NickM Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I don't know how black supremacists operating on the fringe of a heterogenous movement claiming to be descended of the ancient Israelites qualify as left-wing, or indeed any other determinable point on the conventional political spectrum; but the mechanism of progression from inflammatory speech to violence is of course well-established regardless of particular politics, and the rational behind hate speech legislation. The Philadelphia shooter went off on classic anti-Semitic conspiracy thinking, in this particular case that Jews were facilitating mass immigration to undermine traditional society. The recent Halle shooter was very similar, getting his notions that Jews are behind all political ills like immigration, Marxism and feminism from the 4chan universe. The Poway shooter cited modern anti-Semitic language from the fringe Christian Identity theology IIRC. AIUI, the Black Israelite extremists are not dissimilar to the latter, replacing white with black supremacy, and considering non-black Jews impostors of true Hebrews. What a colorful world we live in. Let's put it this way--even if they DO vote do you think these black groups would be MAGA hat wearers or supporters of the GOP or 'that other party'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickM Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Some acquaintances from different circumstances make a reappearance. Jersey City Shooting: Suspect Linked to Black Hebrew Israelite Group The Black Hebrew Israelites have been labeled a hate group. The suspect wrote anti-Semitic and anti-police posts, an official said. By Michael Gold and Ali Watkins An assailant involved in the prolonged firefight in Jersey City, N.J., that left six people dead, including one police officer, was linked on Wednesday to the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, which has been designated a hate group, and had published anti-Semitic posts online, a law enforcement official said. The violent rampage on Tuesday took place largely at a kosher supermarket where three bystanders were killed. The authorities now believe that the store was specifically targeted by the assailants, whom they identified as David N. Anderson, 47, and Francine Graham, 50, Mr. Anderson appeared to have a connection to the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, though the extent of his involvement in that group remains unclear, the law enforcement official said. The Black Hebrew Israelites have no connection with mainstream Judaism. It has been described as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a legal advocacy group that tracks such movements. The authorities also suspected that the two assailants may have been involved in a separate killing in neighboring Bayonne, N.J., according to New Jerseys attorney general, Gurbir S. Grewal. Among those killed were three bystanders who were inside the store when the shootout began. They have been identified as Mindel Ferencz, 33, who ran the market with her husband; Moshe Deutch, 24, a rabbinical student who lives in Brooklyn; and Miguel Douglas, 49, who was believed to have worked at the store. One other person inside the store was wounded but managed to escape, according to Mr. Grewal. The Jersey City police officer who was killed was identified on Tuesday as Detective Joe Seals, a 15-year law enforcement veteran and a father of five. Investigators also found a manifesto-style note inside the assailants van, the law enforcement official and another official familiar with the case said. The document, which was described as brief and rambling, suggested no clear motive for the shooting. Investigators also found a live pipe bomb inside the vehicle that was an operable explosive device, officials said on Wednesday. The law enforcement official could not provide more details about Mr. Andersons online posts or where they had been published. He said investigators were still reviewing that information. It was unclear whether Ms. Graham also had ties to the Black Hebrew Israelites. Her brother, Frederick Graham, said he was not aware of any links to the movement. [...] Surveillance footage shows a kosher market was targeted. Jersey Citys mayor, Steven Fulop, said that surveillance footage indicated the two attackers had targeted a kosher supermarket where most of the carnage unfolded. Mr. Fulop said on Wednesday that the footage revealed that after the assailants shot Detective Seals in an earlier encounter, they drove slowly and deliberately to the market, roughly a mile away. The perpetrators stopped in front of there and calmly opened the door with two long rifles, he said. Mr. Fulop and Jersey Citys public safety director, James Shea, said that after the attackers left the van, they walked past others on the street and aimed at people inside the kosher supermarket. We now know this did not begin with gunfire between police officers and perpetrators and then moved to the store, Mr. Shea said. It began with an attack on the civilians inside the store. [...] Detective Seals approached the two assailants, a man and a woman, who were inside a U-Haul van at a cemetery near the kosher market because the van had been linked to a homicide over the weekend, according to the law enforcement official. The official did not have any more details on the homicide. Video surveillance footage shows the assailants shooting the detective and then driving away and ending up in front of the kosher market where they park and enter the store guns firing, the official said. [...] Officers were also investigating whether the two attackers in Jersey City were connected to the death of another Jersey City resident who was found beaten to death in the trunk of car in nearby Bayonne on Saturday night. The man, Michael Rumberger, 34, was found inside a Lincoln Town Car with a massive head trauma, according to the Hudson County prosecutors office. Mr. Grewal, the states attorney general, said that Mr. Anderson and Ms. Graham were currently the prime suspects in the case. [...]