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Storm In A Teacup, Or Rn Vs. Iran


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If freedom of navigation of a distant gulf is a collective problem, why don't the rich countries that have have coastlines along it do something the fuck about it? Would we expect the Saudis to send vessels to police the English channel? Do we see the UAE sending warships to ward off China over the Spratleys?

 

I agree with Josh about the treaty. However, I am simply not getting Iran having the conventional military wherewithal to pose a significant threat to regional security. Shia paramilitary organisations if anything are proving a useful counter to state-sponsored Sunni terrorism. As for their nuclear ambitions, they know the US, Israel, UK and France would turn their cities into sheets of glass if they tried anything on with us. Did they sponsor and train terrorists to kill our troops? Yes, but our troops shouldn't have been there in the first place.

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Once again, im afraid it misses the point. It is not significant the Arabs in the gulf are freeloading bastards, we have known that for decades. What is significant is if they do nothing about it, and they wont, then someone else has to enforce freedom of navigation.

 

No, its not exclusively our problem. Its ALL our problem, but just because everyone else wants to ignore their responsiblity (well other than the US, Australia, Japan and us), then it doesnt mean WE dont have a responsibility also. We can not hide behind others cowardice and disinterest and pretend its someone elses problem. Its ALL our problem.

 

Yes, we should have kept the treaty, ive always said so. But lets not pretend that treaty made Iran cuddily and easy to deal with. If it had, its highly unlikely the deal would have fallen.

 

Why would terrorists care about countervalue targets? That would be most of the reason why they would do it.

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OK, acknowledging that the Gulf States are freeloaders, it is also the case that we import almost no oil from the Gulf - our main dependency, by far is LNG (96% of which comes from Qatar) and we only have around 2% annual usage storage capacity in the UK compared to 20% for France and Germany. We obviously urgently need more storage capacity to cater for a variety of possible peacetime disruptions to our LNG. [shameless cut and paste] The EIA estimates that 76% of the crude oil and condensate that moved through the Strait of Hormuz went to Asian markets in 2018. China, India, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore were the largest destinations for crude oil moving through the Strait of Hormuz to Asia, accounting for 65% of all Hormuz crude oil and condensate flows in 2018.[/shameless cut and paste] Where are the Chinese, Indian, Japanese, South Korean and Singaporean escort vessels?

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OK, acknowledging that the Gulf States are freeloaders, it is also the case that we import almost no oil from the Gulf - our main dependency, by far is LNG (96% of which comes from Qatar) and we only have around 2% annual usage storage capacity in the UK compared to 20% for France and Germany. We obviously urgently need more storage capacity to cater for a variety of possible peacetime disruptions to our LNG. [shameless cut and paste] The EIA estimates that 76% of the crude oil and condensate that moved through the Strait of Hormuz went to Asian markets in 2018. China, India, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore were the largest destinations for crude oil moving through the Strait of Hormuz to Asia, accounting for 65% of all Hormuz crude oil and condensate flows in 2018.[/shameless cut and paste] Where are the Chinese, Indian, Japanese, South Korean and Singaporean escort vessels?

 

Iran isn't going to threaten a PRC tanker since the PRC doesn't align with the US on many issues. India tends to not align much with the US either. Neither of these two countries cooperated with the oil embargo during Obama's term.

 

So then it comes down to the others. Japan is working on the possibility of dispatching the SDF there, having issued numourous official statements about the consideration is giving. Australia announced commitment but the escort mission wouldn't actually take place until next year IIRC. So there's time for Japan to figure out what it wants to do before Australia actually sets out on it. AFAIK, even the US doesn't have a specific time for the escort missions to begin. As for ROK, AFAIK no official statements about consideration in sending a ship to the escort missions but ROKS Kang Gam Chan (4,400 tons) to the Gulf of Aden for piracy patrols. Some speculate that if there is a call for it, that warship could be diverted to the Strait of Hormuz. Can't say anything about Singapore.

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If they are going to play the game of attacking individual countries' ships, selectively, why not have oil shipped in neutral, or preferably friendly to iran, shipping to a transhipping location?

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China is already building pipeline through Pakistan, but it ends at Gwadar. And even then, I suspect it will have some service interruptions. Afghanistan I think we can safely say is off the table.

 

ETA: the price tag is estimated at $10billion for a line that would carry 1 million barrels/day. That seems like a low ball offer considering it has to cross the Karakoram range.

Edited by Josh
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Sorry, I meant all oil to leave the Gulf by sea without having a final customer, so no ship could be targeted on the basis of nationality of end user. There is already a pipeline across Saudi Arabia, so that may be an alternative.

