17thfabn Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 In the 130+ years of machine gun use there have been several methods of cooling machine gun barrels: Early on water jackets were used. This was effective but heavy. The French Hotchkiss machine gun used large cooling rings around the barrel. The Lewis gun had an aluminum barrel shroud. The design was supposed to pull air across the barrel to increase cooling. Heavy barrels were used. How effective the last three methods were is debatable. None of these methods seems to have much use today. The multi barrel guns are not really machine guns since they use external power so are not part of this discussion. Was the barrel shroud on the U.S. M1919 series supposed to aid in cooling? Modern machine guns tend to emphasize weight reduction. But for vehicle mounted guns this is not so important. They could have any of these systems added if they were truly worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 ZSU-23-4 Has / had water cooled barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 The air cooled machine guns I've seen have noticably heavier barrels than do rifles. It's even in the designation of the M2HB. Even so, those barrels need too be changed every couple of belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 You can go crazy heavy with the barrels. as did some WW1 French, and French usage MGs. It seemed to work out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Quick-change barre!s is also a cooling solution.Does the 'HB' in relation to the M2 .50 mean 'Heavy Barrel' or ' Hydraulic Buffer'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17thfabn Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 Quick-change barre!s is also a cooling solution.Does the 'HB' in relation to the M2 .50 mean 'Heavy Barrel' or ' Hydraulic Buffer'? Heavy Barrel. Yes quick change barrels help with heat removal. But think of a machine gunner in a humvee machine gun ring mount in the middle of a gun fire fight. No matter how well a quick change barrel is designed it is still tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Quick-change barre!s is also a cooling solution.Does the 'HB' in relation to the M2 .50 mean 'Heavy Barrel' or ' Hydraulic Buffer'? Heavy Barrel. Yes quick change barrels help with heat removal. But think of a machine gunner in a humvee machine gun ring mount in the middle of a gun fire fight. No matter how well a quick change barrel is designed it is still tough. Yes, with an M240, having to reach up and over the receiver to wrestle with a hot barrel is awkward at best and dangerous at worst. The MG42/MG3 shines here; the barrel can be easily changed from behind the gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARGEAN Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Heavy barrels are still kinda used. Not all multibarrel MGs use external power, both GShG and YakB-12,7 are internally powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Quick-change barre!s is also a cooling solution.Does the 'HB' in relation to the M2 .50 mean 'Heavy Barrel' or ' Hydraulic Buffer'? Heavy Barrel. Yes quick change barrels help with heat removal. But think of a machine gunner in a humvee machine gun ring mount in the middle of a gun fire fight. No matter how well a quick change barrel is designed it is still tough. Yes, with an M240, having to reach up and over the receiver to wrestle with a hot barrel is awkward at best and dangerous at worst. The MG42/MG3 shines here; the barrel can be easily changed from behind the gun But the MG42 does not have a convenient handle for the hot barrel. There is a heat resistant mitten in the ancilliary equipment for the MG42 (or 3 or 74 or...). The receiver also heats up over time making the door(?) on the side jam and stick and you have to really jank it to open and bash it to close. One time on a firing range we had to pull the MG3 into our prepared foxhole to really hammer at it to open the port. And then juggle the hot barrel of course. In contrast a FN MAG or MG5 has a big handle to "manhandle" the barrel. All has its advantages and disadvantages. btw current production from FN is the M2HB-QCB. Offered since the sixties. The US Army only introduced the quick-change barrel kit a few years ago as the M2 A1. Improvements at the speed of bureaucracy. Heavy barrels are still kinda used. Not all multibarrel MGs use external power, both GShG and YakB-12,7 are internally powered. Wanted to point those two out as well. They are powered by the gases from the powder charge and even have a magazine for starting blanks to spin up the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 "But the MG42 does not have a convenient handle for the hot barrel. There is a heat resistant mitten in the ancilliary equipment for the MG42 (or 3 or 74 or...). The receiver also heats up over time making the door(?) on the side jam and stick and you have to really jank it to open and bash it to close. One time on a firing range we had to pull the MG3 into our prepared foxhole to really hammer at it to open the port. And then juggle the hot barrel of course. In contrast a FN MAG or MG5 has a big handle to "manhandle" the barrel. All has its advantages and disadvantages."