Tanker War Redux

[Tim the Tank Nut]

All the more reason for you to sink it first. The ship was in Omani waters. Launch your strike from there.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah, they wouldnt have a leg to stand on would they?

[seahawk]

Well, one could also look at Oman and the Gulf States to protect their territorial waters.

[Nobu]

An Astute class no less. Sending an asset of that value to the gulf is a mistake.

[BansheeOne]

Apropos of Brexit, Hunt being the pro-European contender for Tory leadership, it's hard to not see this as a campaign move. And I can see various partners go along with it for just that reason.

 

Britain to seek European maritime mission to counter Iran's 'piracy'

 

(Reuters) - Britain will seek to put together a European-led maritime protection mission to ensure safe shipping through the Strait of Hormuz after Iran seized a British-flagged vessel in what London said was an act of "state piracy".

 

Iran's Revolutionary Guards seized the Stena Impero in the Strait on Friday. British Royal Marines seized an Iranian tanker off the coast of Gibraltar two weeks ago.

 

"Under international law Iran had no right to obstruct the ship's passage - let alone board her. It was therefore an act of state piracy," Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt told parliament.

 

"We will now seek to put together a European-led maritime protection mission to support safe passage of both crew and cargo in this vital region," Hunt said.

 

He said Britain has had constructive discussions with a number of countries in the last 48 hours over the mission.

 

He also said he would discuss how this would complement U.S. proposals in the area but that Britain would not join the U.S. plan as it wanted to preserve the nuclear deal.

 

"It will not be part of the US maximum pressure policy on Iran because we remain committed to preserving the Iran nuclear agreement," Hunt said.

 

Britain will now ask all British-flagged ships to give the government notice of intentions to pass through the Strait of Hormuz, Hunt said.

 

"We will then advise them as to the safest way to transit, which may involve traveling in convoy," Hunt said, adding that Britain would also strengthen measures to protect ships flying the flags of other countries but which had British crew.

 

[...]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UH1X7

[Josh]

 

Well the plan was they would feel intimidated by our warship. Which im not saying was a good plan, but....

 

Sure it does. Its a simple bandwidth problem. Its certainly been plenty obvious for years that we dont spend enough on defence, but there recent events of Brexit (not least the Machiavellian fate of Gavin Williamson) is all evidence of the inability to think beyond that single issue. Even Salisbury was a momentary gap between thinking about Brexit.

You have to remember, a lot of these are not particularly smart guys, and the immediate prospect of being out of power due to Brexit probably focuses a lot more minds than Iran. Or a least, did.

 

Its funny how our politicians keep forgetting and relearning the old lesson, you can forget about Defence, but it wont forget about YOU.

Sure fine, the Brexit boogeyman is the cause of all of Britain's problems. The UK was completely unprepared for the obvious and openly stated threat by Iran and failed to inform shipping. Yes, I know, the seizing of the Iranian tanker was all Trump's fault and the UK couldn't just refuse if they thought it was daft. As I said earlier, no one seems to have been prepared for Iran to behave like Iran. They'd better have a plan now or Iran is going to have one heck of a tanker collection before too long. It would be nice if the plan were something different than the usual US does all the heavy lifting one. Especially since we don't need PG oil.

 

To be fair, yes that is the original source of the problem. The US had a deal with Iran that it threw away and now the US is powerless to stop Iran because someone realized it isn't worth another war to make a better deal.

[Josh]

 

 

 

Well the plan was they would feel intimidated by our warship. Which im not saying was a good plan, but....

 

Sure it does. Its a simple bandwidth problem. Its certainly been plenty obvious for years that we dont spend enough on defence, but there recent events of Brexit (not least the Machiavellian fate of Gavin Williamson) is all evidence of the inability to think beyond that single issue. Even Salisbury was a momentary gap between thinking about Brexit.

You have to remember, a lot of these are not particularly smart guys, and the immediate prospect of being out of power due to Brexit probably focuses a lot more minds than Iran. Or a least, did.

