John_Ford Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Appears promising. Only question is why such small force and limited Reaction assets? I remember in Iraq when a company of Deuce 4 of 1 Brigade 25 ID got into a Scrap and the whole battalion piled in with Nick Moran and his tank company rolling out as the QRF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I worked for 13 years with a K1W1 who was a signaller with the NZ Artillery at this battle. He said that he was there, and that the artillery did what they could, but didn't say much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Ford Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 ATF ORBAT:1 ATF consisted of two infantry battalions—5 RAR commanded by Lieutenant Colonel John Warr, and 6 RAR under Lieutenant Colonel Colin Townsend. Other units included the 1st APC Squadron operating M113 armoured personnel carriers; 1st Field Regiment, Royal Australian Artillery consisting of the New Zealand 161st Battery and two Australian batteries equipped with eighteen 105 mm L5 Pack Howitzers; as well as six 155 mm M109 self-propelled howitzers from A Battery, 2nd Battalion, 35th Artillery Regiment permanently attached at Nui Dat; 3rd SAS Squadron; 1st Field Squadron and 21st Engineer Support Troop; 103rd Signals Squadron; 161st Reconnaissance Flight operating Cessna 180s and Bell H-13 Sioux light observation helicopters; and an intelligence detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickM Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Appears promising. Only question is why such small force and limited Reaction assets?I remember in Iraq when a company of Deuce 4 of 1 Brigade 25 ID got into a Scrap and the whole battalion piled in with NickMoran and his tank company rolling out as the QRF. Good! Not a documentary, but an actual docudrama--been waiting for this for a while since IMDB went away; All I know is that it a meeting engagement and not an ambush so the NVA (and I heard it was a regiment sized unit) was NOT in bunkers and could not take it's time chopping up and the Diggers were not dug in...so the Diggers improvised & maneuvered and the NVA (basically being 'in the open'--IE NOT in prepared positions of their own choosing ) tried to find a way to try to 'swarm them with bodies'. It said a lot about the Australians' jungle fighting skills that they kept the NVA at bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 This looks good. Interesting that the Soldiers had a mix of M16 and SLR. Was it the RAR that had the SLR's, and the Australian SAS that had the M16's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 They mixed them in the sections, M16 being largely replacement for the SMGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Thats interesting. Did they employ L7's (or L4's) as section weapons, like we did? Edited April 30, 2019 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) No, M60s. Section:Command group:- Section leader - SMG/M16- Scout 1 - SMG/M16- Scout 2 - FAL Gun group:- Assistant section leader - FAL + M79. FAL was often replaced by M16- MG gunner - M60 + pistol- Assistant MG gunner - FAL Rifle group:- Riflemen x 3 - FAL Sometimes one of the riflemen also got M16 Edited April 30, 2019 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) No, M60s. Section:Command group:- Section leader - SMG/M16- Scout 1 - SMG/M16- Scout 2 - FAL Gun group:- Assistant section leader - FAL + M79- MG gunner - M60 + pistol- Assistant MG gunner - FAL Rifle group:- Riflemen x 3 - FAL Sometimes one of the riflemen also got M16 My memories, confirmed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_(military_unit)#Australian_Armywas that a section was ten men. So Section:Command group:- Section leader - SMG/M16 Corporal- Scout 1 - SMG/M16- Scout 2 - FAL Gun group:- Assistant section leader - FAL + M79 Lance Corporal- MG gunner - M60 + pistol- Assistant MG gunner - FAL Rifle group:- Riflemen x 4 - FAL I also remember some of my cadet instructors mentioning that sometimes one of the scouts unofficially carried a 12 gauge shotgun, Edited April 30, 2019 by DougRichards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 On a related question did the Australian force carry out a formal body count of enemy dead in that war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 No, M60s. Section:Command group:- Section leader - SMG/M16- Scout 1 - SMG/M16- Scout 2 - FAL Gun group:- Assistant section leader - FAL + M79. FAL was often replaced by M16- MG gunner - M60 + pistol- Assistant MG gunner - FAL Rifle group:- Riflemen x 3 - FAL Sometimes one of the riflemen also got M16 Should have guessed, their Huey's were mounting M60's as well. