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Ryan, the first person to make a political point on this thread was Murph. It's pretty much par for the course here.

Explicitly so yes. However, implicitly, this entire thread is political based on whom posted it and his previous posts on the subject.

 

Edited by rmgill
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7kBj9Yw.jpg?1

 

Well, at least he wore his ear protection. :unsure:

 

Can we please stop calling the rantings of murderous nutjobs "manifestos"? It only serves to romanticize these bastards.

 

RIP for the victims and their families.

 

The only way to cut down on deaths is to somehow plant their asses as fast as possible. There's too much upside to giving the world the middle finger by going out in a blaze of glory and innocent blood to think this will end anytime soon. I'll be interested to hear how they captured him without shooting him to pieces.

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Ryan, the first person to make a political point on this thread was Murph. It's pretty much par for the course here.

Explicitly so yes. However, implicitly, this entire thread is political based on whom posted it and his previous posts on the subject.

At this point you mention a shooting negatively and the fanatics consider it an affront to them.

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7kBj9Yw.jpg?1

Well, at least he wore his ear protection. :unsure:

 

Can we please stop calling the rantings of murderous nutjobs "manifestos"? It only serves to romanticize these bastards.

 

RIP for the victims and their families.

 

The only way to cut down on deaths is to somehow plant their asses as fast as possible. There's too much upside to giving the world the middle finger by going out in a blaze of glory and innocent blood to think this will end anytime soon. I'll be interested to hear how they captured him without shooting him to pieces.

Unless its a Muslim then they are a terrorist.

 

This kid was radicalized on the internet no differently than Islamic terrorists.

Edited by Paul G.
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I wish the media would stop publicizing the names, faces and "manifestos" of these lunatics. Don't give them the fame and exposure they crave.

 

Agreed generally

 

Perceived social media pressure will cause corporations to change what they sell or how they sell it (ie, flags, shoes, etc), or platforms to censor people. The problem is, then someone points out "well, if you're doing that, then what about this offensive thing? What about that injustice?" and it becomes a quagmire and they lose any semblance of having consistent policies.

 

Countries are no different. New Zealand should have said screw that guy, we've chosen a balance of liberty and security that caters to the vast majority of our populace -- the law abiding, and we aren't going to change our way of life, bend, bow or break to the demands of a crazy handful of people because our society won't be your hostage. We're not going to change who we are and sacrifice the rights of the vast majority of our populace, well beyond the point of diminishing returns, in order to take an ineffective swing at the radical few who will never be completely eliminated and will always exist. You get nothing. You get nothing out of this. But instead, they roll over and comply, and so why wouldn't other crazy nutjobs decide to follow suit?

Edited by Burncycle360
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I wish the media would stop publicizing the names, faces and "manifestos" of these lunatics. Don't give them the fame and exposure they crave.

 

Funny enough they did for one, and only one, the gay black liberal that gunned down the news crew on live tv.

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Surprising that the manifesto gunman was taken alive, considering the firepower that was assembled in response, and their penchant for saving the last bullet for themselves.

That suprises me as well. But this is Texas, and he will get the best legal representation that the taxpayers can provide when they charge him with Capital Murder.

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The only way to cut down on deaths is to somehow plant their asses as fast as possible. There's too much upside to giving the world the middle finger by going out in a blaze of glory and innocent blood to think this will end anytime soon. I'll be interested to hear how they captured him without shooting him to pieces.

 

 

Also, stop publicizing their names in grand glowing letters.

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I never understood why these guys bother with writing a manifesto themselves when they could just go to TankNet and copy-paste one of E5Ms posts from here.

You should get a job at MSNBC.

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Regarding multiple gunmen - people always report this in the confusion of a shooting. The only instance I can think of where this was actually true, other than proper multi-venue terrorist attacks like Mumbay and Paris, was the original Columbine incident. When I read this about an ongoing event, my immediate conclusion is "nope".

 

I also have to admit that such events only really register with me from about a dozen fatalities up anymore, at least in the US where you have come to kinda expect lesser incidents of this kind as part of your usual news diet. I suspect it's similar for others, and this is part of what's driving the sick competition among shooters for high body counts - if you kill merely a single-digit number of people, you might as well have stayed home because media exposure isn't worth the effort.

 

I also have no realistic near-term recipe against these events - no "ban all guns", no "arm everybody", no "ban hate speech", no "don't report on it", and I'm dubious about perspectives to tackle it as a mental/healthcare problem. In theory any of these might work, but in practice human nature, politics, basic rights and limited ressources will restrict impact, particularly in a society with the size, history and socio-economics of the US. So you accept it with a certain fatalism.

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Surprising that the manifesto gunman was taken alive, considering the firepower that was assembled in response, and their penchant for saving the last bullet for themselves.

 

Its not uncommon among White supremacists. They figure they are leading a movement, so they have to be alive to inspire. See Anders Brevick, the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting, or the New Zealand Mosque shootings.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7319085/El-Paso-shooter-Patrick-Crusius-21-posted-anti-Mexican-manifesto-online-20-minutes-shooting.html

Just nineteen minutes before the first shots rang out at an El Paso Walmart in what would go on to become the deadliest mass shooting of 2019, the man responsible for the killings allegedly uploaded a twisted and seething anti-immigrant manifesto to an online forum outlining his sickening motives.

The 2,300 word screed, attributed to the author P.Crucius on one website, speaks of a perceived ‘Hispanic invasion of Texas’, a detailed plan to segregate ethnic minorities into separate territories of the country, and expresses a belief that white people will soon be ‘ethnically replaced’.

