Mass Shooting

[sunday]

9 hours ago, Murph said:

Well, if Christians acted more like Muslims, maybe lefties would be more respectful?  Just saying.  Also if Christians stopped being so woke lefty, then perhaps there would be more of them?

https://www.regent.edu/journal/inner-resources-for-leaders/spiritual-meekness-a-virtue-for-christian-leaders/

The Coptic martyrs that were beheaded in a Egyptian beach by Daesh not so long ago could have been as meek, in that sense, as the Blue Division troopers that withstood a Russian Army armored assault in Krasny Bor despite a 70% of casualties among the units directly engaged.

Edited April 24, 2023 by sunday

[R011]

On 4/23/2023 at 9:40 AM, DB said:

His face is in the article. What more do you actually need?

Were the races reversed, this would be a bigger story.  Race would be prominently mentioned in the story, as well as photos with speculation that it was a hate crime.

[DB]

There's a conspiracy under every single bed, you know. Especially the uncomfortable ones you lie in when you're employed by the people you claim to despise, eh, Ryan?

[rmgill]

14 hours ago, DB said:

There's a conspiracy under every single bed, you know. Especially the uncomfortable ones you lie in when you're employed by the people you claim to despise, eh, Ryan?

Look at the coverage of shootings over the past few weeks. 

In the case of the man who shot the black teen who showed up at his door, there was a concerted effort to paint the old white man as a racist. The Identity of the black teen is key. 

The fact that he's a straight white man IS why he's automatically a racist. This isn't me finding a conspiracy under the bed. This is the current narrative. It's me being aware because I'm near it. I work in the sausage factory for about 2 more weeks. 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=man+shoots+teen&t=osx&ia=web

If you search for man shoot's teen. The headlines that pop up are predominantly, 'White man shoots black teen'. 

The black asian hate movement that was going on, it was predominantly black-men attacking asian victims. Was that made clear even in the bodies of the stories or in the larger "STOP ASIAN HATE!" movement? No. I've had this conversation with co-workers who were unaware. 

[NickM]

2 hours ago, rmgill said:

Look at the coverage of shootings over the past few weeks.

The black asian hate movement that was going on, it was predominantly black-men attacking asian victims. Was that made clear even in the bodies of the stories or in the larger "STOP ASIAN HATE!" movement? No. I've had this conversation with co-workers who were unaware. 

 

Yeah, they're trying to smear 'Trump Supporters' as being Anti-Asian due to the 'China Virus' rhetoric of the God/Emperor.

The FUNNIEST thing I see about all the Asian(often Part Asian) celebs who talk about this are also literally 'copulating with the enemy': see Chrissy Teigen and Shay Mitchell.

[Skywalkre]

On 4/21/2023 at 8:11 PM, Stargrunt6 said:

Bravo.

I listened to a talk by a sociologist who studied why men don't go to church. Someone brought up the oft-mentioned statistic that over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce.  I myself have heard this in church, Christian radio shows and books. 

He responded that he looked at the actual study and discovered flaws in their methods. The main one was they listed anyone who claimed a Christian denomination as a Christian.  The researchers did ask for details, and it ran anywhere from the CEO Christians that I mentioned (or less) to those who go to church every week, read their Bibles, pray, observe practices, etc.

Once you isolate the latter group, surprise, their divorce rates are much much lower. 

Here is the talk in question:

 

Eh... he brings up some good points... but most are just so... shallow.  Are these really the reasons men aren't going to church?  I can seem them being a part of it... but the driving force?

Some of the other points he brings up are also kind of weak. 

- It may not be church per se that drives down those negative metrics for men... it could be that attending church puts men around other male role models (this has been shown in other research to be a driving influence in reducing negative male behavior).

- He talks about churches that close tend to be overwhelmingly female and that women stay loyal to the institution above all else.  Maybe loyalty to the institution is irrelevant... maybe those men left because the church wasn't focusing on what it should be focusing on.

- Not a fan of pushing men to go to church just for the sake of going to church.  That's just checking a box... men have to live it.

Which leads to the main reason that he just glosses over - hypocrisy.  He touts that as the main reason men give for not going to church but offers nothing in response to it.  I saw similar findings in a book I tried to read (twice) years ago called unChristian.  That book featured multiple polls that basically said as much - young people (the focus of the book) were leaving church because of so much hypocrisy... and the authors of that book just refused to believe it or address it (why I was never able to finish the book).

