Jump to content
tanknet.org

Luftwaffe Pilot Training Issues


Recommended Posts

The USAF occasionally gives info about flying hours of F-22s and F-22 pilots that tell a story of sub-NATO standard (which is 165 flying hrs per annum) as well.

And then part of those hours are transit flyign hours, which have marginal training value (only take-off, landing and mid-air refuelling unless there's an interesting malfunction).

 

The longevity of F-15s and F-16s in Israeli service tells the story of them either not having enough pilots or their pilots not flying enough, either.

 

Some Russian aviators were down to 60 flying hours per annum for years, and now save for the really big birds they still don't fly much.

 

Simulator hours aren't used in great quantity to compensate - they are in part a fig leaf to excuse too few actual flying hours. Sometimes the public learns about simulator hours, and they're not many. A couple dozen per year, I suppose they use simulators mostly to learn very specific scenarios, I suppose emergency situations.

Simulators are cheap by comparison, but to maintain them costs, and as usually, the armed bureaucracies appear to allocate much money for simulator places or maintenance.

 

----------------------------------

 

BTW, the Yahoo author is too ignorant to understand that two different NATO commitments / requirements are meant.

For flying hours of combat pilots it's 165 hours/yr minimum and 180 hours/yr target AFAIK.

For spending there's a faux fake "commitment" by people without authority to commit (executive branch gets to spend -not to determine- the budget) for a budget of 2% GDP p.a..

Edited by lastdingo
Link to post
Share on other sites

The lack of flying hours has long been an issue for Luftwaffe as well as Heer (and probably Marine, too) aviation, and a major problem for pilot retention. Lots of aircrew quit in recent years due to this and other grievances, like their special flying duty contracts going to 41 years of age being unilaterally changed to standard lifer terms by the Bundeswehr and them being shunted into desk jobs, flying UAVs etc.

Edited by BansheeOne
Link to post
Share on other sites

The lack of flying hours has long been an issue for Luftwaffe as well as Heer (and probably Marine, too) aviation, and a major problem for pilot retention. Lots of aircrew quit in recent years due to this and other grievances, like their special flying duty contracts going to 41 years of age being unilaterally changed to standard lifer terms by the Bundeswehr and them being shunted into desk jobs, flying UAVs etc.

 

Similar issues with the RCAF, coupled with postings to places spouses do not want to be at. Throw in aging fighters, not enough spare parts, maintainers, a government going in circles with the new fighter procurement program.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This senseless Bundeswehr bashing is overshooting. We already mentioned many examples of other air forces having similar issues.

 

I don't even dispute that the Luftwaffe isn't necessary and I myself have declared the German navy to be a pointless waste of budget, but the German army has a very solid raison d'être. Attention should be focused on its value for deterrence & defence in the Baltic surprise invasion scenario.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I dont know, a German navy would be really useful in the Persian Gulf right now.

 

No, it wouldn't. We already discussed this.

The problem in the Gulf if of political nature, not of military nature.

Besides, there are no practically no German tankers or cargo ships crusiing in those waters and those waters are not part of the defined areas of collective self-defence in any of the two alliance treaties of Germany.

 

Moreover, the German navy DOES exist and the government DOES NOT intend to send any ship to the Gulf. (Maybe you should reality check your opinions once in a while.)

We're no lap dogs.

Edited by lastdingo
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I dont know, a German navy would be really useful in the Persian Gulf right now.

 

Better Portuguese. They have more historical knowledge of the area.

Edited by sunday
Link to post
Share on other sites

No, it wouldn't. We already discussed this.

The problem in the Gulf if of political nature, not of military nature.

The effects of the political conflict is one that can be contained with military force.

 

 

 

Besides, there are no practically no German tankers or cargo ships crusiing in those waters and those waters are not part of the defined areas of collective self-defence in any of the two alliance treaties of Germany.

 

Few german ships are not no german ships. And if we decline to help others, the others might not help us in the future. Say when Iran goes after a german ship.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Oh I dont know, a German navy would be really useful in the Persian Gulf right now.

 

No, it wouldn't. We already discussed this.

The problem in the Gulf if of political nature, not of military nature.

Besides, there are no practically no German tankers or cargo ships crusiing in those waters and those waters are not part of the defined areas of collective self-defence in any of the two alliance treaties of Germany.

 

Moreover, the German navy DOES exist and the government DOES NOT intend to send any ship to the Gulf. (Maybe you should reality check your opinions once in a while.)

We're no lap dogs.

Fine, tell that to a German crewman when he is shot at or kidnapped by the IRGC. Don't kid yourself they appreciate neutrality.

 

Nobody accused you of being lap dogs, but responsible members of the international community would be no bad thing.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine, tell that to a German crewman when he is shot at or kidnapped by the IRGC. Don't kid yourself they appreciate neutrality.

 

Tell that to the navy sailor who gets captured and raped every day for three years of captivity.

 

See? I can trade in totally fictional arguments as well.

 

Here's a non-fictional argument: A deployment for a year would cost millions ADDITIONAL government expenses. We could save an additional life for certain with that kind of money.

Ethically, to send a ship there is the equivalent of a human sacrifice.

Opportunity costs are the only kind of fiction that matters.

 

@Markus Becker; full disclosure; I think we should do something if that crap happens in the North Sea or Baltic Sea. (We wouldn't need a navy for that, though.)

 

I don't think all seven seas are our responsibility. That's the kind of warped perception Americans have become captive of.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I dont know, a German navy would be really useful in the Persian Gulf right now.

 

You think? I think having no vessel would be less useless than having a German vessel. Do you expect the Germans would do anything but look unhappy when the Iranians capture a ship? Can you imagine them shooting down a helicopter or sinking a boat because it might intend to capture a ship?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Oh I dont know, a German navy would be really useful in the Persian Gulf right now.

 

You think? I think having no vessel would be less useless than having a German vessel. Do you expect the Germans would do anything but look unhappy when the Iranians capture a ship? Can you imagine them shooting down a helicopter or sinking a boat because it might intend to capture a ship?

I'm sure they would do a great job, with great competence. If they were allowed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just bring the German frigate into an Iranian port and let it rollover in the harbour entrance. They already like to list. Actually if they could get one of their subs down there that would help.

 

currently the German Navy has 1 ship as part of the UNFIL taskforce off of Lebanon

 

5167117364_3ae2b06dd7_b.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...