Richard “Dick” Cole Goes West

[Murph]

The last Doolittle Raider has gone west. His kind will not be seen again. I raise a glass to Lt col. Cole.

[MiloMorai]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/09/a-legend-passes-dick-cole-last-of-the-doolittle-raiders-dies-at-103/

[JasonJ]

He served his good nation well.

[Nobu]

The families of the civilian casualties inflicted by the Doolittle Raid might disagree.

[Mikel2]

The families of the civilian casualties inflicted by the Doolittle Raid might disagree.

Maybe their nation shouldn't have gone all Genghis Khan on their neighbors.

[Orzel]

The families of the civilian casualties inflicted by the Doolittle Raid might disagree.

I'm sure that the surviving families in Nan King would find great solace in your comment. What a absolutely and utterly stupid thing to say!

[rmgill]

This seems appropriate...

[rmgill]

The families of the civilian casualties inflicted by the Doolittle Raid might disagree.

Usrusai!

[Orzel]

Great photo and very appropriate. RIP Colonel, you did more than your share.

[Jeff]

Had the honor of meeting many of them and getting 10 of them to sign (each of them signed their name and their number in the flight) my copy of The Doolittle Raid when they had their annual reunion here a number of years ago. Truly a group of giants, humble giants. Amazing experience standing with them while a couple of B-25s flew overhead.

[Rick]

This seems appropriate...

+1

[Rick]

The families of the civilian casualties inflicted by the Doolittle Raid might disagree.

No Pearl Harbor, no Doolittle. And, for that matter, no hiroshima and nagasaki.

[rmgill]

More pointedly, no Nanking then none of those horrors Japan experienced.

[JasonJ]

The families of the civilian casualties inflicted by the Doolittle Raid might disagree.

In May 1945, a B-29 lost its wing and crashed as a result and all the crew died in the crash. The locals in the area of the crash site cremated the dead. When the war came to an end, they handed those remains over to American forces. The area of the crash site is out in the wilderness but on the 10th anniversary after the end of the war, a shrine was made to enshrine the bomber crew and serve as a memorial to pass the story down to future generations.

http://ki43.on.coocan.jp/injapan/heiki8/kawaB29/b29.html

 

I don't know anything about the relatives of those causalties but such feelings of a personal grudge towards individual soldiers isn't apparant from my observation. It is generally understood that soldiers were doing their job and Lt col. Cole was doing his and he did so with distinction and that would be recognized as that. Whenever there is a problem about past events during the war and today's interpretations about it, its not this.

[Nobu]

In May 1945, a B-29 Superfortress crashed in northern Kyushu island. All the crew bailed out. One died when his parachute was sliced by a Japanese fighter. Two others were reportedly killed on the ground by angry locals. What happened to the remaining aircrew is best left unmentioned.

[JasonJ]

In May 1945, a B-29 Superfortress crashed in northern Kyushu island. All the crew bailed out. One died when his parachute was sliced by a Japanese fighter. Two others were reportedly killed on the ground by angry locals. What happened to the remaining aircrew is best left unmentioned.

Making a scene here is like the anti-war people making a scene at the funerals of those killed in the 2003 Iraq war. Or in one youtube video, there was a German feeling high and mighty that went to Yasukuni Shrine and while speaking in good Japanese he was making a big blah blah argument about how everyone going to visit the shrine should be jailed, attracting lots of pissed off Japanese and the police.

 

I've listened to lots a right wingers talking about WW2, the Doolittle Raid just isn't something that gets them worked up in a talking spree like other topics do. I really think your expressions in this thread are off balance.

Edited April 13, 2019 by JasonJ

[Murph]

My oldest daughter got to meet him, and he was a very nice, humble man. A real hero is humble, and he was.

[Nobu]

At some point, if there is indeed a spiritual afterlife reckoning, bomber aircrew may eventually meet those noncombatant civilians whose deaths they caused on the ground. It is there and then that final decisions will probably be made on who ultimately is a hero, who is forgiven, and who is not.

 

This applies to all bomber aircrew in my view, regardless of nationality.