If anything I'd argue men have better BS indicators then women... and when a church loses its way, forgets what's important, and these concerns are blown off by church leadership... men will leave.

[Ssnake]

For me, the breaking point was that some reverends in the regional church forbade the presence of soldiers during service, and that it went unchallenged - let alone that anyone put an end to it - by the church's leadership. That was decades before a drunk-driving local bishop leading same church told me that everything the Bundeswehr did in Afghanistan was worthless.

Either church is for everybody, then it must accept everybody. But no, they rather lectured me that my chosen profession which enabled them in the first place to sit on their high horse of morally superior pacifism was not desired.

Fine, I left. Saved me two hours weekly of incredibly boring sermons and bad singing.

So my mom died, a member of the church till the end. They wouldn't let me use a nearby chapel for obsequies, because I wasn't a member. I'm sure, they would've made Jesus proud with their pettiness.

 

I don't think that my story is particularly representative, but it fits into the pattern of bullshit and hypocrisy. And still they wonder why membership figures in Germany are melting like glaciers in a global warming trend. Selfawareness is zero with these people, as far as I can tell.

The Catholic church in Germany held up longer, probably because of their ideological rigidity. But it's collapsing now, because they can no longer pretend that pederasty in rank and file is under control. All the nice and progressive bishops of the last thirty years that promised transparency and disclosure are now exposed as complete frauds and partners in crime. Their fall from the high horse is far from over yet.

[Sardaukar]

Seems to be endemic...

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/04/9-teens-wounded-in-prom-after-party-shooting-in-texas/

[Skywalkre]

3 hours ago, Sardaukar said:

Seems to be endemic...

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/04/9-teens-wounded-in-prom-after-party-shooting-in-texas/

There's far more to the story... but good luck getting a discussion on it given how polarizing it is.

Here's another interesting article you may like.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413?utm_source=pocket-newtab

I'm not a fan of the methodology but it highlights how the narrative around gun violence in this country isn't as the common narrative on either side would have you believe.  I also like how they break down homicide vs suicide rates (the latter, which you don't hear a lot, kills more than the former in this country).  Note the safest place to be regarding death by firearms... NYC and the area around it.  Who would've thought that?  The worst for all gun deaths?  What they call Greater Appalachia and the Deep South (worse than the entire southern border with Mexico up to and including LA) which is an area that is predominantly R controlled).  One of the worst places in the country for suicide?  Flyover country, surprisingly.

This article reminds me of another piece a friend recommended a year ago (was behind a paywall so didn't shell out any money to read it).  Apparently, since the start of COVID, homicides in the rural south (again, R controlled) have drastically shot up leading those areas to be just as bad per capita as some of these major cities Rs like to point to.  The data in the article above would lend some credence to that.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skywalkre

[Angrybk]

27 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

There's far more to the story... but good luck getting a discussion on it given how polarizing it is.

Here's another interesting article you may like.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413?utm_source=pocket-newtab

I'm not a fan of the methodology but it highlights how the narrative around gun violence in this country isn't as the common narrative on either side would have you believe.  I also like how they break down homicide vs suicide rates (the latter, which you don't hear a lot, kills more than the former in this country).  Note the safest place to be regarding death by firearms... NYC and the area around it.  Who would've thought that?  The worst for all gun deaths?  What they call Greater Appalachia and the Deep South (worse than the entire southern border with Mexico up to and including LA... and also predominantly R controlled).  One of the worst places in the country for suicide?  Flyover country, surprisingly.

This article reminds me of another piece a friend recommended a year ago (was behind a paywall so didn't shell out any money to read it).  Apparently, since the start of COVID, homicides in the rural south (again, R controlled) have drastically shot up leading those areas to be just as bad per capita as some of these major cities Rs like to point to.  The data in the article above would lend some credence to that.

I read that article as well and thought it was interesting (also read the book it was based on). Actually thought about posting a thread about it. I thought the author’s “America is actually a bunch of different nations” thesis is intriguing but also paints far too much of a broad brush. Also I kinda hate anything that puts people into buckets instead of treating them as individuals and from what I remember the author basically ignores the existence of black people and other racial minorities. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Angrybk

[Skywalkre]

1 minute ago, Angrybk said:

I read that article as well and thought it was interesting (also read the book it was based on). Actually thought about posting a thread about it. I thought the author’s “America is actually a bunch of different nations” thesis is intriguing but also paints far too much of a broad brush. Also I kinda hate anything that puts people into buckets instead of treating them as individuals and from what I remember the author basically ignores the existence of black people and other racial minorities. 