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The status quo wasn't ideal, but Iran had its nuclear program set back while also having controls on it that would prevent it from acquiring a bomb for ten years. If we had made that deal with the Soviet Union or North Korea or would have been considered a diplomatic coup. Throwing it away without having a replacement plan or even any will to militarily oppose Iran will be viewed historically as a massive mistake, particularly if it ends up provoking a costly war that involves Israel, Syria, and Lebanon to boot.

There was a replacement plan. Iran just didn't accept it.

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The status quo wasn't ideal, but Iran had its nuclear program set back while also having controls on it that would prevent it from acquiring a bomb for ten years. If we had made that deal with the Soviet Union or North Korea or would have been considered a diplomatic coup. Throwing it away without having a replacement plan or even any will to militarily oppose Iran will be viewed historically as a massive mistake, particularly if it ends up provoking a costly war that involves Israel, Syria, and Lebanon to boot.

There was a replacement plan. Iran just didn't accept it.

So the replacement plan was thinking positive thoughts instead of dealing with reality.

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The hope may have been that Iran would not accept the replacement plan in certain political quarters.

 

The release of 7 crewmembers by Tehran might qualify as a (faint) noise of reason from it.

 

Why would Iran accept Trump's deal when they can wait until 2020 and see whether a Democrat becomes President?

 

Fear.

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The Iranians are a stubborn people. If a giant meteor was to fall on Iran, and the Yanks shot it down, they would object that this was another clear example of American imperialism in action. Trump could offer the Iranians everything they wanted, and they might still refuse. Its Grumpy Cat as a nation.

 

I hear tell the Stella Impero is due to be released, as soon as they can get the paperwork sorted out. Im not holding my breath.

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It seems to me the whole history of the Royal Navy ruling the waves was to protect British commerce and to threaten that of Britain's enemies. Heck, even the pathetic 6 frigate navy of the young US was to stop the Barbary pirates from taking our shipping at their leisure. Danegeld was tried earnestly and failed utterly. What's the point of any blue water navy but to protect the SLOCs?

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If the original nuclear deal hadn't been scrapped, the status quo would have remained. Instead now Iran is running even more amok while also threatening tankers, and the current administration is unwilling to anything about either other than rely on sanctions to eventually change the regime. Britain got picked off for the Gibraltar tanker, but the broader message is that Iran will lean on anyone who leans on them, and likely no one else but the US can stop them from doing so.

Believe it or not, we're already almost halfway through the very limited "protections" of the Obama/Iran deal. After 10 years total, it's Katie bar the door on the whole gambit of nukes and missiles. How much peace was there in Syria and on Israel's northern border after Iran received the windfall of billions of dollars from the deal? In Iraq? The "deal" was a cruel hoax on behalf of an Obama legacy.

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The Iranians don't strike me as terrified at the moment, so why else would they make a deal with Trump rather than see whether a Democrat wins in 2020?

 

No, they do not. And if nothing changes in the intervening period, they likely won't.

 

They are indeed a proud people and culture in various ways.

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No, we never ran convoys off the coast of Germany. Normandy and Norway are not Germany. A commando raid is not a convoy.

 

I don't think you get how bizarre the current situation is. For many years we supplied other nations with energy in the form of coal. Did we ever insist on those customers sending fleets of warships to protect their coal shipments? Did we ever ask anyone to send ships to protect trade in our home waters whilst our own warships sat in port or cruised around doing bugger all? The choice is theirs. They want to sell their product, they can escort it out of the Gulf.

No, you chaps sent your ships out to protect YOUR trade ships and by virtue of that tended to also protect someone else's ships too, at least in part (If you sunk a pirate, it was good for everyone else). Mind, if France was shooting your customerss ships off the coast of dover, you'd certainly up and protected your customers. If Morocco did the same to your ships (or nations trading in your ports who had your ear) you'd also do the same.

 

Remember, the UK (and other countries) do such things on principle. Cheif among them was the 1807 Anti-Slavery Act.

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It seems to me the whole history of the Royal Navy ruling the waves was to protect British commerce and to threaten that of Britain's enemies. Heck, even the pathetic 6 frigate navy of the young US was to stop the Barbary pirates from taking our shipping at their leisure. Danegeld was tried earnestly and failed utterly. What's the point of any blue water navy but to protect the SLOCs?

