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Another H&k Upgrade Program For The Sa80


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Or polishing a turd :)

 

The A2 seems to be at least a useable rifle. So with german space magic cou actually can polish a turd. ^_^

 

 

On a more serious note, H&K is the logical choice, as they already performed the A2 improvements (actually rebuilds). Fiscally responsible would have been a replacement with anew rifle already back then, but try to get that through MoD and parliament.

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Only "Kraut Space Magic" needed was some quality control and some changes by someone who actually saw some sort of rifle before designing it (most of the SA80 design team was not specialist in firearms...)... :P That abomination is AR-18 inside, and we know that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with AR-18.

In the end it would have been easier and cheaper to get new rifles at the time of the first rebuild. Only problem, would have probably ended with G36... Oops. :)

Oh, and lets' don't mention (too much) UK Minimi acquisition, where people on the pointy end prefered hauling 12kg of FN-MAG vs Minimi, cause Minimis were falling apart and did not have enough effective range in Afghanistan. Guess it was better than L86A1 at least...

Edited by bojan
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I believe Colt Canada fixed it for British special forces by replacing everything except the mags... ;)

 

No, it was H&K and they DID change the mags to their own steel magazines :) Those mags were then subsequently replaced by Magpul E-mags.

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IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.

Exactly ;)

 

 

The US SF also went for their own rifles, then partially backtracked cancelling the SCAR-L. Even then they had the M4A1 as general issue long before the rest of the Army. Unsurprisingly, the SF's requirements were different - particularly to fire a larger number of rounds full auto in a shorter time to break contact with the enemy.

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I've recently finished reading the book Operation Mayhem by Steve Heaney and Damien Lewis; there is certainly no end of comments in there about how much the SA80 is much maligned by the soldiers using it. Discussing anything from the sights fogging up to the weapon rusting at a visible pace. A great read that one.

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You may have to dig around the Tubes a bit, but Ian did a number of videos on the L85 and its development. It's enlightening viewing.

----

RE: Big Army adoption of the M4 over the M16...I think there's at least a bit of 'cool gear' envy driving the process.

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Maybe, but it was also a reality of finally understanding that weight and compactness matter far more than range performances at 500+m and that rifles are basically used as PDWs today, so nothing of note was lost with M16->M4 transition. One of the few things US has done (relatively) recently that actually makes sense.

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Unlike the British with L85A1 US had a functional rifle for the people not in SF.

 

It would have made a lot more sense and saved a fortune to go entirely C7/8 with the rest of the armed forces.

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In their defense there were advantages for L60 in Chieftain compared to other solutions. There was zero advantages for L85 when it was introduced compared to any other 5.56 rifle.

If they really wanted bullpup Brits should have adopted FAMAS :D

Edited by bojan
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In their defense there were advantages for L60 in Chieftain compared to other solutions. There was zero advantages for L85 when it was introduced compared to any other 5.56 rifle.

If they really wanted bullpup Brits should have adopted FAMAS :D

 

That would have led us down another evolutionary dead end :)

 

Late edit: What is really annoying is that we were a (very) early adopter of the AR15.

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It worked unlike L85 and "dead end" does not really matter if you replace rifles every 20-30 years anyway, as you should. Or Steyr AUG, available since 1977, since you were dead set on bullpup back then.

Edited by bojan
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It worked unlike L85 and "dead end" does not really matter if you replace rifles every 20-30 years anyway, as you should. Or Steyr AUG, available since 1977, since you were dead set on bullpup back then.

 

Well, the Falkland Islands Defence Force were offered the L85 and went for the AUG and still have it in service - albeit they are only now transitioning to the L85A2. They still get to choose some of their own kit.

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2188111254792305&id=2094635694139862

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