Chris Werb Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 I'm probably not the only one here who has been left scratching his head at the fact that certain armed forces lack some forms of equipment that would seem to fit in well or fill an obvious gap. Here are a few examples just off the top of my head. UK - 120mm mortars, conventional patrol subs and, until recently, a land based area defence SAM US - a viable hand held anti tank weapon (M136 really isn't one and the M3A1 isn't intended to be one). France - heavy lift helicopters Canada - attack helicopters Belgium - GBAD (it has none whatsoever - even Eire has RBS-70) Feel free to challenge the above examples or add more of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 120mm mortars in UK are due the fact that British army never reinforced Bn level firesupport compared to a WW2 level. 8 x 81mm mortar in 1945, 8 x 81mm mortar in 2019... It is a mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Dont need more BN level tubes when you HAD AGRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 120mm mortars in UK are due the fact that British army never reinforced Bn level firesupport compared to a WW2 level. 8 x 81mm mortar in 1945, 8 x 81mm mortar in 2019... It is a mind boggling. You score extra points for knowing the "3 inch" mortar was actually 81mm We did have 4.2" mortars that served in limited numbers until (and including) the Borneo confronation, but they were treated as artillery and operated by the Royal Artillery. I'm guessing they were gone by 1967-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Presumably attack helicopters don't figure in Canada's doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) You score extra points for knowing the "3 inch" mortar was actually 81mm Well, local designation "Mortar, 81mm Mk.1/2/3* (e) was kinda giveaway. *Apparently there were 3 versions and they survived until 1990s in war storages, being reworked to 82mm in the '60s (as with all other 81mm mortars, whole process only included removing 0.3mm from the inside of the tube on the lathe, since 81mm mortars are 81.4mm anyway). Edited June 16, 2019 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Head Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Presumably attack helicopters don't figure in Canada's doctrine? Considering the distances involved, slightly left leaning politicians and who our southern neighbours. tanks almost never figured in Canada's doctrine. It was only due to the involvement in Afghanistan and the use of the leopard1 in that conflict that they decided to upgrade to leopard 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Canadia only needs defence helicopters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Presumably attack helicopters don't figure in Canada's doctrine?More like they don't fit into the budget. We are certainly happy to use them if others ( i.e. US Army or USMC) provide them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTK Ciar Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 US - Air-droppable light tank (to replace M551, fully phased out since 1996).Much of world - Cheap top-attack munition for RPG-7 platform. The technology is available. I keep waiting for someone to put the pieces together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunday Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Not really surprising, but some countries would do good with some nukes of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I'm probably not the only one here who has been left scratching his head at the fact that certain armed forces lack some forms of equipment that would seem to fit in well or fill an obvious gap. Here are a few examples just off the top of my head. UK - 120mm mortars, conventional patrol subs and, until recently, a land based area defence SAM US - a viable hand held anti tank weapon (M136 really isn't one and the M3A1 isn't intended to be one). France - heavy lift helicopters Canada - attack helicopters Belgium - GBAD (it has none whatsoever - even Eire has RBS-70) Feel free to challenge the above examples or add more of your own. Philippines - everything in meaningful numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARGEAN Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Russia - RPG-7 replacement. Or even new ammo. Using stuff from late 80s when you have RPG-32... Yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) You score extra points for knowing the "3 inch" mortar was actually 81mm Well, local designation "Mortar, 81mm Mk.1/2/3* (e) was kinda giveaway. *Apparently there were 3 versions and they survived until 1990s in war storages, being reworked to 82mm in the '60s (as with all other 81mm mortars, whole process only included removing 0.3mm from the inside of the tube on the lathe, since 81mm mortars are 81.4mm anyway). So yugo conversion to the soviet 82 mm bombs. makes sense to standardize on one type. That the brits are still without 120 mm moratas may have to do that LK118 105 mm light guins are in service and that there is maybe some interservice