He even points out in that article the thesis is kind of weak considering how mobile this country has become (my own family started in WI 150 years ago when we came over... and now we're spread over a third of the country).  He has a point that recent trends have Americans moving to areas that share their beliefs... but that's only a recent trend.

Still... I can maybe understand underlying traditions and patterns of thought that would lead to majority control electing like-minded individuals over a period of time... but if that's true you should be able to look at hard policy decisions and compare those directly rather than just infer similarities.

Regardless... the map alone is worth looking at.  I wasn't surprised to see the South as the worst when it comes to all forms of gun death after what my friend was telling me was in that other article.  Was surprised to see the NYC region be that far ahead of everywhere else in regards to least amounts of deaths across the board.  Why the hell is flyover country one of the worst regarding suicides?  So many questions... but good luck getting the conversation started.

[Angrybk]

16 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

He even points out in that article the thesis is kind of weak considering how mobile this country has become (my own family started in WI 150 years ago when we came over... and now we're spread over a third of the country).  He has a point that recent trends have Americans moving to areas that share their beliefs... but that's only a recent trend.

Still... I can maybe understand underlying traditions and patterns of thought that would lead to majority control electing like-minded individuals over a period of time... but if that's true you should be able to look at hard policy decisions and compare those directly rather than just infer similarities.

Regardless... the map alone is worth looking at.  I wasn't surprised to see the South as the worst when it comes to all forms of gun death after what my friend was telling me was in that other article.  Was surprised to see the NYC region be that far ahead of everywhere else in regards to least amounts of deaths across the board.  Why the hell is flyover country one of the worst regarding suicides?  So many questions... but good luck getting the conversation started.

Yeah that’s true. You could probably just correlate rates of gun violence/gun suicides etc to just the states that have the most gun ownership though? 

Personally one of my big political changes was about gun laws.  I don’t own a firearm and have no desire to, my home defense tool is a baseball bat. My wife is Canadian so regards firearms as tools of Satan, my dad was a fighter-bomber pilot in Nam and tried picking up hunting afterward but broke down sobbing after he shot a quail, etc. But the US has more guns than there are people and the country has basically made its decision regarding gun ownership. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Angrybk

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

 Note the safest place to be regarding death by firearms... NYC and the area around it. 

That's because Pookie and RayRay can kill you by shoving you onto the subway. Or beating you to death with a hammer. Or kicking you to death with their feet. 

 

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

 

Who would've thought that?  The worst for all gun deaths?  What they call Greater Appalachia and the Deep South (worse than the entire southern border with Mexico up to and including LA) which is an area that is predominantly R controlled).

It's called parity. 

 

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

This article reminds me of another piece a friend recommended a year ago (was behind a paywall so didn't shell out any money to read it).  Apparently, since the start of COVID, homicides in the rural south (again, R controlled) have drastically shot up leading those areas to be just as bad per capita as some of these major cities Rs like to point to.  The data in the article above would lend some credence to that.

So with all the gun control, has homicide in New York stayed the same? 

[rmgill]

Try this for a thinking exercise. If we disarmed police, would the killing of police go down or up? 

[Angrybk]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

That's because Pookie and RayRay can kill you by shoving you onto the subway. Or beating you to death with a hammer. Or kicking you to death with their feet. 

 

It's called parity. 

 

So with all the gun control, has homicide in New York stayed the same? 

This is a case study of somebody who’s never been to NYC, which rivals Euro cities in terms of low crime rates. (Or at least I hope you haven’t, so at least you get an excuse for posting your “pookie and Ray-Ray” bullshit). 

[Angrybk]

6 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

He even points out in that article the thesis is kind of weak considering how mobile this country has become (my own family started in WI 150 years ago when we came over... and now we're spread over a third of the country).  He has a point that recent trends have Americans moving to areas that share their beliefs... but that's only a recent trend.

Still... I can maybe understand underlying traditions and patterns of thought that would lead to majority control electing like-minded individuals over a period of time... but if that's true you should be able to look at hard policy decisions and compare those directly rather than just infer similarities.

Regardless... the map alone is worth looking at.  I wasn't surprised to see the South as the worst when it comes to all forms of gun death after what my friend was telling me was in that other article.  Was surprised to see the NYC region be that far ahead of everywhere else in regards to least amounts of deaths across the board.  Why the hell is flyover country one of the worst regarding suicides?  So many questions... but good luck getting the conversation started.

