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Posted
16 hours ago, bojan said:

Shooter was bullied, it was reported twice (and reports happen extremely rarely), but nothing was done about it. He took his father's gun after watching him type a passcode to a safe. He apparently planned this for a quite some time. Shooter was excellent student but with bulling his grades started dropping. It appears that last straw was from history teacher who gave him bad mark (1 - no-pass, marks are 1-5 with 1 being no-pass, 5 being best). 

 

Cry me a river.  I was bullied throughout grade school till, one afternoon, I beat the snot out of one of the little sh!t$ doing it.  No guns, no grade drop, no reports (well,two incidents in the cafeteria attracted official attention, but that was out of my hands).  

Bullying doesn't create psychopaths.  They just use it as an excuse.

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Posted
46 minutes ago, Steven P Allen said:

,,,I was bullied throughout grade school till, one afternoon, I beat the snot out of one of the little sh!t$ doing it. 

I solved it the same way. Funny, after that his parents came to complain to mine, and were told to GTFO, since they did nothing about their little shit before when I made a complaints about his behavior.

Quote

Bullying doesn't create psychopaths.  They just use it as an excuse.

Absolutely.

Posted

Bullied in school until I developed a reputation for succumbing to the red mist. Not a side of me I particularly liked, mainly because I'd pull muscles when being restrained. Also, when you get red mist angry, you tend to punch people in the teeth, and that's stupid, because it hurts, your knuckles bleed and you get infections.

Posted

Yeah. Same here. Went to Japan over the 10th to 11th grade summer break, found my feet as it were, then when someone tried me in 11th grade, I grabbing the student by the neck and shoved them back against their friends. That seemed to put a stop to it. Funny how that worked. 

Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Steven P Allen said:

Cry me a river.  I was bullied throughout grade school till, one afternoon, I beat the snot out of one of the little sh!t$ doing it.  No guns, no grade drop, no reports (well,two incidents in the cafeteria attracted official attention, but that was out of my hands).  

Bullying doesn't create psychopaths.  They just use it as an excuse.

I was bullied, and I never got any payback, the school wasnt remotely interested. Ive played violent computer games since 1983 (before if you count pacman). Ive read violent novels. Ive seen violent movies. Ive only been a fight since school once, and didnt even leave a mark on the guy.In all that time ive killed absolutely nobody.I even feel bad when I stand on snails on my driveway.

I agree, Its not the life experience that makes the difference, its the soul of the person doing it. Some people could read the back of a box of wheatabix and go psycho. And the next day, someone will blame the Wheato's for tipping him over the edge.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
Posted (edited)

When it rains it pours. :(

21 y/o with automatic rifle (illegal...) shot multiple people in village near Belgrade. 8 dead.

Edited by bojan
Posted

What seems to be going on in American public schools is pretty much what you'd expect. Even in my own sleepy small multiracial town, bullying is fairly commonplace in the public schools but the staff strenously avoids observing it. I assume the administration is trying to avoid lawsuits. 

In the adjacent, rougher cities, its usually the responder that gets disciplined, not the bully. I've read a number of posts on FB from younger single moms who describe The Talk with their child, to the effect of "don't start any fights, but if someone assaults you, knock them flat." Seems like the working class has had it with the nonsense. 

Posted
41 minutes ago, bojan said:

When it rains it pours. :(

21 y/o with automatic rifle (illegal...) shot multiple people in village near Belgrade. 8 dead.

Perhaps a data point for mass shootings being contagious, in that they prompt other psychos to act out their own fantasies.

Nothing I hear out of the Serbian government on those incidents makes any sense frankly, even if today's "let's disarm the country!" was somewhat expectable.

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

Nothing I hear out of the Serbian government on those incidents makes any sense frankly...

Because it is all directed on their own rating, not making sense. Hence strongman rhetoric, including "laws be damned" promises.

Quote

even if today's "let's disarm the country!" was somewhat expectable.

And in case of it happening (well, at least for legally owned weapons...) I am pretty sure that members of his party will keep weapons they own.

Edited by bojan
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bojan said:

When it rains it pours. :(

21 y/o with automatic rifle (illegal...) shot multiple people in village near Belgrade. 8 dead.

I imagine that people will be saying that he was encouraged to go over the edge he was on by the prior incident.

Given the relative size of Serbia, these two events will put the country way higher on any lists.

It always sounds trite when people express sorrow over the loss of people they never knew, so I never do that, but it always seems like such a waste.

