Protests In Hong Kong

[Stuart Galbraith]

Jackie Chan backs Beijing.

 

@0:53

"...I also deeply feel that safety, stability, and peace are like fresh air, you never know how precious it is until you lose it. ..."

 

Safety = No Freedom

Stability = No Democracy

Peace = No Free Speech.

 

 

Considering this man made most of his money in the West where such tenets are taken for granted, this comes across as deeply hypocritical. I say that who someone who liked his films, lord help me.

[JasonJ]

He's become Pro-CCP since almost a decade ago.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kevintang/jackie-chan-offends-chinese-netizen (Aug 2013)

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/taiwan-museum-removes-defaced-statues-given-by-jackie-chan-amid-strained-china-ties (Noc 2016)

https://japantoday.com/category/entertainment/jackie-chan-weighs-in-on-china-japan-island-dispute (Oct 2012)

[Stuart Galbraith]

Jackie Chan wouldnt have. He would be roundhouse kickboxing the PRC all the way back to Beijing.

 

[JasonJ]

Bruce Lee wouldnt have. He would be roundhouse kickboxing the PRC all the way back to Beijing.

 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

He was awesome.

 

There is a lot in that. I guess that is what the PRC is trying to do, to desperately assimilate what is essentially a Western city, before it infects the rest of the PRC. And Hong Kong is holding out, calculating that the longer it does, the more likely it is that China will change.

 

My own view, I think im with the Hong Kongers (Kongese?) if you view China's long view of history. Its the PRC with its haste that is looking distinctly western here. Oh, im sure they will have a body count, but the higher it is, the more likely they are ultimately going to fail.

 

 

I have no crystal ball, I guess we will see.

[seahawk]

China needs to crush this with force. Let the tanks roll and end this liberal up-rising.

[JasonJ]

China needs to crush this with force. Let the tanks roll and end this liberal up-rising.

 

It's probably easy to forget the original cause of the demonstrations but it is the HK government trying to pass the Mainland-backed extradition bill. Which means that people including foreigners found unlawful in HK could be sent to trial in a mainland China court which obviously is full of CCP workers. Up until now, it has been HK book sellers suddenly disappearing, or in other words, being kidnapped by the mainland, and then appearing some weeks later with the message that "they are doing fine in mainland China and express apology for hurting the feelings of the Chinese people, etc."

 

I don't exactly think that fits your bill as part of the American liberal ideology back in the US.

[Adam_S]

Safety = No Freedom

Stability = No Democracy

Peace = No Free Speech.

 

 

I think it's supposed to go like this.

 

Freedom is slavery

War is peace

Ignorance is strength

 

[BansheeOne]

CCTV has taken Martin Niemöller hostage. Cute.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Jesus Christ, Orwell would have loved these guys. As a focus for a fictional novel anyway.

[Mikel2]

Jesus Christ, Orwell would have loved these guys. As a focus for a fictional novel anyway.

The Chinese social credit system, their nation wide camera and facial recognition system... Straight out of an Orwell nightmare.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Orwell supposedly said he didnt think 1984, as described would happen, but he did think something like it could happen. He was selling himself too short IMHO. The only thing he got wrong is that you can be an increasingly rich state, and still authoritarian.

[JasonJ]

Today's demonstration was held at Victoria Park and thus less disruptive.

Edited August 18, 2019 by JasonJ

[Nobu]

He was awesome.

 

There is a lot in that. I guess that is what the PRC is trying to do, to desperately assimilate what is essentially a Western city, before it infects the rest of the PRC. And Hong Kong is holding out, calculating that the longer it does, the more likely it is that China will change.

 

My own view, I think im with the Hong Kongers (Kongese?) if you view China's long view of history. Its the PRC with its haste that is looking distinctly western here. Oh, im sure they will have a body count, but the higher it is, the more likely they are ultimately going to fail.

 

 

I have no crystal ball, I guess we will see.

 

There is certainly an opportunity here, as today independence for Hong Kong, tomorrow independence for Shanghai and Harbin.

 

The blame for Chinese holding back from ordering the violent crackdown against fellow Chinese/Hongkongese in their cool black tees should be applied squarely to this Carrie Lam.

 

That the Chinese have not done so by now is frustrating in various ways.

[Nobu]

China needs to crush this with force. Let the tanks roll and end this liberal up-rising.

 

I am surprised that they have not done so, frankly, and am alarmed by the recent trend toward less disruption and more peaceful demonstrations on the part of the young Chinese in their cool black tees raging against the machine, as this will not increase the pressure on this Carrie Lam required for her to crack under it.

[Ivanhoe]

Orwell supposedly said he didnt think 1984, as described would happen, but he did think something like it could happen. He was selling himself too short IMHO. The only thing he got wrong is that you can be an increasingly rich state, and still authoritarian.

The brilliance of Orwell is that he observed some trends and tendencies very early on, that enabled him to make some accurate projections.

 

Reminds me, in a way, of Ludwig von Mises and his economic and social critiques of socialism.

[BansheeOne]

 

Im disappointed they have not raised the ROC flag....

 

They were never part of the Republic of China. They were a British Crown Colony at that time. I do note they aren't flying the flag of the country that gave them to the PRC.

 

By now I've actually seen plenty of flags in the protests, including the British and Taiwanese.

 

 

 

 

[Nobu]

It is becoming evident that the waving of flags by young Hongkongese in their cool black tees is not going to be enough to make this bureaucrat par excellance Carrie Lam buckle at the knees so to speak.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

Im disappointed they have not raised the ROC flag....

 

They were never part of the Republic of China. They were a British Crown Colony at that time. I do note they aren't flying the flag of the country that gave them to the PRC.

 

By now I've actually seen plenty of flags in the protests, including the British and Taiwanese.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, at this point I have to reflect which flag is going to piss the PRC off the most.

[Josh]

The Chinese will attempt to wait HK out. I suspect they will be quite patient about it.

[Nobu]

If the laser beams directed by young Hongkongese in their cool black tees into the eyes of the police are not enough to provoke them, I am at a loss as to what exactly would do so.

 

I also hope ANTIFA and the black bloc are not taking notes.

[DB]

One can suggest that the Chinese government is entirely aware that a blood bath in HK would be counter to their interests in the short to medium term.

 

I posit that they hope to be tough enough to discourage any spread of sentiment to other urban centres, and it may be possible to find whether there are additional active measures to discourage potential activists outside of HK, beyond the religious concentration camps that are standard practice.

[Ssnake]

... beyond the religious concentration camps vocational schools that are standard practice.

 

FIFY.

[Josh]

I'm a little surprised they didn't cut basic services as a way to turn opinion against the protesters nonviolently.

[sunday]

One can suggest that the Chinese government is entirely aware that a blood bath in HK would be counter to their interests in the short to medium term.

 

I posit that they hope to be tough enough to discourage any spread of sentiment to other urban centres, and it may be possible to find whether there are additional active measures to discourage potential activists outside of HK, beyond the religious concentration camps that are standard practice.

Considering the events of Tiananmen, Tibet, the Uighurs, and the Vatican surrendering in the Patriotic Church affair, I think the Chinese govt practically does not care about repercussions, but keeps expanding the envelope, more or less carefully. Hong Kong is another slice of the salami - this time they are dealing with an urban, cosmopolitan environment having the most westernized population in China.