 

Its funny how our politicians keep forgetting and relearning the old lesson, you can forget about Defence, but it wont forget about YOU.

Sure fine, the Brexit boogeyman is the cause of all of Britain's problems. The UK was completely unprepared for the obvious and openly stated threat by Iran and failed to inform shipping. Yes, I know, the seizing of the Iranian tanker was all Trump's fault and the UK couldn't just refuse if they thought it was daft. As I said earlier, no one seems to have been prepared for Iran to behave like Iran. They'd better have a plan now or Iran is going to have one heck of a tanker collection before too long. It would be nice if the plan were something different than the usual US does all the heavy lifting one. Especially since we don't need PG oil.

 

 

Well lets look at the facts.

 

1 We are in a leadership contest. The PM is outgoing and is unlikely to want to make major decisions that are going to be dumped in the lap of the next incumbent. Think George Bush's decision to intervene in Somalia, dumping it in the Lap of Bill Clinton and you see my point.

2 One of those in the leadership contest is the Foreign Secretary, who is manfully trying to manage our Foreign Policy at the same time as trying to be the next PM. The candle cant burn at both ends.

3 The Chancellor is probably going to step down, based on not wanting Boris Johnson as PM, and they need him to pay any outstanding bills.

4 The Defence Secretary is a Brexiteer, who is probably as distracted as everyone else is by the leadership contest. If Hunt wins, she gets more money. If Bojo wins, she doesnt but gets the Brexit she wants.

 

All of this means at the moment we are paralyzed. I find it extraordinary that nobody outside the UK really appreciates how much bandwidth is taken up with this crap.

 

Lets look at it from the other point of view, was the USN any better prepared to deal with this crisis? No. They even got out of the maritime escort role. Was anyone else better placed? No. So we are just one among a number of nations taking their eye off the ball.

 

I will say this, its really about time Panama invested in a Navy.

 

 

So then don't take an action you know the Iranians will respond aggressively to. Look at what's going on in the US, and yet we can manage to get out of bed in the morning. It's a bullshit excuse for gross incompetence. As for everyone else, I've said just that, no one seems to have been ready. Well, they'd better be now because Iran is feeling their oats.

 

The UK did it because the US asked them to. And regardless of how bad the special relationship is right now with the current asshole administration, they still have to share their nuclear deterrent with the US.

[Josh]

An Astute class no less. Sending an asset of that value to the gulf is a mistake.

 

Agreed, but one the USN routinely makes. In fact the US usually keeps a carrier in those waters, in what has to be the most misappropriated use of resources even by American standards.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

 

 

Well the plan was they would feel intimidated by our warship. Which im not saying was a good plan, but....

 

Sure it does. Its a simple bandwidth problem. Its certainly been plenty obvious for years that we dont spend enough on defence, but there recent events of Brexit (not least the Machiavellian fate of Gavin Williamson) is all evidence of the inability to think beyond that single issue. Even Salisbury was a momentary gap between thinking about Brexit.

You have to remember, a lot of these are not particularly smart guys, and the immediate prospect of being out of power due to Brexit probably focuses a lot more minds than Iran. Or a least, did.

 

Its funny how our politicians keep forgetting and relearning the old lesson, you can forget about Defence, but it wont forget about YOU.

Sure fine, the Brexit boogeyman is the cause of all of Britain's problems. The UK was completely unprepared for the obvious and openly stated threat by Iran and failed to inform shipping. Yes, I know, the seizing of the Iranian tanker was all Trump's fault and the UK couldn't just refuse if they thought it was daft. As I said earlier, no one seems to have been prepared for Iran to behave like Iran. They'd better have a plan now or Iran is going to have one heck of a tanker collection before too long. It would be nice if the plan were something different than the usual US does all the heavy lifting one. Especially since we don't need PG oil.

 

 

Well lets look at the facts.