Edited by DB
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, DB said:

...Given the relative size of Serbia, these two events will put the country way higher on any lists...

17 killed is 19% increase in overall number of murders (89 last year) and 53% increase in murders by firearm (32 last year), so yeah, pretty large impact at statistics front.

Edited by bojan
Posted

That many deaths has to have a proportionately much larger impact on those who remain, even if the victims are not known.

It's easy to let empathy overcome rationality in these circumstances.

Posted
Quote

Serbia: Police arrest suspect in second mass shooting

7 hours ago

The man is suspected of killing eight people in the second mass shooting in Serbia in just two days. Authorities hunted for the attacker as the country mourns.

Police on Friday arrested a suspected gunman who killed eight people in a town in central Serbia a day earlier, police and state media reported.

A police statement said that the man was arrested early in the morning near the town of Kragujevac, about 100 kilometers (60 miles) south of Belgrade. The suspect was identified with the initials U.B.

Police had been searching for a 21-year-old suspect who allegedly fled after opening fire with an assault rifle and handgun from a moving car, seemingly at random, while passing through several villages.  

The mass shooting was the second to take place in Serbia in less than 48 hours after a 13-year-old student shot dead eight peers and a security guard in a Belgrade elementary school on Wednesday.

What we know about Thursday's attack

Another 14 people were wounded as the attacker went on the shooting spree in the town of Mladenovac, 60 kilometers (37 miles) from the capital, Belgrade.

Local media reported that the suspect had been involved in an altercation at a school late on Thursday.

He allegedly left before returning with his two guns. 

The victims appeared to be, at least in part, at random and included an off-duty police officer and his sister, according to state broadcaster RTS.

A large contingent of around 600 police officers as well as the Special Antiterrorist Unit (SAJ) was deployed following the mass shooting, setting up heavily armed roadblocks in Mladenovac and launching a manhunt.

Helicopters and drones were also seen flying above the scene and nearby areas.

Serbian Interior Minister Bratislav Gasic called the shootings "a terrorist act," according to state media.

President Vucic announces clampdown on guns

President Aleksandar Vucic had already announced a host of gun control measures following Wednesday's school shooting. Serbia's Interior Ministry had warned gun owners to keep their weapons empty and locked in gun cabinets or safes.

However, on Friday, he went further, saying "We will do an almost complete disarming of Serbia" during a live broadcast.

The populist president also said that the shooter in Thursday's attack "will never again see the light of the day."

He also announced a raft of "anti-terror" measures which included the deployment of some 1,200 police officers to guard the country's schools.

[...]

https://www.dw.com/en/serbia-police-arrest-suspect-in-second-mass-shooting/a-65523423

Posted

That whole issue looks like a ghost debate, since by everything that's known, there is no "manifesto" of the Nashville shooter like others of the ilk have penned to increase their post-mortal infamy - and notably dumped onto the net before acting. All police statements have said that there is a suicide note, several journals, plans for the attack; but "manifesto" has been only used by those claiming there is one being withheld for political reasons, as far as I can see. If the shooter had one, we'd likely know because she would have published it beforehand, like all the other cool kids.

Posted
On 5/3/2023 at 10:37 PM, DKTanker said:

So you remember the Nashville shooter, the one that probably drinks beer produced by Transheuser-Busch?  As you probably know She/he/it wrote a manifesto, said manifesto being held by the Nashville PD.  The PD is now saying that because they didn't release the manifesto for public dissemination, they are being sued under a public records act, and therefore cannot release the manifesto because it is evidence in a lawsuit.  A lawsuit demanding its public release.

Anybody else's head spinning?

Never mind spinning, more a hyperboloid elipsis.  Who wants logic though?

Posted
5 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Perhaps a data point for mass shootings being contagious, in that they prompt other psychos to act out their own fantasies.

Yes. There's a high degree of copy cat work among shooters. 2-3 follow often times. 

The notoriety that goes hand in hand with the nihilism is what feeds that. 

Posted
8 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

If the shooter had one, we'd likely know because she would have published it beforehand, like all the other cool kids.

Her unpublished writings, journals, manifesto, (A rose by any other name....)were found in her car by the Nashville, PD.  The imaginative existence, therefore, is an argument you should take up with the Nashville, PD as they are who is proclaiming the existence.