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html Unsurprisingly a large number of the posters are blaming the God Emperor for the violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I don't know how black supremacists operating on the fringe of a heterogenous movement claiming to be descended of the ancient Israelites qualify as left-wing, or indeed any other determinable point on the conventional political spectrum; but the mechanism of progression from inflammatory speech to violence is of course well-established regardless of particular politics, and the rational behind hate speech legislation.The same way the Black Panthers do. They're certainly not in the traditional conservative camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Well if you apply the "who is not for us is against us" metric, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I don't know how black supremacists operating on the fringe of a heterogenous movement claiming to be descended of the ancient Israelites qualify as left-wing, or indeed any other determinable point on the conventional political spectrum; but the mechanism of progression from inflammatory speech to violence is of course well-established regardless of particular politics, and the rational behind hate speech legislation. The Philadelphia shooter went off on classic anti-Semitic conspiracy thinking, in this particular case that Jews were facilitating mass immigration to undermine traditional society. The recent Halle shooter was very similar, getting his notions that Jews are behind all political ills like immigration, Marxism and feminism from the 4chan universe. The Poway shooter cited modern anti-Semitic language from the fringe Christian Identity theology IIRC. AIUI, the Black Israelite extremists are not dissimilar to the latter, replacing white with black supremacy, and considering non-black Jews impostors of true Hebrews. What a colorful world we live in.Hate listening is worse than hate speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 So, the latest RUMINT is that the shooter wasn't a joined-in member of BHI, rather he was just interested in them. It now appears he is just one of those nutjobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Some acquaintances from different circumstances make a reappearance. Jersey City Shooting: Suspect Linked to Black Hebrew Israelite Group The Black Hebrew Israelites have been labeled a hate group. The suspect wrote anti-Semitic and anti-police posts, an official said. By Michael Gold and Ali Watkins An assailant involved in the prolonged firefight in Jersey City, N.J., that left six people dead, including one police officer, was linked on Wednesday to the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, which has been designated a hate group, and had published anti-Semitic posts online, a law enforcement official said. The violent rampage on Tuesday took place largely at a kosher supermarket where three bystanders were killed. The authorities now believe that the store was specifically targeted by the assailants, whom they identified as David N. Anderson, 47, and Francine Graham, 50, Mr. Anderson appeared to have a connection to the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, though the extent of his involvement in that group remains unclear, the law enforcement official said. The Black Hebrew Israelites have no connection with mainstream Judaism. It has been described as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a legal advocacy group that tracks such movements. The authorities also suspected that the two assailants may have been involved in a separate killing in neighboring Bayonne, N.J., according to New Jerseys attorney general, Gurbir S. Grewal. Among those killed were three bystanders who were inside the store when the shootout began. They have been identified as Mindel Ferencz, 33, who ran the market with her husband; Moshe Deutch, 24, a rabbinical student who lives in Brooklyn; and Miguel Douglas, 49, who was believed to have worked at the store. One other person inside the store was wounded but managed to escape, according to Mr. Grewal. The Jersey City police officer who was killed was identified on Tuesday as Detective Joe Seals, a 15-year law enforcement veteran and a father of five. Investigators also found a manifesto-style note inside the assailants van, the law enforcement official and another official familiar with the case said. The document, which was described as brief and rambling, suggested no clear motive for the shooting. Investigators also found a live pipe bomb inside the vehicle that was an operable explosive device, officials said on Wednesday. The law enforcement official could not provide more details about Mr. Andersons online posts or where they had been published. He said investigators were still reviewing that information. It was unclear whether Ms. Graham also had ties to the Black Hebrew Israelites. Her brother, Frederick Graham, said he was not aware of