Stages For A Reality-Based Gun Game?

[Ivanhoe 0]

 

Clickbait for sure, but this weekend I have been perusing the Intertubes, and you know that said activity leads to madness.

 

I ran across one of those genius-filled squib-rod measuring contests concerning thumbs-forward grip uber alles.

 

As I'm reading it, and then googling with search terms like "pistol grip thumbs-forward" etc., it became obvious that most of the pro-thumbs-forward arguments boiled down to 3: Master Sergeant X of Delta Seals teaches it, errybuddy competing at the national level Gungames uses it, and forum poster Y improved his 25 yard groups from 5 inches to 2 inches.

 

OTOH, most of the stats seem to indicate civilian SD shootings are overwhelmingly closer than 5 yards, many (upwards of 25%?) are at roughly 5 feet based on security camera footage.

 

Soooo,

 

what stages would you design for an honestly realistic gungame or training regimen?

 

I'll start off with 3:

 

* at home on the couch, home invasion crew kicks the front door in.

 

* in the car, just pulled into a parking space.

 

* behind the counter at a Stop-N-Rob.

[Simon Tan 0]

Asleep, with a loud indeterminate noise in darkened room.

[Wobbly Head 0]

Asleep, with a loud indeterminate noise in darkened room.

Does that scenario come with optional cat and annoyed wife targets?

[Stuart Galbraith 0]

On the toilet whilst reading a copy of Playboy magazine. From my cold dead hands etc etc.

[Chris Werb 0]

South African stage. Engage "burglar" in your shower.

[bojan 0]

Make suppression really work, since that is 99% of the small arms fire in the military environment.

[Wobbly Head 0]

South African stage. Engage "burglar" in your shower.

You wouldnt have a leg to stand on in that stage.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Wobbly Head

[JamesR 0]

I had no idea "thumbs forward" was controversial. What other ways is there.. tea cup? I've always used thumbs forward...except with revolvers.. i think... but I'm more of a bench/prone rifle guy.

 

Stages for an honestly realistic gun game? Well you need many stages at the range for practice.. because that's by far the most common type of shooting you're average civilian is going to be involved in(hopefully!). You could do a game in a game... ever seen those "you sank my battleship" targets?

 

Don't forget a stage where you walk into a sporting goods store and buy ammo. Should probably add a requirement to use a real credit card in order to exit the stage. That sets up the road rage stage during the drive home.

 

Then if you want to add a crafting element you could include a reloading simulator so the gamer can spend hours prepping brass... virtually! Also include steps like sorting your bullets and trimming your meplats. Then the player can sell their virtual ammo to other players for in game credits (although as a rule... i never shoot someone else's reloads in my guns.. but this is a game so its cool). Then they can use the in game credits to get something other than the starter glock.. with its grip angle....

 

Sounds like fun.. I might play it but Ill need to bust our with a hoppes #9 air freshener!

Edited June 18, 2019 by JamesR

[Stuart Galbraith 0]

Strikes me that this is the closest currently available to what Ivanhoe requested.....

[Ivanhoe 0]

I had no idea "thumbs forward" was controversial. What other ways is there.. tea cup? I've always used thumbs forward...except with revolvers.. i think... but I'm more of a bench/prone rifle guy.

 

There is the old thumbs curled grip that comes from the revolver world, particularly LE. Then there is the thumbs-up approach, the thumb riding on the safety grip, etc.

[shep854 0]

 

I had no idea "thumbs forward" was controversial. What other ways is there.. tea cup? I've always used thumbs forward...except with revolvers.. i think... but I'm more of a bench/prone rifle guy.

 

There is the old thumbs curled grip that comes from the revolver world, particularly LE. Then there is the thumbs-up approach, the thumb riding on the safety grip, etc.

 

Don't forget the old wrist grip...

[Wobbly Head 0]

I think the main problem with your scenarios are they are so extremely rare that the amount of continual training you would need to prepare you is almost comical so it's hard to take this seriously. It's almost like the Monty Python attacking with a banana sketch.

[Simon Tan 0]

Yep. Much better to just post on Tanknet!

[Panzermann 0]

Yep. Much better to just post on Tanknet!

 

hehe

 

---

 

Okay to take it more seriously. To make a home defense like situation I would build up a shoothouse. put a sleeping room with a bed in it. The competitor starts in the bed and has to retrieve his firearm from the bedstand or similar storage for a home defense firearm. then has to clear the "house" and find and neutralize the randomly placed target and with a few noshoots placed around the house.

 

Another scenario would be starting in the kitchen and when the beep goes opff the competitor has to go and retrieve his firearm from its storage. Or you could start with a concealed carry. then like the other scenario. Yeah, souinds boring at the moment. Maybe randomly put up two targets insted of one, so you have to clear all rooms.

 

Hmmmm needs more thinking I guess. What do typical home defense cases look like?

[Stuart Galbraith 0]

Sandworms. Lots of Sandworm's.

[Ivanhoe 0]

Okay to take it more seriously. To make a home defense like situation I would build up a shoothouse. put a sleeping room with a bed in it. The competitor starts in the bed and has to retrieve his firearm from the bedstand or similar storage for a home defense firearm. then has to clear the "house" and find and neutralize the randomly placed target and with a few noshoots placed around the house.

In the early days of IPSC, I think they used to do that sort of thing. All the way to having a teddy bear prop. But it turned into the usual square range thing; two bullets on 5 targets. All about speed, no tactics.

 

Another scenario would be starting in the kitchen and when the beep goes opff the competitor has to go and retrieve his firearm from its storage. Or you could start with a concealed carry. then like the other scenario. Yeah, souinds boring at the moment. Maybe randomly put up two targets insted of one, so you have to clear all rooms.