 

I dont remotely disagree, but its worth pointing out the Royal Navy today actually has more Frigates than your own navy. Yours ditched them all in favour of LCS. We ALL have a lot to remember when it comes to commerce protection.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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More frigates...sure. Ok. What about the other stuff. You know bigger than frigates.

You might also have more wooden sailing ships in commission or in preservation too, but it's hardly the most important point of a navy.

Dang Formatting. Hang on a sec...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_ships_of_the_United_States_Navy#Commissioned


Ship name	Hull no.	Class	Type	Commission date	Homeport[2]	Note
USS Theodore Roosevelt	CVN-71	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	25 October 1986	San Diego, CA	[228]
USS Ronald Reagan	CVN-76	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	12 July 2003	Yokosuka, Japan	[195]
USS Nimitz	CVN-68	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	3 May 1975	Bremerton, WA	[163]
USS John C. Stennis	CVN-74	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	9 December 1995	Bremerton, WA	[110]
USS Harry S. Truman	CVN-75	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	25 July 1998	Norfolk, VA	[91]
USS Gerald R. Ford	CVN-78	Gerald R. Ford	Aircraft carrier	22 July 2017	Norfolk, VA	[78]
USS George Washington	CVN-73	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	4 July 1992	Norfolk, VA	[75]
USS George H.W. Bush	CVN-77	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	10 January 2009	Norfolk, VA	[76]
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower	CVN-69	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	18 October 1977	Norfolk, VA	[62]
USS Carl Vinson	CVN-70	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	13 March 1982	San Diego, CA	[32]
USS Abraham Lincoln	CVN-72	Nimitz	Aircraft carrier	11 November 1989	Norfolk, VA	[3]
USS Wasp	LHD-1	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	6 July 1989	Sasebo, Japan	[244]
USS Makin Island	LHD-8	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	24 October 2009	San Diego, CA	[132]
USS Kearsarge	LHD-3	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	16 October 1993	Norfolk, VA	[116]
USS Iwo Jima	LHD-7	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	30 June 2001	Mayport, FL	[104]
USS Essex	LHD-2	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	24 August 1992	San Diego, CA	[64]
USS Boxer	LHD-4	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	11 February 1995	San Diego, CA	[26]
USS Bonhomme Richard	LHD-6	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	15 August 1998	San Diego, CA	[25]
USS Bataan	LHD-5	Wasp	Amphibious assault ship	20 September 1997	Norfolk, VA	[20]
USS America	LHA-6	America	Amphibious assault ship	11 October 2014	San Diego, CA	[8]
USS Mount Whitney	LCC-20	Blue Ridge	Amphibious command ship	16 January 1971	Gaeta, Italy	[154]
USS Blue Ridge	LCC-19	Blue Ridge	Amphibious command ship	14 November 1970	Yokosuka, Japan	[23] Oldest deployed ship.
USS Somerset	LPD-25	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	1 March 2014	San Diego, CA	[215]
USS San Diego	LPD-22	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	19 May 2012	San Diego, CA	[202]
USS San Antonio	LPD-17	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	14 January 2006	Norfolk, VA	[201]
USS Portland	LPD-27	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	14 December 2017	San Diego, CA	[186]
USS New York	LPD-21	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	7 November 2009	Mayport, FL	[161]
USS New Orleans	LPD-18	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	5 March 2007	San Diego, CA	[160]
USS Mesa Verde	LPD-19	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	15 December 2007	Norfolk, VA	[138]
USS John P. Murtha	LPD-26	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	8 October 2016	San Diego, CA	[112]
USS Green Bay	LPD-20	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	24 January 2006	Sasebo, Japan	[84]
USS Arlington	LPD-24	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	6 April 2013	Norfolk, VA	[15]
USS Anchorage	LPD-23	San Antonio	Amphibious transport dock	4 May 2013	San Diego, CA	[9]
USS Washington	SSN-787	Virginia	Attack submarine	7 October 2017	Norfolk, VA	[243]
USS Virginia	SSN-774	Virginia	Attack submarine	23 October 2004	Groton, CT	[241]
USS Tucson	SSN-770	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	18 August 1995	Pearl Harbor, HI	[236]
USS Topeka	SSN-754	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	21 October 1989	San Diego, CA	[232]
USS Toledo	SSN-769	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	24 February 1995	Groton, CT	[231]
USS Texas	SSN-775	Virginia	Attack submarine	9 September 2006	Pearl Harbor, HI	[226]
USS Springfield	SSN-761	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	9 January 1993	Groton, CT	[217]
USS South Dakota	SSN-790	Virginia	Attack submarine	2 February 2019	Groton, CT	[216]
USS Seawolf	SSN-21	Seawolf	Attack submarine	19 July 1997	Bremerton, WA	[208]
USS Scranton	SSN-756	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	26 January 1991	Norfolk, VA	[207]
USS Santa Fe	SSN-763	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	8 January 1994	Pearl Harbor, HI	[205]
USS San Juan	SSN-751	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	6 August 1988	Groton, CT	[204]