Posted

As I said, no. Not even the suits demanding they release the materials are claiming that. Here's "The Tennessean", which filed with the FBI to the same effect:

Quote

Nashville police withhold Covenant shooter's writings amid lawsuits seeking release

Angele Latham Nashville Tennessean

In the month since the deadly Covenant School shooting, two lawsuits have been filed against the Metro Nashville Police Department in an effort to hasten the release of the writings and materials left by the shooter.

A third challenge, filed as an administrative appeal, was made against the Federal Bureau of Investigation challenging its denial of a public records request.

The Tennessee Firearms Association and retired Hamilton County Sheriff James Hammond, as well as Clata Renee Brewer in conjunction with the National Police Association are suing MNPD for the release of the materials.

The Tennessee Star filed the administrative appeal against the FBI under with the help of the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty.

All three present similar arguments for the release of the writings, some of which were discovered in the shooter's car at the scene.

The three plaintiffs received almost identical denials to their requests, with the law enforcement agencies citing Rule 16 of the Tennessee Rules of Criminal Proceeding and the Tennessee Supreme Court case Tennessean v. Metro Government of Nashville as reasons for their denial.

The rule and case law say public records requests can be denied if the records are part of an ongoing criminal prosecution.

All three filings counter this, stating that there is no ongoing criminal prosecution related to the Covenant shooting, so the referenced rules cannot apply. Police fatally shot the shooter, who they later identified as 28-year-old Audrey Hale.

“The (MNPD's) denial failed to identify any underlying criminal proceeding, or even potential defendant, such that the requested materials would be a 'case' under Rule 16 of the Tennessee Rules of Criminal Proceeding," said John Harris III, an attorney with Schulman Leroy & Bennett and the executive director of the Tennessee Firearms Association.

Calls for the release of the materials — which TBI Director David Rausch characterized more as "ramblings" rather than writings pointing to any clear motive — have been growing over the past few weeks, heightened by Gov. Bill Lee’s statement made on social media on April 27 declaring that the information would be “released to the public very soon,” as well as his calls for a special session to pass his proposed gun control legislation.

[...]

Metro was asking the court to reschedule a hearing in one of the cases scheduled for May 11 concerning why the city shouldn't release the records that the plaintiffs requested.

The city said that timeline was not feasible given the volume of materials that the plaintiffs asked for, which included materials other than Hale's journal, and that MNPD has "not had an opportunity to interview everyone related to the incident and review all the documents it has gathered." Rescheduling the hearing would give interested parties a chance to weigh in, Metro wrote.

"The Metropolitan Government believes they should have an opportunity to participate in the show cause hearing if they wish and that the Court should consider these varying interests," Metro wrote in its filing.

https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news/2023/05/03/covenant-shooting-lawsuits-filed-for-audrey-hale-writings-nashville-police/70175535007/

From what I see, media referring to a "manifesto" in their headlines didn't claim that one exists in the actual reports either as per their usual modus operandi. Except for the "Daily Mail", which largely used quotation marks to refer to what everyone else calls the "journal" left by the shooter in her car:

Quote

Nashville PD says it's PAUSING plans to release transgender school shooter Audrey Hale's manifesto due to 'pending litigation'

By Andrea Cavallier For Dailymail.Com

Published: 20:39 BST, 3 May 2023 | Updated: 20:41 BST, 3 May 2023

Nashville school shooter Audrey Hale's manifesto will not be released anytime soon due to a pending litigation that was filed this week.

The Metropolitan Nashville Police Department said in a tweet on Wednesday that they have been advised by counsel to hold in abeyance the release of records related to the shooting at The Covenant School pending orders or direction of the court.

It comes just after former Hamilton County Sheriff James Hammond and the Tennessee Firearms Association filed a lawsuit on Monday against the Metropolitan Nashville government over the police department not yet releasing Hale's 'manifesto.'

The lawsuit requested a court order to force police to turn over the writings which have been referred to as a 'blueprint on total destruction' detailing why Hale chose to enter The Covenant School on March 27 and kill three children and three members of the staff. 

The lawsuit on May 1 is not the only one that's been filed, and it's unclear exactly which 'pending litigation' Metro police is referring to in their recent statement. 

Last week, a Nashville police source initially confirmed the release of the document to the New York Post as demands for Hale's writings grew louder on social media and across the country. 

But that all appears to have changed this week following another lawsuit filed in the Chancery Court of Tennessee, Davidson County, which is against the Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County, requesting for a court order to force Metro Nashville police to turn over certain records.