 

1 We are in a leadership contest. The PM is outgoing and is unlikely to want to make major decisions that are going to be dumped in the lap of the next incumbent. Think George Bush's decision to intervene in Somalia, dumping it in the Lap of Bill Clinton and you see my point.

2 One of those in the leadership contest is the Foreign Secretary, who is manfully trying to manage our Foreign Policy at the same time as trying to be the next PM. The candle cant burn at both ends.

3 The Chancellor is probably going to step down, based on not wanting Boris Johnson as PM, and they need him to pay any outstanding bills.

4 The Defence Secretary is a Brexiteer, who is probably as distracted as everyone else is by the leadership contest. If Hunt wins, she gets more money. If Bojo wins, she doesnt but gets the Brexit she wants.

 

All of this means at the moment we are paralyzed. I find it extraordinary that nobody outside the UK really appreciates how much bandwidth is taken up with this crap.

 

Lets look at it from the other point of view, was the USN any better prepared to deal with this crisis? No. They even got out of the maritime escort role. Was anyone else better placed? No. So we are just one among a number of nations taking their eye off the ball.

 

I will say this, its really about time Panama invested in a Navy.

 

 

So then don't take an action you know the Iranians will respond aggressively to. Look at what's going on in the US, and yet we can manage to get out of bed in the morning. It's a bullshit excuse for gross incompetence. As for everyone else, I've said just that, no one seems to have been ready. Well, they'd better be now because Iran is feeling their oats.

 

The UK did it because the US asked them to. And regardless of how bad the special relationship is right now with the current asshole administration, they still have to share their nuclear deterrent with the US.

 

 

No, we seized the Grace 1 because Gibraltar pointed out it was violating EU sanctions.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Apropos of Brexit, Hunt being the pro-European contender for Tory leadership, it's hard to not see this as a campaign move. And I can see various partners go along with it for just that reason.

 

Britain to seek European maritime mission to counter Iran's 'piracy'

 

(Reuters) - Britain will seek to put together a European-led maritime protection mission to ensure safe shipping through the Strait of Hormuz after Iran seized a British-flagged vessel in what London said was an act of "state piracy".

 

Iran's Revolutionary Guards seized the Stena Impero in the Strait on Friday. British Royal Marines seized an Iranian tanker off the coast of Gibraltar two weeks ago.

 

"Under international law Iran had no right to obstruct the ship's passage - let alone board her. It was therefore an act of state piracy," Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt told parliament.

 

"We will now seek to put together a European-led maritime protection mission to support safe passage of both crew and cargo in this vital region," Hunt said.

 

He said Britain has had constructive discussions with a number of countries in the last 48 hours over the mission.

 

He also said he would discuss how this would complement U.S. proposals in the area but that Britain would not join the U.S. plan as it wanted to preserve the nuclear deal.

 

"It will not be part of the US maximum pressure policy on Iran because we remain committed to preserving the Iran nuclear agreement," Hunt said.

 

Britain will now ask all British-flagged ships to give the government notice of intentions to pass through the Strait of Hormuz, Hunt said.

 

"We will then advise them as to the safest way to transit, which may involve traveling in convoy," Hunt said, adding that Britain would also strengthen measures to protect ships flying the flags of other countries but which had British crew.

 

[...]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UH1X7

 

 

Probably too late, the votes finished.

 

OTOH, if he gets the job, they might throw him a bone just to build up his presence in parliament. We shall see.

[BansheeOne]

Oh, I didn't know.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Good idea through.

[Jeff]

 

 

 

 

Well the plan was they would feel intimidated by our warship. Which im not saying was a good plan, but....

 

Sure it does. Its a simple bandwidth problem. Its certainly been plenty obvious for years that we dont spend enough on defence, but there recent events of Brexit (not least the Machiavellian fate of Gavin Williamson) is all evidence of the inability to think beyond that single issue. Even Salisbury was a momentary gap between thinking about Brexit.

