Poland Officially Requests F-35's

[Stuart Galbraith]

The traditional response was to buy 2 of every one we buy. They cant do that anymore because they cant afford it, but the development of Su57, their cruise missiles, their surface warships etc etc etc, its all keep up with the joneses. They talk about asymmetric, but their force structure sure doesnt demonstrate much of it. They only asymmetric thing they have truly done is hacking (which any 12 year old in Russia apparently can do) and hiring private military contractors. Judging by how unsuccessful they were in Chechnya, Sudan and even Ukraine, it looks like a poor substitute to me.

 

Russia isn simply going to ignore poland arming up. They will try to match it no matter what they say. They are scared of the poles for past transgressions.

[glenn239]

I think this US-Polish axis emerging stronger and stronger in NATO is symptomatic of a growing split in NATO and increasing Polish strength and influence in Eastern Europe may cause friction more with Germany and Ukraine than with Russia.

Edited October 5, 2019 by glenn239

[Nobu]

Interestingly, this would also point to decreasing American strength and influence in Western Europe.

[Josh]

 

6 Forcing Russia to embark on yet another arms race that it cant afford, forcing the collapse of the Putin Regime.

 

Its just win win win all round.

 

If you listen to the commentary coming out of Russia, they are all about negating enemy capabilities assymetrically, and always have been. They don't have to buy a Gen 5 fighter plane for every one Poland buys when they can easily nagate them by other, vastly cheaper and safer means.

 

 

I don't disagree, but on the flip side they create entire new classes of strategic weapons that seem, from a western point of view, utterly pointless. I've no doubt they could mother fuck Poland at the drop of the hat and invade the Baltics. But I doubt they would want any US blow back. I agree Europe should have its own cruise missiles as a deterrent. But you kinda have to assume NATO (the US) backs out if you assume Russian cruise missile attacks are compltely without consequence. I'm not saying you're wrong, just get your own cruise missiles.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I dont think the US is going to back out of NATO now, I think Trump has more important things to worry about. long may it continue.

[urbanoid]

Some plans were announced today:

- F-16 MLU program - 2026-2035
- two new squadrons of multirole fighters - 2026-2035, could be more F-35s, could be KF-21, as the head of MoD's Armament Agency announced some time ago that 'we're observing the program with great interest'
- 2x Saab 340 AEW aircraft 'for yesterday' - which means used ones
- CASA C-295 upgrade - 2024 - 2028
- 32 x AW149
- 22 x AW101 - that sounds almost unbelievable, as those are damned expensive helicopters

[Stuart Galbraith]

What brand of Aw101, asw ones?

I'm glad the 149 is getting orders, that's a nice looking machine.

[urbanoid]

31 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

What brand of Aw101, asw ones?

I'm glad the 149 is getting orders, that's a nice looking machine.

Those are air force acquisitions.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Troop transports? Might make more sense to buy Chinook. If they were submarine hunters Id say it was a good choice.

[urbanoid]

The Navy is getting AW101 too, for ASW and CSAR.

I was actually mistaken, the new ones will be for the Land Forces, 25th Air Assault Brigade, to replace Mi-8/17.

[Stuart Galbraith]

OK, I guess that makes sense, they can use most of the same parts.

[urbanoid]

Diversification?

 

[urbanoid]

Poland is apparently interested in E-2D Hawkeyes. 

And Boeing is pitching F-15EX

I prefer the first ones to the second ones, but in the current 'MOAR!' climate anything is possible.

[sunday]

Military suppliers seems to be in a mood akin to flies smelling honey.

[Josh]

I don’t see what the F-15 would bring to the table when F-35s are already on order.

[R011]

On 9/9/2023 at 4:27 PM, Josh said:

I don’t see what the F-15 would bring to the table when F-35s are already on order.

Apparently, according to some with whom we've corresponded on line, the F-35 is the Wheeled Deathtrap of fighters while the F-15 is the flighter equivalent of the Gavin.

[Dawes]

Not exactly stealthy, but the F-15EX can carry a heavier payload farther than the F-35, although if the payload is a bunch of standoff missiles then range capability may not matter as much.

[DB]

It won't be able to carry them any closer to the edge of the enemy's radar coverage though, so it simply becomes an expensive stand-off platform, which you could use something much less zoomy for. But of course, the USAF is probably not run by bomber pilots.

[Dawes]

The F-15EX's primary purpose is to replace some of the museum-piece F-15C/D aircraft flown by the ANG/AFRES community. It'll probably do that well, and it's air-to-surface capability would come in handy for Afghanistan 2.0 (if that ever happens).

[Josh]

F-15EX was to replace C models in USAF Reserves units for air policing as an easy logistical/training swap out. Plus range matters in that role. At least two of those half dozen squadrons now are to receive F-35 instead. IMO, a better use of funds would be EX as an E replacement with the old Es going to the guard units, but whatever.

The extra range and payload of the F-15 doesn’t seem particularly useful for Poland given the country’s small size and proximity to its opponent(s). And they already will employ three logistical/training programs: F-16, F-35, and FA-50. Adding a forth fighter type seems perplexing. The only justifications I can think of are 1) they are in a rush, and F-15 line is available or 2) there’s some kind of oversized piece or ordnance they want to buy that only the F-15 can carry.

[urbanoid]

Hello there

 

[sunday]

5 hours ago, urbanoid said:

Hello there

 

Any attempts to take them as war reparations for the Deluge of the 17th. century?

[urbanoid]

3 minutes ago, sunday said:

Any attempts to take them as war reparations for the Deluge of the 17th. century?

They were cheap, IIRC USD 57 million for 2 aircraft.

[sunday]

Very cheap!

[urbanoid]

There was an interview with general Nowak, Polish Air Force Inspector, highlights of part 1:

- training, we have 16 M-346s but the amount of simulators was meant for 8, this bottleneck allows us to train ~10 pilots a year, we want 30. The options are to send some pilots to the US and/or create an alternative system with the already purchased 12 basic F/A-50GF (GF stands for 'gap filler', which is absolutely amusing)
 - the acquisition of F/A-50s saved one of our squadrons after their 14 MiG-29s were donated to Ukraine
- MiG-29s to be retired by the end of 2026
- Su22s to be retired this year
- planned MLU for F-16s (to V standard)
- first F-35s to arrive in Jan 2026, IOC of the first squadron planned for 2028
- two additional squadrons should be purchased, no decision about the type yet