Dawes Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Guess there's still life in the old girl yet: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/09/17/hk-awarded-contract-to-upgrade-british-sa80a3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Or polishing a turd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Or polishing a turd The A2 seems to be at least a useable rifle. So with german space magic cou actually can polish a turd. On a more serious note, H&K is the logical choice, as they already performed the A2 improvements (actually rebuilds). Fiscally responsible would have been a replacement with anew rifle already back then, but try to get that through MoD and parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) Only "Kraut Space Magic" needed was some quality control and some changes by someone who actually saw some sort of rifle before designing it (most of the SA80 design team was not specialist in firearms...)... That abomination is AR-18 inside, and we know that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with AR-18.In the end it would have been easier and cheaper to get new rifles at the time of the first rebuild. Only problem, would have probably ended with G36... Oops. Oh, and lets' don't mention (too much) UK Minimi acquisition, where people on the pointy end prefered hauling 12kg of FN-MAG vs Minimi, cause Minimis were falling apart and did not have enough effective range in Afghanistan. Guess it was better than L86A1 at least... Edited September 18, 2019 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 It almost certainly just means more A3s. 45000 in the first batch is nowhere near enough to go round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 refresher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDCRop6CRwY&t=458s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregShaw Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Or polishing a turd Lipstick on a pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 So it sounds like the only remaining bits from original rifle will be the lower receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Maybe Colt Canada could make a few minor mods: just change the barrel, receiver, magazines, furniture, and rails to something compatible with the rifles the British special forces use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I believe Colt Canada fixed it for British special forces by replacing everything except the mags... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I believe Colt Canada fixed it for British special forces by replacing everything except the mags... No, it was H&K and they DID change the mags to their own steel magazines Those mags were then subsequently replaced by Magpul E-mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.Exactly What Shep said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.Exactly The US SF also went for their own rifles, then partially backtracked cancelling the SCAR-L. Even then they had the M4A1 as general issue long before the rest of the Army. Unsurprisingly, the SF's requirements were different - particularly to fire a larger number of rounds full auto in a shorter time to break contact with the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Unlike the British with L85A1 US had a functional rifle for the people not in SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin-Phillips Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I've recently finished reading the book Operation Mayhem by Steve Heaney and Damien Lewis; there is certainly no end of comments in there about how much the SA80 is much maligned by the soldiers using it. Discussing anything from the sights fogging up to the weapon rusting at a visible pace. A great read that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 refresher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDCRop6CRwY&t=458sYou may have to dig around the Tubes a bit, but Ian did a number of videos on the L85 and its development. It's enlightening viewing.----RE: Big Army adoption of the M4 over the M16...I think there's at least a bit of 'cool gear' envy driving the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Maybe, but it was also a reality of finally understanding that weight and compactness matter far more than range performances at 500+m and that rifles are basically used as PDWs today, so nothing of note was lost with M16->M4 transition. One of the few things US has done (relatively) recently that actually makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Unlike the British with L85A1 US had a functional rifle for the people not in SF. It would have made a lot more sense and saved a fortune to go entirely C7/8 with the rest of the armed forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 This are the same army that stuck with that horrible engine in the Chieftain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) In their defense there were advantages for L60 in Chieftain compared to other solutions. There was zero advantages for L85 when it was introduced compared to any other 5.56 rifle.If they really wanted bullpup Brits should have adopted FAMAS Edited September 22, 2019 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 In their defense there were advantages for L60 in Chieftain compared to other solutions. There was zero advantages for L85 when it was introduced compared to any other 5.56 rifle.If they really wanted bullpup Brits should have adopted FAMAS That would have led us down another evolutionary dead end Late edit: What is really annoying is that we were a (very) early adopter of the AR15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) It worked unlike L85 and "dead end" does not really matter if you replace rifles every 20-30 years anyway, as you should. Or Steyr AUG, available since 1977, since you were dead set on bullpup back then. Edited September 22, 2019 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 It worked unlike L85 and "dead end" does not really matter if you replace rifles every 20-30 years anyway, as you should. Or Steyr AUG, available since 1977, since you were dead set on bullpup back then. Well, the Falkland Islands Defence Force were offered the L85 and went for the AUG and still have it in service - albeit they are only now transitioning to the L85A2. They still get to choose some of their own kit. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2188111254792305&id=2094635694139862 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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