After re-skimming it a bit, the part I agree the most with is the “honor culture societies” stuff (resource scarcity leads people to be immediately violent to anybody who they perceive as impugning their toughness). Which probably explains a lot of gun violence, but where the author gets it wrong is just attributing it to Deep South white people where it also applies to lots of other US cultures as well. 

[Stargrunt6]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:53 AM, Rick said:

A large reason why men don't go to church.

It's like those  MCU movies that make too many jokes: if the characters aren't taking the scene seriously,  then why should the audience?

[Ivanhoe]

 

[sunday]

Was Churchill the one that stated that there are lies, big lies, and statistics?

[rmgill]

9 hours ago, Angrybk said:

This is a case study of somebody who’s never been to NYC, which rivals Euro cities in terms of low crime rates. (Or at least I hope you haven’t, so at least you get an excuse for posting your “pookie and Ray-Ray” bullshit). 

I'm currently 90 minutes away from NYC over in Lansdale, PA. I can also go down to Philly if I want to see that same sort of crime. OR to Baltimore. Or parts of DC. I was there last week. I don't need to go past Trenton to know the nature of the crime there. I can TALK to people who live there. One of the partners on the Humber, which is why I'm in PA right now, he lives there. He works as a PA there, among other things. 

As to Violence in the Deep south...track that violence by Zip code. It's not predominantly white zip codes. It's urban, black low income zip codes, which have an honor violence tradition that's way over the top. 

[rmgill]

I'm sure this is because of GOP policies in the south west. 
 

‘This is Demonic’ – Convicted Felon Affiliated with MS-13 Gang Murders, Dismembers Florida Uber Eats Driver While Making Delivery

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/this-is-demonic-convicted-felon-affiliated-with-ms-13-gang-murders-dismembers-florida-uber-eats-driver-while-making-delivery/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=the-gateway-pundit&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content=2023-04-26&fbclid=IwAR2veeqxidEBJFKFT9l3o4U7F9h27ZAYvYi6YrmorfvdcTFKwiNMmCSixYw

[Ivanhoe]

7 hours ago, sunday said:

Was Churchill the one that stated that there are lies, big lies, and statistics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

19th century.

[sunday]

15 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

19th century.

Should have googled that...

[BansheeOne]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:22 AM, BansheeOne said:

Someone might have heard "Jehova" once too much. Seven reported dead at this point, possibly including the shooter, and at least eight wounded. A mobile support unit of Hamburg police happened to be nearby returning from another deployment; their quick entry may have caused the shooter to kill himself.

https://www.dw.com/en/several-people-shot-dead-at-hamburg-jehovahs-witness-hall/a-64938984

We're coming back to the point that any law is only as good as its implementation.

Quote

Germany: Gun official charged over Hamburg church shooting

57 minutes ago

An employee at Hamburg's weapons authorities faces charges of negligent homicide tied to the fatal shooting at a Jehovah's Witnesses hall. He's accused of failing to pass on details about the shooter's mental state.

German prosecutors said on Thursday that an employee of the weapons authority was charged with negligent homicide in relation to the deadly shooting in a Jehovah's Witnesses hall in Hamburg. 

Investigators accuse the official of failing to report or of suppressing information about the shooter and his mental health.

The shooter, identified as Philipp F., went on a shooting spree and killed eight people, including himself, in March. The 35-year-old German citizen was a former member of the congregation.

What did prosecutors say?

The gun authority employee is believed to have received information about the shooter through a member of a gun club to which the latter belonged.

The employee then allegedly advised the club member of sending an anonymous letter to the firearms authority and failed to report such information to his superiors, according to prosecutors.

Three members of the gun club are also being investigated, prosecutors said. Investigators accuse them of having blindly accepted the shooter's claim of having passed an April 2022 practical expertise test to secure his license which he in fact had failed. 

Officials on Thursday searched the gun authority employee's office, the premises of the gun club and the residences of the three members. 

[...]

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-gun-official-charged-over-hamburg-church-shooting/a-65450285

[DB]

11 hours ago, sunday said:

Was Churchill the one that stated that there are lies, big lies, and statistics?

Attributed, I believe, to Disraeli. But, you know, it might be Mark Twain, whose fans have claimed every bon mot that wasn't already given to Einstein.