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 ...Section:Command group:- Section leader - SMG/M16 Corporal- Scout 1 - SMG/M16- Scout 2 - FAL Gun group:- Assistant section leader - FAL + M79 Lance Corporal- MG gunner - M60 + pistol- Assistant MG gunner - FAL Rifle group:- Riflemen x 4 - FAL I also remember some of my cadet instructors mentioning that sometimes one of the scouts unofficially carried a 12 gauge shotgun, Thanks, I guess that difference in riflemen strength being due the fact that in field sections are only rarely with full complement of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldsteel Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 They mixed them in the sections, M16 being largely replacement for the SMGs. This, although some of the blokes in the trailer are still carrying Owen guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 SOG were still using Sten MkIIS at the time. Although it was only for snatches off the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickM Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 SOG were still using Sten MkIIS at the time. Although it was only for snatches off the trail. Silenced ones to be clear--though I think they were supplanted by the Swedish 'K' with silencer soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Yeah, the MKIIS, the silenced version. They used to dismantle them after using them, which kind of illustrates the Stens beloved capacity to go off all by itself never quite departed. They used all kinds of wierd stuff, including Swedish grenades and foreign boots if I remember rightly. All for plausible deniability, which was a lot of crap because its not like the The NVA ever were big on taking prisoners. There was also an offshoot of SOG that used Swedish fast patrol boats off the North Vietnam coast if I remember rightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 "It said a lot about the Australians' jungle fighting skills that they kept the NVA at bay"​Had lots of experience in PNG fighting the Japanes in WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 "It said a lot about the Australians' jungle fighting skills that they kept the NVA at bay"​Had lots of experience in PNG fighting the Japanes in WW2. And some in Malaya as well. Also the Australians had good artillery support and armoured support in the last stages of the battle. The cavalry unit leader twice disobeying orders to push onto the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickM Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 "It said a lot about the Australians' jungle fighting skills that they kept the NVA at bay"​Had lots of experience in PNG fighting the Japanes in WW2. And some in Malaya as well. Also the Australians had good artillery support and armoured support in the last stages of the battle. The cavalry unit leader twice disobeying orders to push onto the battlefield. Yeah and hadn't the Aussies done a few rounds against Indonesia during 'The Confrontation'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Ford Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Sidebar comment. Australian Armor support in the MK5 Cent C Squadron 1st Armoured Regiment arrived in Feb 1968. The Task Force Commander got an additional Infantry Battalion in December 1967 and two Rifle Companies from 1 RNZIR in May of 1967. The NZ Rifle companies were combined into 2 RAR rifle Battalion resulting in a 5 Company strength unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Its often forgotten the Australians made a vital contribution to the Korean war as part of the Commonwealth Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 No, M60s. Section:Command group:- Section leader - SMG/M16- Scout 1 - SMG/M16- Scout 2 - FAL Gun group:- Assistant section leader - FAL + M79. FAL was often replaced by M16- MG gunner - M60 + pistol- Assistant MG gunner - FAL Rifle group:- Riflemen x 3 - FAL Sometimes one of the riflemen also got M16 Where did the L2A1 fit into the ToE? As an aside, I found this interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Its often forgotten the Australians made a vital contribution to the Korean war as part of the Commonwealth Division. Half of those Australians were English troops offered the chance of immigration for serving in the Australian Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Its often forgotten the Australians made a vital contribution to the Korean war as part of the Commonwealth Division. Half of those Australians were English troops offered the chance of immigration for serving in the Australian Army. Wouldn't there also have been a large amount of English born who fought as ANZACs at Gallipolli? Edited May 3, 2019 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Where did the L2A1 fit into the ToE? As an aside, I found this interesting. AFAIK not used as a squad LMG/SAW.IIRC they went from Bren to M60, than MAG in '80s, than Minimi in '90s as a section LMG. i am sure Doug and Coldsteel can expand on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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