envy going on, that would put 120 mm mortars under the Royal Artillery? France - heavy lift helicopters​ Actually the Armee de l'air is looking ard at buying one. Maybe standing up a joint unit with Germany like the C-130J unit. https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/paris-air-show/2019/06/16/french-air-force-deputy-talks-strategy-brexit-and-future-fighter-jets/ Intresting stuff the chief of french air force says there. For Germany: No Army AAA. the half dozen LeFlaSys Ozelot (Igla or Stinger) are under Luftwaffe control, as are MIM-104 Patriots. Roland and Gepard have been scrapped or sold. the handful of MANTIS systems are also Luftwaffe and not mobile. No self-propelled mortars for the Panzerbrigades. There is only the half dozen Wiesel 2 mortar carriers that are attached to the Artillerielehrbattaillon. they have to make do with nothing or the old worn out Tampella 120mm mortars. No proper modern radio sets, they have to make do with the old SEM-70 -80 -90 series mostly and adhoc bought PRC-117 series to talk to others. Real fun when actually deployed abroad to juggle the different radios signalmen tell me. All of these are mostly budgeting and project management shortcomings. And teh myopic expectation that the next conflict looks like the last one. In the German case the expeditionary warfare that has been waged in the last nearly twenty years. Edited June 19, 2019 by Panzermann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) Delete Edited June 18, 2019 by shep854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Canada also lacks IFV's, 120mm mortars, Air Defense systems and until recently no ATGM's. They also wanted to replace all the 60mm mortars with automatic grenade launchers.... Not to mention mundane stuff like winter warfare gear, bridging equipment and tactical trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) Yeah, but we are getting previously enjoyed, state-of-the-art a generation ago, ex-RAAF Hornets while we wait for a replacement for the CF-18s we ordered in 1979. We're also moving right along with a program to replace our WW2 built Browning HPs. We've only been trying since about 2010 with that, though, so it should only be another decade or so. Edited June 22, 2019 by R011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted June 22, 2019 Author Share Posted June 22, 2019 I think Australia still has the Browning as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) I think Australia still has the Browning as standard.Ours are all Inglis wartime manufacture. I understand the UK replaced those in the late sixties with new builds. I don't know how old Australia's are. If Wikipedia is right, they may be late eighties/ early nineties made - and probably replaced older Brownings. Edited June 22, 2019 by R011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcweasel Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Canada also lacks IFV's, 120mm mortars, Air Defense systems and until recently no ATGM's. They also wanted to replace all the 60mm mortars with automatic grenade launchers.... Not to mention mundane stuff like winter warfare gear, bridging equipment and tactical trucks.When did the ATGW come back? I'd also add SP artillery (almost any artillery at all really, 37x155mm M777 and some retubed 105mm M2A1 FH seem kinda limited) and an integrated artillery fire direction system Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Has Canada ever operated the TOW missile system? Seems like those are everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Yes. TOW was in service beginning in the early seventies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted June 23, 2019 Author Share Posted June 23, 2019 I think Sweden sold it's entire inventory of BILL 2 ATGMS and launchers and the factory that made them to the Saudis in 2013, leaving their infantry without a truly man portable ATGM. They still have TOW in service. To be fair, they have NLAW, which is probably the best "unguided" shoulder launched AT weapon out there, but no portable ATGWs is a suprising omission, particularly as they had a really good one in service and dumped it without explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Current TOW's are wireless, which extends their range a bit. Still a little unusual to see an antitank/antistructure missile come packed in a wirebound wooden box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 I think Sweden sold it's entire inventory of BILL 2 ATGMS and launchers and the factory that made them to the Saudis in 2013, leaving their infantry without a truly man portable ATGM. They still have TOW in service. To be fair, they have NLAW, which is probably the best "unguided" shoulder launched AT weapon out there, but no portable ATGWs is a suprising omission, particularly as they had a really good one in service and dumped it without explanation. I am sure the reasons were the ususal "to save money" and "world peace has broken out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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