USS Providence	SSN-719	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	27 July 1985	Groton, CT	[189] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2019[129]
USS Pasadena	SSN-752	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	11 February 1989	San Diego, CA	[175]
USS Olympia	SSN-717	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	17 November 1984	Pearl Harbor, HI	[172] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2020[29]
USS Oklahoma City	SSN-723	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	9 July 1988	Apra Harbor, GU	[171]
USS North Dakota	SSN-784	Virginia	Attack submarine	25 October 2014	Groton, CT	[167]
USS North Carolina	SSN-777	Virginia	Attack submarine	3 May 2008	Pearl Harbor, HI	[166]
USS Newport News	SSN-750	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	3 June 1989	Norfolk, VA	[162]
USS New Mexico	SSN-779	Virginia	Attack submarine	27 March 2010	Groton, CT	[159]
USS New Hampshire	SSN-778	Virginia	Attack submarine	25 October 2008	Groton, CT	[158]
USS Montpelier	SSN-765	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	13 March 1993	Norfolk, VA	[153]
USS Missouri	SSN-780	Virginia	Attack submarine	31 July 2010	Groton, CT	[146]
USS Mississippi	SSN-782	Virginia	Attack submarine	2 June 2012	Pearl Harbor, HI	[145]
USS Minnesota	SSN-783	Virginia	Attack submarine	7 September 2013	Groton, CT	[144]
USS Louisville	SSN-724	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	8 November 1986	Pearl Harbor, HI	[128] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2019[129]
USS Key West	SSN-722	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	12 September 1987	Apra Harbor, GU	[118]
USS John Warner	SSN-785	Virginia	Attack submarine	1 August 2015	Norfolk, VA	[115]
USS Jimmy Carter	SSN-23	Seawolf	Attack submarine	19 February 2005	Bangor, WA	[109]
USS Jefferson City	SSN-759	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	29 February 1992	San Diego, CA	[108]
USS Indiana	SSN-789	Virginia	Attack submarine	29 September 2018	Groton, CT	[103]
USS Illinois	SSN-786	Virginia	Attack submarine	29 October 2016	Groton, CT	[101]
USS Helena	SSN-725	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	11 July 1987	Norfolk, VA	[94] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2020[29]
USS Hawaii	SSN-776	Virginia	Attack submarine	5 May 2007	Pearl Harbor, HI	[93]
USS Hartford	SSN-768	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	10 December 1994	Groton, CT	[92]
USS Hampton	SSN-767	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	6 November 1993	San Diego, CA	[89]
USS Greeneville	SSN-772	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	16 February 1996	Pearl Harbor, HI	[85]
USS Connecticut	SSN-22	Seawolf	Attack submarine	11 December 1998	Bremerton, WA	[51]
USS Columbus	SSN-762	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	24 July 1993	Pearl Harbor, HI	[49]
USS Columbia	SSN-771	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	9 October 1995	Pearl Harbor, HI	[48]
USS Colorado	SSN-788	Virginia	Attack submarine	17 March 2018	Groton, CT	[47]
USS Chicago	SSN-721	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	27 September 1986	Apra Harbor, GU	[41]
USS Cheyenne	SSN-773	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	13 September 1996	Pearl Harbor, HI	[40]
USS Charlotte	SSN-766	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	16 September 1994	Pearl Harbor, HI	[39]
USS California	SSN-781	Virginia	Attack submarine	29 October 2011	Groton, CT	[30]
USS Boise	SSN-764	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	7 November 1992	Norfolk, VA	[24]
USS Asheville	SSN-758	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	28 September 1991	San Diego, CA	[16]
USS Annapolis	SSN-760	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	11 April 1992	Groton, CT	[10]
USS Alexandria	SSN-757	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	29 June 1991	Groton, CT	[7]
USS Albany	SSN-753	Los Angeles	Attack submarine	7 April 1990	Norfolk, VA	[6]
USS Wyoming	SSBN-742	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	13 July 1996	Kings Bay, GA	[252]
USS West Virginia	SSBN-736	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	20 October 1990	Kings Bay, GA	[246]
USS Tennessee	SSBN-734	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	17 December 1988	Kings Bay, GA	[225]
USS Rhode Island	SSBN-740	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	9 July 1994	Kings Bay, GA	[194]
USS Pennsylvania	SSBN-735	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	9 September 1989	Bangor, WA	[180]
USS Nevada	SSBN-733	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	16 August 1986	Bangor, WA	[157]
USS Nebraska	SSBN-739	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	10 July 1993	Bangor, WA	[156]
USS Maryland	SSBN-738	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	13 June 1992	Kings Bay, GA	[134]
USS Maine	SSBN-741	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	29 July 1995	Bangor, WA	[131]
USS Louisiana	SSBN-743	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	6 September 1997	Bangor, WA	[127]
USS Kentucky	SSBN-737	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	13 July 1991	Bangor, WA	[117]
USS Henry M. Jackson	SSBN-730	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	6 October 1984	Bangor, WA	[95]
USS Alaska	SSBN-732	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	25 January 1986	Kings Bay, GA	[5]