You have to remember, a lot of these are not particularly smart guys, and the immediate prospect of being out of power due to Brexit probably focuses a lot more minds than Iran. Or a least, did.

 

Its funny how our politicians keep forgetting and relearning the old lesson, you can forget about Defence, but it wont forget about YOU.

Sure fine, the Brexit boogeyman is the cause of all of Britain's problems. The UK was completely unprepared for the obvious and openly stated threat by Iran and failed to inform shipping. Yes, I know, the seizing of the Iranian tanker was all Trump's fault and the UK couldn't just refuse if they thought it was daft. As I said earlier, no one seems to have been prepared for Iran to behave like Iran. They'd better have a plan now or Iran is going to have one heck of a tanker collection before too long. It would be nice if the plan were something different than the usual US does all the heavy lifting one. Especially since we don't need PG oil.

 

 

Well lets look at the facts.

 

1 We are in a leadership contest. The PM is outgoing and is unlikely to want to make major decisions that are going to be dumped in the lap of the next incumbent. Think George Bush's decision to intervene in Somalia, dumping it in the Lap of Bill Clinton and you see my point.

2 One of those in the leadership contest is the Foreign Secretary, who is manfully trying to manage our Foreign Policy at the same time as trying to be the next PM. The candle cant burn at both ends.

3 The Chancellor is probably going to step down, based on not wanting Boris Johnson as PM, and they need him to pay any outstanding bills.

4 The Defence Secretary is a Brexiteer, who is probably as distracted as everyone else is by the leadership contest. If Hunt wins, she gets more money. If Bojo wins, she doesnt but gets the Brexit she wants.

 

All of this means at the moment we are paralyzed. I find it extraordinary that nobody outside the UK really appreciates how much bandwidth is taken up with this crap.

 

Lets look at it from the other point of view, was the USN any better prepared to deal with this crisis? No. They even got out of the maritime escort role. Was anyone else better placed? No. So we are just one among a number of nations taking their eye off the ball.

 

I will say this, its really about time Panama invested in a Navy.

 

 

So then don't take an action you know the Iranians will respond aggressively to. Look at what's going on in the US, and yet we can manage to get out of bed in the morning. It's a bullshit excuse for gross incompetence. As for everyone else, I've said just that, no one seems to have been ready. Well, they'd better be now because Iran is feeling their oats.

 

The UK did it because the US asked them to. And regardless of how bad the special relationship is right now with the current asshole administration, they still have to share their nuclear deterrent with the US.

 

 

Even though they had zero plan to protect their shipping from an obvious and telegraphed Iranian response, good gravy man, step away from the TDS for just a minute once in a while.

[JasonJ]

Bolton visiting Japan to talk about Iran.

TOKYO (AP) — U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton has held talks with Japanese officials, presumably to discuss a U.S.-led military coalition to safeguard shipping in the Strait of Hormuz amid escalating tensions in the region.

 

Japan, whose use of force is limited to self-defense of itself and its allies under its pacifist constitution, is cautious about a military coalition.

 

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe says he wants to learn more about Washington's intentions before deciding if or how Japan can cooperate.

 

Bolton, after meeting with Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Kono on Monday, said they "covered a lot of ground," but did not elaborate.

 

Japanese media said Bolton might also discuss an escalating spat between Japan and South Korea over trade and wartime labor issues.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3749569

[DKTanker]

 

Even though they had zero plan to protect their shipping from an obvious and telegraphed Iranian response, good gravy man, step away from the TDS for just a minute once in a while.

 

Some people are so shallow and predictable I don't even bother putting them on ignore. I simply ignore them.

[JasonJ]

US puts sanctions on PRC oil company.

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has sanctioned Chinese state-run energy company Zhuhai Zhenrong Co Ltd for allegedly violating restrictions imposed on Iran’s oil sector, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a speech on Monday.