That is the thing. Home invasions usually don't offer enough time to sprint from wherever to the gun safe, much less open it, acquire firing grip, etc. In my current place, I don't worry much about the door getting kicked in, because if they do that the walls and roof will collapse.

[Ivanhoe 0]

Sandworms. Lots of Sandworm's.

I am not worried about sandworms. The limestone here would crack their skulls ricky-tick. Plus they'd never survive the fire ants.

[Stuart Galbraith 0]

Yeah, ive had a thing about fire ants since I saw THAT episode of CSI. I guess I know what my layer in hell is going to be.

 

 

What about a gunfight in a phone booth? Make both protagonists 6 feet tall and with really long arms, and give them both .357 magnums. Who can draw first and who can get a bead? Discuss.

[Panzermann 0]

 

Okay to take it more seriously. To make a home defense like situation I would build up a shoothouse. put a sleeping room with a bed in it. The competitor starts in the bed and has to retrieve his firearm from the bedstand or similar storage for a home defense firearm. then has to clear the "house" and find and neutralize the randomly placed target and with a few noshoots placed around the house.

In the early days of IPSC, I think they used to do that sort of thing. All the way to having a teddy bear prop. But it turned into the usual square range thing; two bullets on 5 targets. All about speed, no tactics.

 

Sadly. Originally 3-gun comes from the three guns a cop normally has in his cruiser. His pistol or revolver, a shotgun and a rifle. Put them to use with transitions on the fly between them. Over the years since the eighties it has morphed into high speed paper punching at 5 meters. So does not really have soemthing to do real live engagemanets anymore.

 

 

Another scenario would be starting in the kitchen and when the beep goes opff the competitor has to go and retrieve his firearm from its storage. Or you could start with a concealed carry. then like the other scenario. Yeah, souinds boring at the moment. Maybe randomly put up two targets insted of one, so you have to clear all rooms.

That is the thing. Home invasions usually don't offer enough time to sprint from wherever to the gun safe, much less open it, acquire firing grip, etc. In my current place, I don't worry much about the door getting kicked in, because if they do that the walls and roof will collapse.

 

 

 

Do you live in a carton box?

[rmgill 0]

* at home on the couch, home invasion crew kicks the front door in.

 

* in the car, just pulled into a parking space.

 

* behind the counter at a Stop-N-Rob.

° Sitting at a light in your car, dude smashes your window open and tries to get in or sticks a gun in your face to demand your car.

 

° Walking down the street, guy standing in your way looking you over as you approach and asking for a light. There is another walking up behind you. If you look closely, as you walk up the one in front of you nods to the one following behind.

 

° 3 dudes standing at the street corner where there's nothing to wait for.

 

° Standing in line at the bank, 2 men come in and start a robbery.

 

° Watching a cop struggle with a perp who starts to get the advantage over the officer.

[Ivanhoe 0]

 

 

Okay to take it more seriously. To make a home defense like situation I would build up a shoothouse. put a sleeping room with a bed in it. The competitor starts in the bed and has to retrieve his firearm from the bedstand or similar storage for a home defense firearm. then has to clear the "house" and find and neutralize the randomly placed target and with a few noshoots placed around the house.

In the early days of IPSC, I think they used to do that sort of thing. All the way to having a teddy bear prop. But it turned into the usual square range thing; two bullets on 5 targets. All about speed, no tactics.

 

Sadly. Originally 3-gun comes from the three guns a cop normally has in his cruiser. His pistol or revolver, a shotgun and a rifle. Put them to use with transitions on the fly between them. Over the years since the eighties it has morphed into high speed paper punching at 5 meters. So does not really have soemthing to do real live engagemanets anymore.

 

 

Another scenario would be starting in the kitchen and when the beep goes opff the competitor has to go and retrieve his firearm from its storage. Or you could start with a concealed carry. then like the other scenario. Yeah, souinds boring at the moment. Maybe randomly put up two targets insted of one, so you have to clear all rooms.

That is the thing. Home invasions usually don't offer enough time to sprint from wherever to the gun safe, much less open it, acquire firing grip, etc. In my current place, I don't worry much about the door getting kicked in, because if they do that the walls and roof will collapse.

 

 

 

Do you live in a carton box?

 

 

Even worse, a renter-grade house built apparently when crack was at its peak.

[Chris Werb 0]

Pursuing a perp in your car through a built up area whilst shooting through your windshield at them dozens of times.

[Simon Tan 0]

Done that. Its hard. Shooting through windshields. Either way.

[Stargrunt6 0]

I did a carjacking drill in an empty alley at night out in the boonies with my old bersa and snap caps. the drill was to draw, deactivate safety, aim, "fire" while yelling at would-be passengers to get down. I did a few reps on all aspects of the vehicle.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Stargrunt6

[Panzermann 0]

I did a carjacking drill in an empty alley at night out in the boonies with my old bersa and snap caps. the drill was to draw, deactivate safety, aim, "fire" while yelling at would-be passengers to get down. I did a few reps on all aspects of the vehicle.

 

Sounds more fit for a training course than a competition I think. That seems hard to integrate repeatably into a competiton. There are some competitions that put you in an old junk car, or let you start or end in one shooting through the windows, but that is more to make the shooter shoot from a difficult position than to train for actual gun fight around a vehicle.

 

 

IMHO what you can take from a competition is how you can work best under stress and when the heart is pumping loudly in your ears. Learn shooting under pressure and not with all the time you want sitting comfortably at a bench. to get out of the comfort zone. So that if the excrement hits the ventilator, you are not totally new to working under stress.