USS Alabama	SSBN-731	Ohio	Ballistic missile submarine	25 May 1985	Bangor, WA	[4]
USS Constitution	None	Original six frigates	Classic frigate	1 October 1797	Boston, MA	[52] The oldest commissioned vessel in the US Navy.
USS Vicksburg	CG-69	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	14 November 1992	Mayport, FL	[240]
USS Vella Gulf	CG-72	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	18 September 1993	Norfolk, VA	[239]
USS Shiloh	CG-67	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	18 July 1992	Yokosuka, Japan	[211]
USS San Jacinto	CG-56	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	23 January 1988	Norfolk, VA	[203]
USS Princeton	CG-59	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	11 February 1989	San Diego, CA	[188]
USS Port Royal	CG-73	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	4 July 1994	Pearl Harbor, HI	[184]
USS Philippine Sea	CG-58	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	18 March 1989	Mayport, FL	[181]
USS Normandy	CG-60	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	9 December 1989	Norfolk, VA	[165]
USS Monterey	CG-61	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	16 June 1990	Norfolk, VA	[151]
USS Mobile Bay	CG-53	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	21 February 1987	San Diego, CA	[148] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2020.
To be placed in the Reserve Fleet.[29]
USS Leyte Gulf	CG-55	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	26 September 1987	Norfolk, VA	[125]
USS Lake Erie	CG-70	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	10 May 1993	San Diego, CA	[122]
USS Lake Champlain	CG-57	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	12 August 1988	San Diego, CA	[121]
USS Hue City	CG-66	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	14 September 1991	Mayport, FL	[99]
USS Gettysburg	CG-64	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	22 June 1991	Mayport, FL	[80]
USS Cowpens	CG-63	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	9 March 1991	San Diego, CA	[54]
USS Chosin	CG-65	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	12 January 1991	Pearl Harbor, HI	[44]
USS Chancellorsville	CG-62	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	4 November 1989	Yokosuka, Japan	[37]
USS Cape St. George	CG-71	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	12 June 1993	San Diego, CA	[31]
USS Bunker Hill	CG-52	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	20 September 1986	San Diego, CA	[28] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2020.
To be placed in the Reserve Fleet.[29]
USS Anzio	CG-68	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	2 May 1992	Norfolk, VA	[12]
USS Antietam	CG-54	Ticonderoga	Cruiser	6 June 1987	Yokosuka, Japan	[11]
USS Zumwalt	DDG-1000	Zumwalt	Destroyer	15 October 2016	San Diego, CA	[254]
USS Winston S. Churchill	DDG-81	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	10 March 2001	Norfolk, VA	[250]
USS William P. Lawrence	DDG-110	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	19 May 2011	San Diego, CA	[249]
USS Wayne E. Meyer	DDG-108	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	10 October 2009	San Diego, CA	[245]
USS Truxtun	DDG-103	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	25 April 2009	Norfolk, VA	[235]
USS Thomas Hudner	DDG-116	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	1 December 2018	Mayport, FL	[229]
USS The Sullivans	DDG-68	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	19 April 1997	Mayport, FL	[227]
USS Stout	DDG-55	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	13 August 1994	Norfolk, VA	[223]
USS Stockdale	DDG-106	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	18 April 2009	San Diego, CA	[222]
USS Stethem	DDG-63	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	21 October 1995	Yokosuka, Japan	[221]
USS Sterett	DDG-104	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	9 August 2008	San Diego, CA	[220]
USS Spruance	DDG-111	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	1 September 2011	San Diego, CA	[218]
USS Shoup	DDG-86	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	22 June 2002	Everett, WA	[212]
USS Sampson	DDG-102	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	3 November 2007	Everett, WA	[200]
USS Russell	DDG-59	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	20 May 1995	San Diego, CA	[199]
USS Ross	DDG-71	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	28 June 1997	Rota, Spain	[197]
USS Roosevelt	DDG-80	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	14 October 2000	Mayport, FL	[196]
USS Ramage	DDG-61	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	22 July 1995	Norfolk, VA	[193]
USS Ralph Johnson	DDG-114	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	24 March 2018	Everett, WA	[192]
USS Rafael Peralta	DDG-115	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	29 July 2017	San Diego, CA	[191]
USS Preble	DDG-88	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	9 November 2002	Pearl Harbor, HI	[187]
USS Porter	DDG-78	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	20 March 1999	Rota, Spain	[185]
USS Pinckney	DDG-91	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	29 May 2004	San Diego, CA	[182]
USS Paul Ignatius	DDG-117	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	27 July 2019	Mayport, FL	[178]
USS Paul Hamilton	DDG-60	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	27 May 1995	Pearl Harbor, HI	[177]