 

“We’ve said that we will sanction any sanctionable behavior, and we mean it,” Pompeo said in a speech in Florida in which he announced the move.

 

It comes amid increased tensions between Iran and the West as well as between the United States and China, which have been engaged in a major trade war.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration has stepped up its sanctions against Iran after breaking from a nuclear pact brokered between Tehran and other Western nations under the previous administration of President Barack Obama.

 

In a later statement, Pompeo said Zhuhai Zhenrong “knowingly engaged in a significant transaction for the purchase or acquisition of crude oil from Iran” after the expiration of a U.S. sanctions waiver covering China on May 2.

 

He said the sanctions blocked all property and interests in property of Zhuhai Zhenrong in the United States and barred its chief executive, Youmin Li, from entry into the country.

 

“Any entity considering evading our sanctions should take notice of this action today,” Pompeo said. “It underscores our commitment to enforcement and to holding the Iranian regime accountable.”

 

China’s embassy in Washington rejected the U.S. stance.

 

“China firmly opposes the U.S. imposition of unilateral sanctions and so-called ‘long-arm jurisdiction’ on China and other countries invoking its domestic law,” a spokesperson said by email.

 

“We urge the U.S. to immediately correct its wrongdoing and earnestly respect other parties’ legal rights and interests.”Zhuhai Zhenrong, which specializes mainly in buying Iranian oil and is based in Beijing, was previously sanctioned in 2012 by the Obama administration over its dealings with Iran.

 

The company is now a subsidiary of Macau-based, state-controlled conglomerate Nam Kwong Group.

 

Analysts at ClearView Energy Partners said Zhuhai Zhenrong is largely disconnected from the Chinese financial system, which would limit the “contagion” of the sanctions to other entities and banking systems. But they said Washington’s move was another shot across the bow to demonstrate the Trump administration’s stance on Iran.

 

“We see the shot as being aimed just at China, but also at other potential buyers,” such as Turkey and possibly Russia, which could serve as a middleman for brokering oil from Iran to other countries, ClearView said.

 

The United States reimposed sanctions on Iran in November after pulling out of the 2015 nuclear accord between Tehran and six world powers.

 

Last month, the U.S. special representative for Iran, Brian Hook, said Washington would sanction any country that continued to import Iranian oil and warned that it would look at reports of Iranian crude going to China.

 

According to data from government and trade sources, Asia’s crude oil imports from Iran fell in May to the lowest in at least five years after China and India wound down purchases amid U.S. sanctions, while Japan and South Korea halted imports.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-china-sanctions/us-sanctions-chinese-oil-buyer-over-alleged-iran-violations-idUSKCN1UH1UO

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well thats a welcome departure. Up to now they havent put sanctions on any PRC companies.

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7275763/Iran-warns-following-enemy-ships-especially-American.html

Iran is watching every enemy ship in the Gulf, the head of the Iranian navy boasted today, in a thinly-veiled threat that Tehran's Revolutionary Guards could strike again against Western shipping.

Tehran's 'world-leading' drones are following 'all enemy ships, particularly America' and taking pictures 'point-by-point from their origin until the moment they enter the region', rear admiral Hossein Khanzadi claimed.

'We have complete images and a large archive of the daily and moment-by-moment traffic of the coalition forces and America,' he said.

Iran has already captured one UK tanker, the Stena Impero, in a dramatic seizure last Friday which has sent Middle East tensions spiralling once again.

Britain has declared the seizure illegal, condemned it as an 'act of state piracy' and pledged to defend its shipping with a European-led 'maritime protection mission'.

But Iran's President last night insisted that 'Iran is the guardian of security' in the region while his defence minister told Iranian media that 'the Islamic Republic has the will and power to respond to any threat'.

Rear admiral Khanzadi revealed that Iran's navy is acquiring new 'intercontinental drones' to monitor the oceans, as he made his sinister promise to watch Western ships.

'We have this type of drones and we will certainly use them if necessary. These drones are being used in the vast region of the Indian Ocean now,' he said.