any links to the movement. [...] Surveillance footage shows a kosher market was targeted. Jersey Citys mayor, Steven Fulop, said that surveillance footage indicated the two attackers had targeted a kosher supermarket where most of the carnage unfolded. Mr. Fulop said on Wednesday that the footage revealed that after the assailants shot Detective Seals in an earlier encounter, they drove slowly and deliberately to the market, roughly a mile away. The perpetrators stopped in front of there and calmly opened the door with two long rifles, he said. Mr. Fulop and Jersey Citys public safety director, James Shea, said that after the attackers left the van, they walked past others on the street and aimed at people inside the kosher supermarket. We now know this did not begin with gunfire between police officers and perpetrators and then moved to the store, Mr. Shea said. It began with an attack on the civilians inside the store. [...] Detective Seals approached the two assailants, a man and a woman, who were inside a U-Haul van at a cemetery near the kosher market because the van had been linked to a homicide over the weekend, according to the law enforcement official. The official did not have any more details on the homicide. Video surveillance footage shows the assailants shooting the detective and then driving away and ending up in front of the kosher market where they park and enter the store guns firing, the official said. [...] Officers were also investigating whether the two attackers in Jersey City were connected to the death of another Jersey City resident who was found beaten to death in the trunk of car in nearby Bayonne on Saturday night. The man, Michael Rumberger, 34, was found inside a Lincoln Town Car with a massive head trauma, according to the Hudson County prosecutors office. Mr. Grewal, the states attorney general, said that Mr. Anderson and Ms. Graham were currently the prime suspects in the case. [...]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html Unsurprisingly a large number of the posters are blaming the God Emperor for the violence. I saw a video of a black resident blaming the Jews, saying they need to leave that everything was fine until the Jews showed up and then things got violent. Those darn innocent dead civilians and their "Jew shenanigans". Jersey City Shooting video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 People saying normal things aren't nearly as entertaining as nutjobs. Guess who gets featured in videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Well if you apply the "who is not for us is against us" metric, of course. No, not really. The Black Panthers are aligned with the main stream Democrats. They align with each other. I've even been proximate to one of their meetings with main stream democrats in the south. Former Atlanta Mayor Andrew Young was having a conference with them at a local hotel. I happened to be there for a different event and had to run interference between our group to keep them from wandering into their meeting and disturbing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalkre Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 The idea that active shooter drills should be stopped because some minuscule percentage of children get upset is absurd. Being upset is part of a necessary conditioning process. The real world can be upsetting, getting used to that is part of growing up. A more reasonable question is what value do the drills have? Thankfully, I suspect that these incidents are still sufficiently rare that one is unlikely to get more than a rough feel for what approach is best. The point of quoting that article wasn't that the drills some places implement should be stopped because of the harm they do to some students (note the featured student in the article who had trouble is one with developmental issues, not a snowflake). Rather, the point of the article was to highlight something I've mentioned before in recent posts in this thread in that these incidents are still incredibly rare. So rare, in fact, that they don't even have enough data to figure out if these drills save lives. On top of that the article highlights the kneejerk reaction these drills are (and the argument to arm teachers is equally kneejerk in nature). In the overwhelming majority of these incidents the shooters gave clear warnings. We need environments where they're picked up and faculty listen to students reporting them. Stop them before they happen. The article also highlighted how even though bullying has been a major focus of schools for the past two decades they're still failing horribly at addressing it (many of these shooters were victims of it). Frankly, if these school spend two decades trying to tackle bullying, and failing, I don't put much faith into them being able to implement proper drills that would do some good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Texas resident grabs his shotgun and shoots, kills 3 home invaders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobu Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 There appears to be a difference between the actual group in question and the shooter easily mind tricked by it. The BHI are little more than street hustlers masquerading under the protection of their pseudoreligion IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Man unhappy with son's haircut shoots barber, police say https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/man-unhappy-with-sons-haircut-shoots-barber-police-say/ar-BBYiX0B?ocid=spartanntp