USS Oscar Austin	DDG-79	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	19 August 2000	Norfolk, VA	[174]
USS O'Kane	DDG-77	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	23 October 1999	Pearl Harbor, HI	[168]
USS Nitze	DDG-94	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	5 March 2005	Norfolk, VA	[164]
USS Mustin	DDG-89	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	26 July 2003	Yokosuka, Japan	[155]
USS Momsen	DDG-92	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	28 August 2004	Everett, WA	[149]
USS Mitscher	DDG-57	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	10 December 1994	Norfolk, VA	[147]
USS Milius	DDG-69	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	23 November 1996	San Diego, CA	[142]
USS Michael Murphy	DDG-112	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	5 September 2012	Pearl Harbor, HI	[140]
USS Michael Monsoor	DDG-1001	Zumwalt	Destroyer	26 January 2019	San Diego, CA	[139]
USS McFaul	DDG-74	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	25 April 1998	Norfolk, VA	[137]
USS McCampbell	DDG-85	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	17 August 2002	Yokosuka, Japan	[136]
USS Mason	DDG-87	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	12 April 2003	Norfolk, VA	[135]
USS Mahan	DDG-72	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	14 February 1998	Norfolk, VA	[130]
USS Lassen	DDG-82	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	21 April 2001	Yokosuka, Japan	[123]
USS Laboon	DDG-58	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	18 March 1995	Norfolk, VA	[120]
USS Kidd	DDG-100	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	9 June 2007	San Diego, CA	[119]
USS John S. McCain	DDG-56	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	2 July 1994	Yokosuka, Japan	[114]
USS John Paul Jones	DDG-53	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	18 December 1993	Pearl Harbor, HI	[113]
USS John Finn	DDG-113	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	15 July 2017	San Diego, CA	[111]
USS Jason Dunham	DDG-109	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	13 November 2010	Norfolk, VA	[107]
USS James E. Williams	DDG-95	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	11 December 2004	Norfolk, VA	[106]
USS Howard	DDG-83	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	20 October 2001	San Diego, CA	[98]
USS Hopper	DDG-70	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	6 September 1997	Pearl Harbor, HI	[97]
USS Higgins	DDG-76	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	24 April 1999	San Diego, CA	[96]
USS Halsey	DDG-97	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	30 July 2005	Pearl Harbor, HI	[88]
USS Gridley	DDG-101	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	10 February 2007	Everett, WA	[86]
USS Gravely	DDG-107	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	20 November 2010	Norfolk, VA	[83]
USS Gonzalez	DDG-66	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	12 October 1996	Norfolk, VA	[82]
USS Forrest Sherman	DDG-98	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	28 January 2006	Norfolk, VA	[69]
USS Fitzgerald	DDG-62	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	14 October 1995	Yokosuka, Japan	[67]
USS Farragut	DDG-99	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	10 June 2006	Mayport, FL	[65]
USS Donald Cook	DDG-75	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	4 December 1998	Rota, Spain	[61]
USS Dewey	DDG-105	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	6 March 2010	San Diego, CA	[59]
USS Decatur	DDG-73	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	29 August 1998	San Diego, CA	[56]
USS Curtis Wilbur	DDG-54	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	19 March 1994	Yokosuka, Japan	[55]
USS Cole	DDG-67	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	8 June 1996	Norfolk, VA	[46]
USS Chung-Hoon	DDG-93	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	18 September 2004	Pearl Harbor, HI	[45]
USS Chafee	DDG-90	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	18 October 2003	Pearl Harbor, HI	[35]
USS Carney	DDG-64	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	13 April 1996	Rota, Spain	[33]
USS Bulkeley	DDG-84	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	8 December 2001	Norfolk, VA	[27]
USS Benfold	DDG-65	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	30 March 1996	San Diego, CA	[21]
USS Barry	DDG-52	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	12 December 1992	Yokosuka, Japan	[19]
USS Bainbridge	DDG-96	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	12 November 2005	Norfolk, VA	[18]
USS Arleigh Burke	DDG-51	Arleigh Burke	Destroyer	4 July 1991	Norfolk, VA	[14]
USS Whidbey Island	LSD-41	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	9 February 1985	Little Creek, VA	[247]
USS Tortuga	LSD-46	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	17 November 1990	Little Creek, VA	[234]
USS Rushmore	LSD-47	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	1 June 1991	San Diego, CA	[198]
USS Pearl Harbor	LSD-52	Harpers Ferry	Dock landing ship	27 April 1998	San Diego, CA	[179]
USS Oak Hill	LSD-51	Harpers Ferry	Dock landing ship	8 June 1996	Norfolk, VA	[169]
USS Harpers Ferry	LSD-49	Harpers Ferry	Dock landing ship	7 January 1995	San Diego, CA	[90]
USS Gunston Hall	LSD-44	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	22 April 1989	Norfolk, VA	[87]