 

a shrine was made to enshrine the bomber crew and serve as a memorial to pass the story down to future generations.

 

Safe to say that this particular shrine is probably not on Abe's bucket list.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Nobu

[rmgill]

Usrusai!

[Mikel2]

At some point, if there is indeed a spiritual afterlife reckoning, bomber aircrew may eventually meet those noncombatant civilians whose deaths they caused on the ground. It is there and then that final decisions will probably be made on who ultimately is a hero, who is forgiven, and who is not.

 

This applies to all bomber aircrew in my view, regardless of nationality.

 

a shrine was made to enshrine the bomber crew and serve as a memorial to pass the story down to future generations.

 

Safe to say that this particular shrine is probably not on Abe's bucket list.

 

What about civilians who enable their nations to go on murderous rampages across entire hemispheres, what moral responsibilities do they have?

 

I find WWII Japanese victimism to be sickening.

[Stuart Galbraith]

This seems appropriate...

 

The interesting thing about that variant is that the turret was relocated from that of the Raiders version, to give a better field of fire. Ironically as the RAF pilots who flew the original version (I think we called that Mitchell one) it actually had a better centre of gravity.

If you can find it, there is an excellent documentary 'B25's do fly in IMC' which featured aircrew bringing some Mitchells over to the UK in about 1981 or so for the filming of Hanover Street. Well worth watching.

 

As for the dead airmen meeting the dead civilians, I guess what comes around goes around. Personally Id love to be at the shindig where the crew of the USS Arizona gets to meet the dive bomber crews that killed them. Or for that matter, the crew of HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales meet the crews of the Betty bombers that bombed them.

 

I believe in Karma, sure, but there was a right and a wrong side and we shouldn't forget that either. Lets give due credit to the Japanese who fought so damn well. It wasn't their fault it was a misguided cause, and no reason why Karma should make either side suffer more than they already did.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Stuart Galbraith

[Nobu]

What about civilians who enable their nations to go on murderous rampages across entire hemispheres, what moral responsibilities do they have?

 

A justification for violence against non-combatant civilians along similar lines, involving the responsibility of those civilians on the ground who assisted and enabled the escape of the Doolittle Raiders, may have been a consideration in the Imperial Japanese Army's planning and execution of its subsequent 3-month campaign targeting the areas where the raiders landed.

 

Holding non-combatants responsible for the actions of their respective military forces is a slippery slope downward toward justifications for targeting medical personnel, nurses, clearly marked hospital ships, and civilian women and children as legitimate targets of war in various ways.

 

I find WWII Japanese victimism to be sickening.

 

My observation of how bomber aircrew may eventually meet those civilians whose deaths were caused by the bombs they dropped also applies to those IJNAF and IJAAF aircrew who participated in the bombing campaign against Chinese cities.

[JasonJ]

FDR was unwilling to meet with Konoye.

 

[Nobu]

I believe in Karma, sure, but there was a right and a wrong side and we shouldn't forget that either. Lets give due credit to the Japanese who fought so damn well. It wasn't their fault it was a misguided cause, and no reason why Karma should make either side suffer more than they already did

 

I believe that years of frontline and counterinsurgency combat in the China/Manchukuo theater brutalized the Imperial Japanese Army years before U.S. entry into the war. The IJA directive endorsed by the Emperor to remove the constraints of international law on the treatment of Chinese prisoners of war in Summer 1937 is sobering in various ways.

[JWB]

I believe in Karma, sure, but there was a right and a wrong side and we shouldn't forget that either. Lets give due credit to the Japanese who fought so damn well. It wasn't their fault it was a misguided cause, and no reason why Karma should make either side suffer more than they already did

 

I believe that years of frontline and counterinsurgency combat in the China/Manchukuo theater brutalized the Imperial Japanese Army years before U.S. entry into the war. The IJA directive endorsed by the Emperor to remove the constraints of international law on the treatment of Chinese prisoners of war in Summer 1937 is sobering in various ways.

Same thing caused the My Lai massacre.