Authorities say the the suspect behind Saturday’s mass shooting at the Cielo Vista Mall that killed at least 20 and injured 26 more, is the rightful author of the heinous document.

The suspect has been tentatively identified as 21-year-old Patrick Crusius, of Allen, Texas - a town some 645 miles from the scene of Saturday's massacre.

'F*** this is going to be so s*** but I can't wait any longer,' the author of the document wrote uploading it to the comment board. 'I'm probably going to die today.'

 

The manifesto, titled ‘The Inconvenient Truth’, begins declaring the imminent shooting to be inspired directly by the shootings of two mosques in Christchurch New Zealand earlier this year, which left 51 people dead.

‘Right now we have a manifesto from this individual - that indicates to some degree - it has a nexus to potential hate crime,’ El Paso Police Chief Greg Allen said in a press conference.

In the New Zealand killer’s manifesto, the author promoted a white supremacist theory called ‘the great replacement’.

In The Inconvenient Truth, the author voices a similar ideology but insists ‘this attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas’.

‘I am simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by an invasion,’ the author wrote.

The Cielo Vista Mall is a popular shopping destination for people both sides of the US-Mexico border.

On a weekend the city attracts droves of shoppers from Mexico, including from its Mexican sister city Ciudad Juarez, who flock to the mall and return back across the border with their groceries.

The author says he believes ‘American is rotting from the inside out,’ and speculates that ‘the heavy Hispanic population in Texas’ will make the state ‘a democratic stronghold’ for generations to come.

In addition to stating his ideological beliefs, the author discusses the type of weaponry he will be using in the looming massacre, making reference to an ‘AK47’ rife but insisting he’d rather have used something more powerful.

‘It’s not designed to shoot rounds quickly,’ the author says. ‘So it overheats massively after about 100 shots fired in quick succession.’

In Saturday’s shooting, Crusius is allegedly the man seen in surveillance footage walking in through the front entrance of the Cielo Vista Mall Walmart with an AK47-styled assault rifle.

The gunman, wearing what appears to be ear defenders and cargo pants, first opened fire in the parking lot outside the store, shooting and killing 'locals that were fundraising outside the Walmart selling water. Children and adults.'

He then walked through the front door in a calm and confident state, as if he was 'on a mission', a witness said.

The twenty-minute massacre that followed would go on to become the eighth deadliest in US history.

 

 

 

 

Do you know what I think they should do? I think they should go inside one of these places after a shooting, show the bodies, show the gore, show the cranial matter, live on TV. And rather then, maybe, politicians would get off their ass when the public uproar made them do something. Its the very censorship by the media that doesnt want to show anything horrifying that is making this continual process of mass murder acceptable. They are even advertising for it to proceed, by making it look halfway acceptable by censoring the gore, and citing the name of the murderer ever 5 minutes.

 

Do I think it will happen? No, of course it wont. Because this is less about informing the public than grabbing an audience share.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Its not uncommon among White supremacists. They figure they are leading a movement, so they have to be alive to inspire. See Anders Brevick, the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting, or the New Zealand Mosque shootings.

 

[...]

Do you know what I think they should do? I think they should go inside one of these places after a shooting, show the bodies, show the gore, show the cranial matter, live on TV. And rather then, maybe, politicians would get off their ass when the public uproar made them do something. Its the very censorship by the media that doesnt want to show anything horrifying that is making this continual process of mass murder acceptable. They are even advertising for it to proceed, by making it look halfway acceptable by censoring the gore, and citing the name of the murderer ever 5 minutes.

 

Do I think it will happen? No, of course it wont. Because this is less about informing the public than grabbing an audience share.

 

Also the guy who shot up a black church congregation in Charleston, VA in 2015.

 

Frankly, suggestions to show the carnage of attacks would generally be playing to the strategy of this kind of attacker. Same when right-wingers demand that the results of Islamist attacks, videos of beheadings should be run uncensored to make people "aware of what we're facing"; what they really want is to generate hate, which is exactly what Islamists want to trigger that big clash of civilizations.* White supremacists have likewise been explicit in their manifestos that they want to bring about a race war. The calculation is always that outrage by the attacked group will cause them to commit atrocities of their own, which will cause your own camp to retaliate, then it escalates into a decisive war of extermination, then you win.

 

Also, the Bellingcat piece is indeed interesting - but it, too, helps spreading the name and the aims of the attacker. You can't really escape that conundrum in informing the public.

 

 

* As an aside, at this point I have only a faint smile for people going on about how Europe is succumbing to Islamist terrorism. Between 34 and 84 people got killed just in the three most bloody mass shootings in the US each year since the Paris attacks; and between El Paso and the two guys who shot up their workplaces in Virginia Beach and Aurora, IL back in May and February respectively and a bar in Dayton while I was typing, 2019 is already in that bracket again.

Edited by BansheeOne
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Surprising that the manifesto gunman was taken alive, considering the firepower that was assembled in response, and their penchant for saving the last bullet for themselves.

Its not uncommon among White supremacists. They figure they are leading a movement, so they have to be alive to inspire. See Anders Brevick, the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting, or the New Zealand Mosque shootings.

 

Yes, it's embittered 'payback' types, like school and workplace shooters who want to off themselves in the process. For them it is more like expanded suicide.

White supremacists think that 'their side' will eventually win, they will be released and treated as war heroes and they get to live rest of their lives with 21 supermodels.

 

Was that garlic fest shooter in California also some white supremacist dude? I wonder if there is some organization or connection.

Edited by Yama
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