USS Germantown	LSD-42	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	8 February 1986	Sasebo, Japan	[79]
USS Fort McHenry	LSD-43	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	8 August 1987	Mayport, FL	[70]
USS Comstock	LSD-45	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	3 February 1990	San Diego, CA	[50]
USS Carter Hall	LSD-50	Harpers Ferry	Dock landing ship	30 September 1995	Little Creek, VA	[34]
USS Ashland	LSD-48	Whidbey Island	Dock landing ship	9 May 1992	Sasebo, Japan	[17]
USS Lewis B. Puller	ESB-3	Montford Point	Expeditionary mobile base	17 August 2017	Norfolk, VA	[124]
USS Ohio	SSGN-726	Ohio	Guided missile submarine	11 November 1981	Bangor, WA	[170]
USS Michigan	SSGN-727	Ohio	Guided missile submarine	11 September 1982	Bangor, WA	[141]
USS Georgia	SSGN-729	Ohio	Guided missile submarine	11 February 1984	Kings Bay, GA	[77]
USS Florida	SSGN-728	Ohio	Guided missile submarine	18 June 1983	Kings Bay, GA	[68]
USS Wichita	LCS-13	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	12 January 2019	Mayport, FL	[251]
USS Tulsa	LCS-16	Independence	Littoral combat ship	16 February 2019	San Diego, CA	[237]
USS Sioux City	LCS-11	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	17 November 2018	Mayport, FL	[213]
USS Omaha	LCS-12	Independence	Littoral combat ship	3 February 2018	San Diego, CA	[173]
USS Montgomery	LCS-8	Independence	Littoral combat ship	10 September 2016	San Diego, CA	[152]
USS Milwaukee	LCS-5	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	21 November 2015	Mayport, FL	[143]
USS Manchester	LCS-14	Independence	Littoral combat ship	26 May 2018	San Diego, CA	[133]
USS Little Rock	LCS-9	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	16 December 2017	Mayport, FL	[126]
USS Jackson	LCS-6	Independence	Littoral combat ship	5 December 2015	San Diego, CA	[105]
USS Independence	LCS-2	Independence	Littoral combat ship	16 January 2010	San Diego, CA	[102]
USS Gabrielle Giffords	LCS-10	Independence	Littoral combat ship	10 June 2017	San Diego, CA	[74]
USS Freedom	LCS-1	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	8 November 2008	San Diego, CA	[73]
USS Fort Worth	LCS-3	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	6 August 2012	San Diego, CA	[71]
USS Detroit	LCS-7	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	22 October 2016	Mayport, FL	[57]
USS Coronado	LCS-4	Independence	Littoral combat ship	27 January 2014	San Diego, CA	[53]
USS Charleston	LCS-18	Independence	Littoral combat ship	2 March 2019	San Diego, CA	[38]
USS Billings	LCS-15	Freedom	Littoral combat ship	3 August 2019	Mayport, FL	[22]
USS Warrior	MCM-10	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	7 April 1993	Sasebo, Japan	[242]
USS Sentry	MCM-3	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	2 September 1989	San Diego, CA	[209] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2019[29]
USS Scout	MCM-8	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	15 December 1990	Manama, Bahrain	[206]
USS Pioneer	MCM-9	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	7 December 1992	Sasebo, Japan	[183]
USS Patriot	MCM-7	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	18 October 1991	Sasebo, Japan	[176]
USS Gladiator	MCM-11	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	18 September 1993	Manama, Bahrain	[81]
USS Dextrous	MCM-13	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	9 July 1994	Manama, Bahrain	[60]
USS Devastator	MCM-6	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	6 October 1990	San Diego, CA	[58] Scheduled for decommissioning in 2020[29]
USS Chief	MCM-14	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	5 November 1994	Sasebo, Japan	[42]
USS Champion	MCM-4	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	8 February 1991	San Diego, CA	[36]
USS Ardent	MCM-12	Avenger	Mine countermeasures ship	18 February 1994	Manama, Bahrain	[13]
USS Zephyr	PC-8	Cyclone	Patrol boat	15 October 1994	Mayport, FL	[253]
USS Whirlwind	PC-11	Cyclone	Patrol boat	1 July 1995	Manama, Bahrain	[248]
USS Typhoon	PC-5	Cyclone	Patrol boat	12 February 1994	Manama, Bahrain	[238]
USS Tornado	PC-14	Cyclone	Patrol boat	24 June 2000	Mayport, FL	[233]
USS Thunderbolt	PC-12	Cyclone	Patrol boat	7 October 1995	Manama, Bahrain	[230]
USS Tempest	PC-2	Cyclone	Patrol boat	21 August 1993	Manama, Bahrain	[224]
USS Squall	PC-7	Cyclone	Patrol boat	4 July 1994	Manama, Bahrain	[219]
USS Sirocco	PC-6	Cyclone	Patrol boat	11 June 1994	Manama, Bahrain	[214]
USS Shamal	PC-13	Cyclone	Patrol boat	27 January 1996	Mayport, FL	[210]
USS Monsoon	PC-4	Cyclone	Patrol boat	22 January 1994	Manama, Bahrain	[150]
USS Hurricane	PC-3	Cyclone	Patrol boat	15 October 1993	Manama, Bahrain	[100]
USS Firebolt	PC-10	Cyclone	Patrol boat	10 June 1995	Manama, Bahrain	[66]
USS Chinook	PC-9	Cyclone	Patrol boat	28 January 1995	Manama, Bahrain	[43]
USS Frank Cable	AS-40	Emory S. Land	Submarine tender	29 October 1979	Apra Harbor, GU	[72]
USS Emory S. Land	AS-39	Emory S. Land	Submarine tender	7 July 1979	Apra Harbor, GU	[63]
Edited by rmgill
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You know full well you dont have enough aircraft carriers to go around as it stands, which is why the USN was so excited about the Royal Navy taking delivery of 2 baby carriers. None of that is much use for escorting merchants, which is something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut as it stands. How long is an F18E going to remain on station? And whats it going to do against Submarines or mines?