The Tennessee Firearms Association had previously filed two open records requests, including the 'manifesto' and also sought disclosure of 'all email communications of MNPD officials regarding the mass shooting committed by Audrey Elizabeth Hale on March 27, 2023, as well as MNPD officials' text messages regarding the same, and copies of the 'manifesto' reported left by Audrey Elizabeth Hale in her vehicle.'

[...]

Records sought in the lawsuit reportedly contain material including body camera footage, photos, impound and evidence invoices, coroner information, toxicology reports, audio calls for service and surveillance footage.

[...]

Officers retrieved the 'manifesto' - along with hand-drawn maps, a suicide note, 20 journals, laptops, phones and several writings, from Hale's home and the Honda Fit she left in the school parking lot.

One official with the Metro Nashville Police Department said the contents of Hale's manifesto 'keeps him up at night.'

The manifesto has been shared with the FBI's behavioral analysis unit in Quantico, Virginia, and detail Hale's 'planning over a period of months to commit mass murder' at the school, according to police.

For some, Hale's decision to target the Christian elementary school she once attended, together with her changing gender identify, suggest the attack was a manifestation of violent transgender activism.

[...]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12042925/Nashville-PD-says-pausing-plans-release-transgender-school-shooters-manifesto.html

Last line says it all, really. Some people want a neat declaration of trans terrorism stating "straighties must die because, LGBTQWERTY rights". I'm sure they can eventually piece something together from individual quotes throughout the vast amount of writings the suits seek to have released, too. As usual, everyone is trying to make political hay from the shooting fitting their general agenda, and detracting from the issues they don't want to talk about because they're inconvenient or too hard to change.

Posted
4 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

From what I see, media referring to a "manifesto" in their headlines didn't claim that one exists in the actual reports either as per their usual modus operandi. Except for the "Daily Mail", which largely used quotation marks to refer to what everyone else calls the "journal" left by the shooter in her car:

So you used all that time and space to essentially agree with me.

Posted

One official with the Metro Nashville Police Department said the contents of Hale's manifesto 'keeps him up at night.'

So, what does that mean? 

Posted
14 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Last line says it all, really. Some people want a neat declaration of trans terrorism stating "straighties must die because, LGBTQWERTY rights". I'm sure they can eventually piece something together from individual quotes throughout the vast amount of writings the suits seek to have released, too. As usual, everyone is trying to make political hay from the shooting fitting their general agenda, and detracting from the issues they don't want to talk about because they're inconvenient or too hard to change.

How about we just let the disinfectant of sunshine fall upon those writings?  Believe me, I do understand there is a not insignificant number of people that believe those beneath their station are unable to handle information.  As always, they are mistaken.

To what issues are you referring?  Or do you believe those are also above the station of others to discuss?

Posted
3 hours ago, rmgill said:

One official with the Metro Nashville Police Department said the contents of Hale's manifesto 'keeps him up at night.'

So, what does that mean? 

We plebeians are not meant to know or understand, merely to do.

Posted

https://nationalpolice.org/the-national-police-association-files-1st-amended-complaint-in-response-to-refusal-to-release-the-nashville-shooter-manifesto/

Quote

 

Indianapolis, May 5, 2023 – The National Police Association (NPA) announced today that it has filed an amended and supplemental complaint in conjunction with plaintiff Clata Renee Brewer, against the governments of Nashville and Davidson County for their new refusal to act on a request for records. The FOIA request asked for all writings by Audrey Hale, to include a manifesto, recovered by the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department (MNPD) relating to the March 27, 2023 mass shooting that occurred at The Covenant School, in Nashville, Tennessee where Audrey Hale killed three children and three adults. The FOIA also requested all records, including emails, texts, and other communications to and from the MNPD mentioning or regarding the writings of Audrey Hale recovered by the MNPD.

The NPA believes releasing the complete materials will benefit law enforcement and the public. The writings of killers often offer critical insights into the factors that contribute to the development of criminal behavior and provide insight into how to avoid future tragedies.

Also, the communications between MNPD and outside interests who may have caused the MNPD to not comply with the FOIA statute will provide guidance going forward on how other departments can plan for and prevent similar interference.

Up until May 3, 2023 the reason given for not allowing disclosure of the requested public records is that Rule 16 of the Tennessee Rules of Criminal Procedure prohibits disclosure because this incident is an open case. This despite there being no evidence of a criminal case against the deceased shooter, the heroic Nashville police officers who responded to the shooting, or any other parties.

 

 

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