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Notre Dame Cathedral On Fire


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Thats really very excellent news.

 

From what I understand it, the measurement system on cathedrals of this era was largely bespoke. They agreed what a foot would be, then worked from that, so there would appear to be quite a lot of variety even among places that may have been built at the same time. So that they likely have it all recorded means they could go back and CAD it. Which means they are going to get it pretty close to how it was.

 

I can forgive them for getting measurements wrong. St Pauls was built a good 3 centuries later, and they had a remarkable degree of settlement on one side of the building. Today you can go in there and see where the building has settled whilst it was building. So the builders ignored it and just kept on building. Most people dont even notice it now.

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Yeah, I understand the urge for speed, but they need to take their time and make 1000 year repairs, not 10 year repairs.

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Exactly. Supposedly he wants it done for the 2024 Olympics. Which I think is missing the point, a Cathedral is for the ages, not special occasions. Its going to take months just to season the wood they are going to put back in the roof. When they find it.

 

Also, they dont seem to intend to replace the spire as built, they are going to put that out to international tender for architects to submit their own contributions. I just hope its more successful than the Pyramid in the Louvre.

 

 

Hearing a bit more today about the evacuation, apparently the Cathedral had an evacuation plan worked out for contingencies like this, which is why they seem to have been so successful in getting so much out.

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If you like that, you will probably appreciate this.

 

Coventry_Cathedral_burnt_cross.jpg

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_Cathedral#The_Charred_Cross_and_the_Cross_of_Nails

The Charred Cross and the Cross of Nails were created after the cathedral was bombed during the Coventry Blitz of the Second World War. The cathedral stonemason, Jock Forbes, saw two wooden beams lying in the shape of a cross and tied them together. A replica of the Charred Cross built in 1964 has replaced the original in the ruins of the old cathedral on an altar of rubble. The original is now kept on the stairs linking the cathedral with St Michael's Hall below.

The Cross of Nails was made of three nails from the roof truss of the old cathedral by Provost Richard Howard of Coventry Cathedral at the suggestion of a young friend, The Rev. A.P. Wales. It was later transferred to the new cathedral, where it sits in the centre of the altar cross. It has become a symbol of peace and reconciliation across the world. There are over 330 Cross of Nails Centres all over the world, all of them bearing a cross made of three nails from the ruins, similar to the original one. When there were no more of these nails, a continuing supply have come from a prison in Germany. They are co-ordinated by the International Centre for Reconciliation.

One of the crosses made of nails from the old cathedral was donated to the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church in Berlin, which was destroyed by Allied bombing and is also kept as a ruin alongside a newer building. A replica of the cross of nails was also donated to the Chapel of Reconciliation (Kapelle der Versöhnung) which forms part of the Berlin Wall Memorial. A copy of the Stalingrad Madonna by Kurt Reuber that was drawn in 1942 in Stalingrad (now Volgograd) is shown in the cathedrals of all three cities (Berlin, Coventry and Volgograd) as a sign of the reconciliation of the three countries that were once enemies.

A medieval cross of nails has also been carried on board all British warships which subsequently bear the name HMS Coventry.[16] The cross of nails was on board the Type 42 destroyer Coventry when she was sunk by enemy action in the Falklands War. The cross was salvaged by Royal Navy divers, and presented to Coventry Cathedral by the ship's Captain and colleagues.[17] The cross was subsequently presented first to the next Coventry in 1988 until she was decommissioned in 2002, and then to HMS Diamond, which is affiliated to Coventry, during her commissioning ceremony on 6 May 2011 by Captain David Hart-Dyke, the commanding officer of Coventry when she was sunk.[18]

BBC broadcast a documentary in 1962 entitled Act of Faith, narrated by Leo Genn, detailed the history of Coventry Cathedral, its destruction and rebuilding.[19]

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One of the firemen on the roof tackling the blaze was a woman. One of the other firefighters said they came within half an hour of losing the cathedral, and they admitted, they really didnt think they were going to stop it.

 

When the spire collapsed, they had to evacuate. Their sole means of tackling the blaze inside was a robot, that was developed specially for the Parisian Fire Brigade.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Macron says he is going to have it done in 5 years. Considering it took over a hundred years to build, I feel he is being a trifle overoptimistic. Even the relatively small repair at York took 4.

 

If he wants steel reinforced concrete and crappy wood veneers, maybe. If he wants proper period correct stone and oak, no way. Do it right. I'm sure some lessons and skills learned at Guédelon Castle will be of great assistance.

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Macron says he is going to have it done in 5 years. Considering it took over a hundred years to build, I feel he is being a trifle overoptimistic. Even the relatively small repair at York took 4.

 

If he wants steel reinforced concrete and crappy wood veneers, maybe. If he wants proper period correct stone and oak, no way. Do it right. I'm sure some lessons and skills learned at Guédelon Castle will be of great assistance.

 

 

Apparently Reims cathedral, damaged in WW1, was repaired in that way (concrete beams). But I think if they do that method, the people of Paris will shit a brick. Not unreasonably. It even remains to be seen if they will go for a new spire.

640px-Reims_Cathedral_burning_during_Wor

 

Yes, I thought of Guedelon castle, the woodwork they did in that was outstanding.

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Don't know if this is true but Paris firepersons to do there national service, have the option of the Paris FD or the military.

There is of course no longer conscription in France, but the Paris fire service is indeed part of the military, and participates in the 14 July parade on the Champs Elysees.

 

As for reconstruction with original vs. modern materials - you have to judge between historical accuracy in places that wont even be visible from the outside and practicality, including damage resistance, in a building that has evolved anyway; as noted, the collapsed spire already was a 19th century replacement. Cologne Cathedral had somewhat of good luck sitting unfinished for centuries after medieval enthusiasm waned and its style was overtaken by Renaissance architecture. It was only finished in the 19th century on a wave of German nationalism, largely to luckily found medieval plans, but with iron supports for the roof. That was cutting-edge and controversial at the time, too; however, even though it was hit by several bombs during WW II, including incendary, and a major provisional patch was visible in one of the towers until the year 2000, structural integrity was never endangered.

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I read in one book on Bomber Command that Cologne cathedral was never made a target. But some CO's made it the aim point of the attack, their logic being their bomb aimers were so hopeless, they would never hit it. Which was mostly true.

 

Well at least it fared luckier than Dresdens Frauenkirche (which is another truly excellent reconstruction id like to see).

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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They did a pretty wonderful job on that.

 

On a somewhat bigger scale, there is also Warsaw.

https://theshallowtraveller.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/warsaw-part-i-restoration/

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Come on, can we stop doing this, please? For all we know they had Moslem firemen on the church putting the damn thing out.

Given that you speculated quite far along a path that has not come to be at the START of this thread, you of all people should leave off of such chastising of others for such speculation.

 

There is an extant pattern of islamic society supplanting and/or razing religious buildings of cultures they are supplanting. There has been a rash of fires across France as well. As such it's hard to equate this fire with hearing zebras instead of horses. Either way, I'm still more interested in waiting for evidence AND exerting my usual 48 hour rule on such evidence.

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Did I speculate it was Moslems that caused it? No. That was someone else. Could it be arson? Yes. But history has taught me there are enough fuckwits in my own culture capable of doing such things.

 

Personally, Im bored at every thread on tanknet being turned into a 'Them and us' thread'. It would be nice, for once, to keep the thread away from that kind of thing. If if you think that is me overcompensating, then so be it. You have every other thread to talk these themes, please, go and play with them there.

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