 

Escorting ships require cheap, reliable, long range vessels like Frigates. Thats what they were for. Destroyers are too expensive to be a substitute, and that was true even in WW2. Its a racehorse pulling a cart. The USN and many other navies got out of this business because they figured commerce protection was over with the end of the cold war. This is proving to be a mistake.

 

It doesnt matter how many warships you have, if you have none suitable to carry out the role. How well did Tico class cruisers fulfill the role of merchant escort in the Persian Gulf? In theory, very well. In practice, not well at all, because they were not designed or trained to fulfill that role.

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If the original nuclear deal hadn't been scrapped, the status quo would have remained. Instead now Iran is running even more amok while also threatening tankers, and the current administration is unwilling to anything about either other than rely on sanctions to eventually change the regime. Britain got picked off for the Gibraltar tanker, but the broader message is that Iran will lean on anyone who leans on them, and likely no one else but the US can stop them from doing so.

Believe it or not, we're already almost halfway through the very limited "protections" of the Obama/Iran deal. After 10 years total, it's Katie bar the door on the whole gambit of nukes and missiles. How much peace was there in Syria and on Israel's northern border after Iran received the windfall of billions of dollars from the deal? In Iraq? The "deal" was a cruel hoax on behalf of an Obama legacy.

 

 

So what would recommend now that they are enriching and building new centrifuges six years ahead of time?

Edited by Josh
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