETAC21]

Numbers of tanks seem right. The Merkava was produced at a rate of 1 battalion per year, not brigade.

Number of armored divisions does not seem right. There were a total of 9 armored divisions at the IDF's peak, not 11. I do not know about the number of armored infantry brigades, but these were usually 2 per division, one active and one reserve, so it seems about right.

 

What seems odd is that today there are a total of 11 divisions in the IDF, some not containing armor, and 19 infantry brigades, including light ones. Either a funny coincidence or the author made a mistake.

 

The 4,200 number refers to the total number of tanks the IDF has in its posession, though now you can add another 100 to that number. Most of these are already retired, but about a decade or 2 ago, when many more brigades were active, and Magach and Merkava 2 were abundant, most of these were used.

 

And last but not least, the maximum number of brigades in the armored corps was 39, not 43. That includes all brigades that were shut down, and all active ones. I'm not sure if there was a time where they all existed simultaneously.

 

At about 90 tanks per brigade, you get about 3,500 tanks in service.

 

Today the IDF armored corps has only around 1,100 tanks in service left, of which about 1,000 are Merkava 3 and 4 tanks.

 

Thanks! that makes more sense than a sudden increase!

[Ssnake]

There was the Achzarit, a T-55 conversion, later to be replaced by the Namera (Merkava hull) if I understand this correctly.

[Mighty_Zuk]

There was the Achzarit, a T-55 conversion, later to be replaced by the Namera (Merkava hull) if I understand this correctly.

Achzarit, Nagmachon (and derivatives), then the Achzarit Mk.2, then the M60 were tested for that role but also failed, and then the Namer production began.

First as refurbished Mark 2 tanks, but serial variant was already new built hulls based on a mix from Mark 3 and 4.

[EvanDP]

 

There was the Achzarit, a T-55 conversion, later to be replaced by the Namera (Merkava hull) if I understand this correctly.

Achzarit, Nagmachon (and derivatives), then the Achzarit Mk.2, then the M60 were tested for that role but also failed, and then the Namer production began.

First as refurbished Mark 2 tanks, but serial variant was already new built hulls based on a mix from Mark 3 and 4.

 

Any info on the M60 tests?

[Mighty_Zuk]

Only available data is this photo:

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/6d/8f/b56d8f19088538da9bb459d350052621.jpg

 

EDIT: Says it's M48, not M60. For some reason when I read Magach I instantly thought M60. Admittedly, I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between M48 and M60 hulls.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Mighty_Zuk

[RETAC21]

Error 403 Forbidden

Forbidden

Guru Mediation:

 

it's sekret

[Mighty_Zuk]

Error 403 Forbidden

Forbidden Guru Mediation:

 

it's sekret

Should be fixed now.

[DogDodger]

Only available data is this photo:

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/6d/8f/b56d8f19088538da9bb459d350052621.jpg

 

EDIT: Says it's M48, not M60. For some reason when I read Magach I instantly thought M60. Admittedly, I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between M48 and M60 hulls.

Looking at the suspension, I would've agreed with you.

[Tim Sielbeck]

Looking at the flat bottom of the original hull I say it's M60 based. M48s have a rounded hull top and bottom.

[DKTanker]

Only available data is this photo:

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/6d/8f/b56d8f19088538da9bb459d350052621.jpg

 

EDIT: Says it's M48, not M60. For some reason when I read Magach I instantly thought M60. Admittedly, I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between M48 and M60 hulls.

That's an M60 hull. The fenders, front and rear, are the first tip off, though I suppose you could cobble M60 fenders on to an M48. What you can't do, though is change the shape of the hull. The front of the M48 hull maintains its curve all the way to the first roadwheel stations, this vehicle has a lower front hull that is flat top to bottom and side to side. That makes it an M60.

[WRW]

I am trying and failing to locate a photo that I have seen of an IDF M48 or M60 with turret replace by an obsevration platform that can be raised to peek over the border walls.

 

what happened all the M60 types that have been fairly recently withdrawn? surely not scrapped

 

also the Merkava 1s - saw pic of one converted tp Command vehicle.

 

would they be useful as mortar carriers or medical vehicles?

[wendist]

​

Magach "something" Akrab

[Burncycle360]

I've seen some pictures but it's difficult to get a sense of scale -- if the additional ammunition were removed from the rear hull of the Merkava IV, is there sufficient room to sit upright in those spaces? How about a stretcher without running into the turret basket?

Edited January 28, 2020 by Burncycle360

[Mighty_Zuk]

You can place a stretcher or two, and you could sit upright if your legs were straight. But that would be a great way to stop your blood flow to the legs. The alternative is a slav squat.

Either way, leaning on the wall is a no-go, because it has huge spikes that hold ammunition containers.

[bojan]

...The alternative is a slav squat...

Knew that Israelis are honorary Slavs

[Burncycle360]

Nobody expects commandos sponsored by adidas!

[Mighty_Zuk]

News just came in that the IDF signed a contract with Rafael for the supply of Fire Weaver systems. These are the next generation of BMS and are capable of vastly reducing engagement times.

 

2017 - first test of an early prototype.

2018 - battalion level exercise.

2021 - ending of development and delivery for final tests.

2022 - operational with the infantry units.

 

When they say infantry, I assume they just mean they are the first to get them, not that they're the only ones.

 

Rafael is offering the Fire Weaver as a system essential to its All in One RWS, and it's likely to be in service with tanks and other AFVs in the future.

[Mighty_Zuk]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-announces-serial-production-of-new-advanced-eitan-apc/

 

Eitan production begins, will enter service in late 2021.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Little update, the Eitan will be using MTU engines, which beat Caterpillar in the competition.

Each Eitan will cost $3 million, and 50% of its parts will be produced in the US (previous reports said 60%-70%)

[JasonJ]

Looks like a good upgrade from the M113s.

[Mighty_Zuk]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/from-waze-of-war-to-a-general-devoted-to-countering-iran-the-idfs-new-plan/

 

IDF to shut down 1 reserve tank brigade that is operating Merkava 2 tanks (last one), going down to 11 tank brigades in total (4 active, rest reserve).

Nahal brigade started first exercises with the Eitan.

Unfortunately nothing yet on the howitzer, on which the IDF is being suspiciously silent. Unlike in the west, if the IDF cancels a project, it usually does so silently.

[WRW]

What happens to the reservists in the disbanded brigades - are they reassigned to other tank units?

 

Also the vehicles?