Police in Texas were searching Monday for a man who they say shot a barber during a dispute over his 13-year-old son's haircut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Is one now "Mass"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Is one now "Mass"?No it isn't but could have escalated with such a crazy gun owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 So does no one do this sort of thing with a knife or club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 So does no one do this sort of thing with a knife or club? The clue is in the title. "shooting". I've never seen someone shot with a club, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 As a follow-up to the NJ shooting: Date 28.12.2019 Author Kristie Pladson New York boosts policing after 'despicable' anti-Semitic attacks on Hanukkah Police in New York City have registered at least six attacks against Jews in the city since Hanukkah began on Sunday. In response, the city is stepping up security in neighborhoods with a large Jewish population. A recent increase in anti-Semitic attacks has prompted New York City to increase its police presence in neighborhoods with large Jewish populations, the mayor of New York announced on Friday following the most recent attack. At least six attacks against Jews have been reported in New York City since Hanukkah, the eight-day Jewish festival of lights, began on Sunday. More officers will be sent to patrol in the neighborhoods Borough Park, Crown Heights, and Williamsburg. Police will also make more frequent visits to synagogues. "I feel pained that in this society, a place that is supposed to be of respect for everybody, a season when we're supposed to be respecting everybody, we see hate rearing its very ugly head. We will not accept it," New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said during a visit with representatives of a local Jewish community. Children and adults attacked The mayor's announcement followed an assault on Friday morning. A woman slapped three other women wearing traditional Jewish clothing and shouted anti-Semitic slurs at them. The assailant was arrested and will be charged with a hate crime. Similar events have unfolded all week long. On Monday, a 65-year-old Orthodox Jewish man was punched in the face. That same day, teenagers allegedly attacked two Jewish children. On Tuesday, a group of people allegedly threw a drink on a 25-year-old man and shouted anti-Semitic slurs. Later that day, a 56-year-old man reported he had been physically assaulted. A woman on Thursday hit a 34-year-old Jewish woman in the head with a bag and said, "Your end is coming." She was later charged with assault as a hate crime. Officials speak out The string of assaults follows a deadly attack at a kosher market in northern New Jersey on December 10 that left six people dead. "The persistent and violent anti-Semitic attacks on Jews in the New York area has reached a crisis level," said Eric Goldstein, the CEO of the UJA Federation of New York, a large Jewish charity. "It's something that's very alarming, and we treat it very seriously,'' police Chief of Detectives Rodney Harrison said at a Friday news conference. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has asked a state hate crimes task force to support police in investigating the attacks. "It's even more despicable that it occurred over the holidays," the governor said. https://www.dw.com/en/new-york-boosts-policing-after-despicable-anti-semitic-attacks-on-hanukkah/a-51816065 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 So does no one do this sort of thing with a knife or club? The clue is in the title. "shooting". I've never seen someone shot with a club, have you? 'Mass' is also part of it. 50% You get an F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Interestingly, the number of mass killings in the US went up this year while the overall number of homicides keeps going down. IOW, murder is becoming more concentrated, which ironically might be good news for anybody who doesn't get caught up in a particular incident. Published 23 hours ago US mass killings hit new high in 2019 Associated Press The first one occurred 19 days into the new year when a man used an ax to kill four family members including his infant daughter. Five months later, 12 people were killed in a workplace shooting in Virginia. Twenty-two more died at a Walmart in El Paso in August. A database compiled by The Associated Press, USA Today and Northeastern University shows that there were more mass killings in 2019 than any year dating back to at least the 1970s, punctuated by a chilling succession of deadly rampages during the summer. In all, there were 41 mass killings, defined as when four or more people are killed excluding the perpetrator. Of those, 33 were mass shootings. More than 210 people were killed. Most of the mass killings barely became national news, failing to resonate among the general public because they didn't spill into public places like massacres in El Paso and Odessa, Texas; Dayton, Ohio; Virginia Beach, Virginia; and Jersey City, New Jersey. The majority of the killings involved people who knew each other — family disputes, drug or gang violence or people with beefs that directed their anger at co-workers or relatives. In many cases, what set off the perpetrator remains a mystery. That's the case with the very first mass killing of 2019, when a 42-year-old man took an ax and stabbed to death his mother, stepfather, girlfriend and 9-month-old