The technology to track shipping may not be groundbreaking, but Iran is making the boast in a warning to the West just days after seizing one vessel.

One Iranian general claimed that Iran is 'even ahead of the top world powers in the drones sector and we are way ahead of them'.

Tee Hee Hee.

It does illustrate though, they dont seem to want to stop with 2 ships. This seemingly is going to keep on going. Which I guessed, but its nice to have them spell it out for us.

[JasonJ]

After meeting with Bolton, Japan not considering sending SDF.

 

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan’s top government spokesman said on Tuesday that there was no change in the country’s stance that it was not considering sending its Self-Defence Forces for a U.S.-proposed maritime coalition in the Middle East.

 

Asked if there was a change in the position previously stated by Defence Minister Takeshi Iwaya, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said it was “as Minister Iwaya said.”

 

U.S. national security adviser John Bolton on Monday met Foreign Minister Taro Kono, Iwaya and national security adviser Shotaro Yachi.

 

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said on Monday that before making a decision on joining the United States, Japan wants to fulfill what it sees as a unique role it has to play in reducing tension.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-mideast-suga/japan-not-now-considering-sending-military-for-us-proposed-maritime-coalition-suga-idUSKCN1UI07P

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

The basic gist is, the only revolution is likely to come from inside Iran, and that the opposition is so divided they are unlikely to work together. The point is, dont expect a new revolution anytime soon.

[Panzermann]

Well thats a welcome departure. Up to now they havent put sanctions on any PRC companies.

But do these companies do much business in the USA? I doubt it.

[Stuart Galbraith]

No, but if a European company does business with a company the US has put sanctions on.... You see? Its probably the knock on effect that is going to be most important here I think.

[Nobu]

What is clear is that if India manages to obtain a waiver on sanctions for trade in energy with Iran, Washington will be required to extend the same courtesy to Japan.

[Colin]

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7275763/Iran-warns-following-enemy-ships-especially-American.html

Iran is watching every enemy ship in the Gulf, the head of the Iranian navy boasted today, in a thinly-veiled threat that Tehran's Revolutionary Guards could strike again against Western shipping.

Tehran's 'world-leading' drones are following 'all enemy ships, particularly America' and taking pictures 'point-by-point from their origin until the moment they enter the region', rear admiral Hossein Khanzadi claimed.

'We have complete images and a large archive of the daily and moment-by-moment traffic of the coalition forces and America,' he said.

Iran has already captured one UK tanker, the Stena Impero, in a dramatic seizure last Friday which has sent Middle East tensions spiralling once again.

Britain has declared the seizure illegal, condemned it as an 'act of state piracy' and pledged to defend its shipping with a European-led 'maritime protection mission'.

But Iran's President last night insisted that 'Iran is the guardian of security' in the region while his defence minister told Iranian media that 'the Islamic Republic has the will and power to respond to any threat'.

Rear admiral Khanzadi revealed that Iran's navy is acquiring new 'intercontinental drones' to monitor the oceans, as he made his sinister promise to watch Western ships.

'We have this type of drones and we will certainly use them if necessary. These drones are being used in the vast region of the Indian Ocean now,' he said.

The technology to track shipping may not be groundbreaking, but Iran is making the boast in a warning to the West just days after seizing one vessel.

One Iranian general claimed that Iran is 'even ahead of the top world powers in the drones sector and we are way ahead of them'.

 

Tee Hee Hee.

 

It does illustrate though, they dont seem to want to stop with 2 ships. This seemingly is going to keep on going. Which I guessed, but its nice to have them spell it out for us.

 

Iran's military might in regards to drones, helicopters, small vessels have a lifespan of a couple of weeks if things go hot.

[Mighty_Zuk]

With all the dangers of sending tankers through the strait, why not just send 1 or 2 USVs to escort every tanker? Surely it's an expense the US and UK can take, without the fleets taking a toll.