--PanzermannSo true...I have heard that MG42 gunners on the Eastern Front often had badly burned hands from barrel changes in the heat of battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 No room for a handle:https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2ceba47970c5e2e44d7bfcc822077a33.webp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Locally crews during wars used piece of the bent wire to "fish out" barrel.PKMs handle is great, as it offers leverage when removing barrel, which is important when gun is gunked) but is still needs someone to reach over the receiver.6 or one, half dozen of other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) The port door also has a bit of leverage as can be seen on the photo linked by JWB. "But the MG42 does not have a convenient handle for the hot barrel. There is a heat resistant mitten in the ancilliary equipment for the MG42 (or 3 or 74 or...). The receiver also heats up over time making the door(?) on the side jam and stick and you have to really jank it to open and bash it to close. One time on a firing range we had to pull the MG3 into our prepared foxhole to really hammer at it to open the port. And then juggle the hot barrel of course. In contrast a FN MAG or MG5 has a big handle to "manhandle" the barrel. All has its advantages and disadvantages."--PanzermannSo true...I have heard that MG42 gunners on the Eastern Front often had badly burned hands from barrel changes in the heat of battle. I must add that a heat resistant mitten is part of the tools that come with each MG42 (or 3). But in the heat of battle that can get amiss. No room for a handle:https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2ceba47970c5e2e44d7bfcc822077a33.webp ALso the barrel moves when the action cycles. A handle moving out side while firing is not a good idea I think. Another advantage of this design is, that stacking and transporting the spare barrels is easier, because there are no handles sticking out. Edited October 21, 2019 by Panzermann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17thfabn Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Heavy barrels are still kinda used. Not all multibarrel MGs use external power, both GShG and YakB-12,7 are internally powered. Does any machine gun besides the M2 .50 cal use a heavy barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KV7 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Heavy barrels are still kinda used. Not all multibarrel MGs use external power, both GShG and YakB-12,7 are internally powered. Does any machine gun besides the M2 .50 cal use a heavy barrel? IIRC most LMG derived from assault or battle rifles will have a heavier (and of course longer) barrel than the rifle version. Edited October 22, 2019 by KV7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARGEAN Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Wanted to point those two out as well. They are powered by the gases from the powder charge and even have a magazine for starting blanks to spin up the action.Mixing up with GSh-6-23 maybe? YakB had spring starter loaded by firing (which made it a spooky bitch to disassemble), don't exactly remember GShG type but not pyrostarters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARGEAN Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Does any machine gun besides the M2 .50 cal use a heavy barrel?I think PKP can be said to use one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Forced air cooling. Like Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Is there any reliable evidence that the Lewis jacket was effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Other than acting as an additional metal to spread a heat around? Kinda sorta. I doubt Russians would adopt it for Pecheneg if it did not work at all, but if it had some spectacular results we would probably see more widespread use. OTOH, Russins had more "free" weight to play, PKP is 8.2kg vs 7.5kg for PKM. Adding it to MAG would be making it 12+kg weight. Edited October 23, 2019 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Heavy barrels are still kinda used. Not all multibarrel MGs use external power, both GShG and YakB-12,7 are internally powered. Does any machine gun besides the M2 .50 cal use a heavy barrel? Yeah, the French AA-52 / F-1 medium machine gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 IIRC Czech UK vz.59 also has light and heavy barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I've seen video of British machine guns crews using wire stands to support cooling barrels as they are changed out in rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Pouring water on them is a time honored tradition (if water is widely available, if not other sources of water were used ). Local rifle tests from the '60s had part with "forced cooling" (after firing certain amount of rounds) - both in the water and crushed ice (representing snow), to see if it damages barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Pouring water on them is a time honored tradition (if water is widely available, if not other sources of water were used ). Local rifle tests from the '60s had part with "forced cooling" (after firing certain amount of rounds) - both in the water and crushed ice (representing snow), to see if it damages barrel. I heard one soldier mention that, during cold-weather training in Norway, they had to be very careful where they placed hot barrels or they could sink right through the snowpack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now