daughter in Clackamas County, Oregon. Two others, a roommate and an 8-year-old girl managed to escape; the rampage ended when responding police fatally shot the killer. The perpetrator had had occasional run-ins with police over the years, but what drove him to attack his family remains unknown. He had just gotten a job training mechanics at an auto dealership, and despite occasional arguments with his relatives, most said there was nothing out of the ordinary that raised significant red flags. The incident in Oregon was one of 18 mass killings where family members were slain, and one of six that didn't involve a gun. Among other trends in 2019: — The 41 mass killings were the most in a single year since the AP/USA Today and Northeastern database began tracking such events back to 2006, but other research going back to the 1970s shows no other year with as many mass slayings. The second-most killings in a year prior to 2019 was 38 in 2006. — The 211 people killed in this year's cases is still eclipsed by the 224 victims in 2017, when the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history took place in Las Vegas. — California, with some of the most strict gun laws in the country, had the most, with eight such mass slayings. But nearly half of U.S. states experienced a mass slaying, from big cities like New York, to tiny towns like Elkmont, Alabama, with a population of just under 475 people. — Firearms were the weapon in all but eight of the mass killings. Other weapons included knives, axes and at least twice when the perpetrator set a mobile home on fire, killing those inside. — Nine mass shootings occurred in a public place. Other mass killings occurred in homes, in the workplace or at a bar. James Densley, a criminologist and professor at Metropolitan State University in Minnesota, said the AP/USA Today/Northeastern database confirms and mirrors what his own research into exclusively mass shootings has shown. “What makes this even more exceptional is that mass killings are going up at a time when general homicides, overall homicides, are going down,” Densley said. "As a percentage of homicides, these mass killings are also accounting for more deaths. ” He believes it's partially a byproduct of an “angry and frustrated time” that we are living in. Densley also said crime tends to go in waves with the 1970s and 1980s seeing a number of serial killers, the 1990s marked by school shootings and child abductions and the early 2000s dominated by concerns over terrorism. “This seems to be the age of mass shootings,” Densley said. He and James Alan Fox, a criminologist and professor at Northeastern University, also expressed worries about the “contagion effect,” the focus on mass killings fueling other mass killings. “These are still rare events. Clearly the risk is low but the fear is high,” Fox said. “What fuels contagion is fear.” [...] https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-mass-killing-hit-new-high-2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunday Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Is one now "Mass"? Well, if the girth of that one was large enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burncycle360 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) "Attempted mass shooting in Texas church thwarted when gunman was shot by... well everyone." *edit* (that was meant to be hyperbole, all involved showed excellent trigger discipline)Outstanding shooting by the armed defender, and trigger discipline for all the other armed citizens involved.When it takes on average 7 minutes for law enforcement to arrive after a call, there's no doubt that lives were saved, and without the ability for the law abiding to carry firearms this could have been vastly worse. Before people start on access to guns, even if none existed, maniacs intent to do harm to themselves or others will exist, and will always have the initiative, be it with a machete or F-150, the difference is the law abiding would not have an effective way to defend themselves. Narwhal tusks were not available, unfortunately, but would have made for a an appropriate coup de grâce...Unfortunately the bastard was able to kill someone before he was taken out, but it went about as well as it could have given the circumstances. Prayers to the family.(Warning: Video of the incident, NSFW)https://twitter.com/i/status/1211405161144487936 Edited December 29, 2019 by Burncycle360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 For those interested, here's a link to the video. The innocent victims being shot is blurred, the head shot of the shooter being killed is not.https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/29/watch-good-guy-gun-shoots-alleged-texas-church-shooter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Once more a good guy with a gun saves lots of lives. Gun control is for the mentally ill communists wanting to destroy our country. https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-attacked-texas-governor-for-signing-law-letting-churchgoers-carry-guns-totally-irrational Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 For those interested, here's a link to the video. The innocent victims being shot is blurred, the head shot of the shooter being killed is not.https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/29/watch-good-guy-gun-shoots-alleged-texas-church-shooter/Makes me happy, one more goblin gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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