Indian Air Strikes Target Militants In Pakistan (+)

[BansheeOne]

So far, Pakistan is clearly ahead in the PR battle.

 

Abhinandan, captured Indian pilot, freed by Pakistan

37 minutes ago

Pakistan has freed an Indian fighter pilot captured after his plane was shot down in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, amid rising tensions.

 

Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was handed over to Indian officials near a border crossing with Pakistan.

 

Minutes earlier, the pilot said on Pakistani TV that he was "very impressed" by the Pakistan army.

 

On Thursday Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan said the pilot's release was a "peace gesture" to India.

 

India and Pakistan - both nuclear powers - claim all of Kashmir, but each controls only parts of it.

 

On Friday Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said the events of the past few days had "brought our nation closer".

 

"The way the nation has supported our armed forces is extraordinary and I bow to every Indian for that," he said.

 

The pilot is being hailed as a hero in India, where crowds have been gathering carrying banners and garlands at the symbolic Wagah border crossing - the only legal crossing between India and Pakistan.

 

Tensions between the two countries have escalated sharply in the past few weeks.

 

On Tuesday, India carried out air strikes on what it said was a militant camp in Pakistan in retaliation for a suicide bombing that killed at least 40 Indian troops in Indian-administered Kashmir on 14 February.

 

A Pakistan-based group said it carried out the attack - the deadliest to take place during a three-decade insurgency against Indian rule in Kashmir.

 

Pakistan - which denies any involvement in the 14 February attack - said it had no choice but to retaliate to the Indian raids with air strikes on Wednesday. That led to a dogfight and the Indian fighter jet being shot down in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

 

[...]

 

Pakistan's military spokesman said that Pakistan fighter jets had carried out "strikes" - exactly what they did remains unclear - in Indian-administered Kashmir on Wednesday.

 

Two Indian air force jets then responded, crossing the de facto border that divides Kashmir. "Our jets were ready and we shot both of them down," Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said.

 

He said that one Indian pilot was in the custody of the Pakistani army.

 

Images then circulated of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman's capture, which were condemned for what appeared to be a physical attack at the hands of residents in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, but also praised because of the actions of the Pakistani soldiers who intervened to create a barrier.

 

Pakistan's information ministry published - but subsequently deleted - a video showing the blindfolded pilot, who could be heard requesting water, just after he had been captured.

 

In later footage, he could be seen sipping tea from a cup without a blindfold.

 

India's foreign ministry later issued a statement demanding the release of its fighter pilot and condemning the images, describing them as a "vulgar display of an injured personnel".

 

The pilot's family have not yet commented on the events.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47412884

[Tim the Tank Nut]

that pilot might ought to buy a lottery ticket, very lucky

[Stuart Galbraith]

With a moustache like that, im not surprised he survived. Fricking Sidewinder must have bounced off.

[Dark_Falcon]

So far, Pakistan is clearly ahead in the PR battle.

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47412884

 

If a Pakistani PR-win keeps the nukes from being fired, then its well worth it.

[glenn239]

Neither side seems at all, in the slightest, eager to escalate this thing. It ain't the PR that's making both sides reasonable, it's the nukes.

[Chris Werb]

Guys, please have a look at a map of the Kashmir border area and tell me where you are going to base Indian S400s and how you are going to get them to those bases.

[Special-K]

I just read on a different site that a Pakistani pilot was shot down and ejected, landing in Pakistan - only to be killed by other Pakistanis who mistook him for an Indian pilot. WTF...

 

 

ETA:

 

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2019/mar/01/pakistani-f-16-pilot-was-mistaken-to-be-an-indian-lynched-by-his-own-report-1945428.amp

 

On the day Pakistan handed back IAF fighter pilot Abhinandan Varthaman to India at Wagah, news has emerged that the Pakistan F-16 pilot Wing Commander Shahaz-ud-Din, downed on Wednesday, ended up being lynched by a mob in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) after being mistaken for an Indian.

 

The news of the Pakistan F-16 crashing was first reported by London-based lawyer Khalid Umar. Firstpost's Praveen Swami now claims that Umar was told by relatives of Shahaz-ud-Din of the sad fate that befell him.

 

Umar says that after parachuting out of his aircraft, Shahaz landed in the Laam valley that stretches westward from Naushehra to PoK. He was attacked by an angry mob who mistook him for an IAF pilot and ended up lynching him.

 

The Wing Commander flew for the crack 19 Squadron of the Pakistan Air Force and was the son of an Air Marshal, who had flown both the F-16 and the Mirage 2000.

 

 

 

-K

Edited March 2, 2019 by Special-K

[Nobu]

Until I see a non-Indian news source corroborating the Pakistani loss claim, I am going to remain skeptical of anything India and Indians are claiming, as they are in what looks to be face-saving mode in various ways.

[Chris Werb]

If true, its a very sad outcome.

[glenn239]

Guys, please have a look at a map of the Kashmir border area and tell me where you are going to base Indian S400s and how you are going to get them to those bases.

 

First, they'd have to have the thing, which they don't.

 

Deploy the radars and command center and some of the missiles somewhere around Jammu/Amritsar, with some of the battery's other missiles remotely deployed on the line Uri, Poonch, Hafthrada.

Edited March 2, 2019 by glenn239

[glenn239]

Until I see a non-Indian news source corroborating the Pakistani loss claim, I am going to remain skeptical of anything India and Indians are claiming, as they are in what looks to be face-saving mode in various ways.

 

The pilot has been named, so it's pretty easy for Pakistan to refute the claim by showing him - provided the claim is untrue, of course.

Edited March 2, 2019 by glenn239

[Nobu]

It remains difficult to parse the bulk of the Indian media coverage available regarding the F16 shootdown claim, as much of it seems to be having difficulty rising above emotionalist Indian jingoism in various ways. The latest non-Indian and non-Pakistani analysis of the probability of the F16 loss I have seen concludes that the photographic evidence supporting India's claim is faulty and actually shows MIG21 parts.

 

The pilot being named is interesting. I would like to see a photo ID first, however.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Nobu

[Chris Werb]

 

Guys, please have a look at a map of the Kashmir border area and tell me where you are going to base Indian S400s and how you are going to get them to those bases.

 

First, they'd have to have the thing, which they don't.

 

Deploy the radars and command center and some of the missiles somewhere around Jammu/Amritsar, with some of the battery's other missiles remotely deployed on the line Uri, Poonch, Hafthrada.

 

 

 

Now take a look at what that actually looks like in satellite imagery or a relief map. This is Uri, for example

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Uri+193123/@34.0881211,73.9639467,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x38e05748af885045:0xa67531f1a8648f93!8m2!3d34.0881166!4d74.0339852!5m1!1e4

[Yama]

Washington wants to know if Pakistan used U.S.-built jets to down Indian warplane

So, USA is reviewing possible end-user agreement violation as AMRAAMs apparently were meant to be used against Taliban (?) and not India.

Meanwhile, India bombed Pakistan with French made Mirages in blatant offensive action. In response, Pakistan bombed India with French-made Mirages. French don't seem to mind...

[GARGEAN]

AIM-120...

Against Taliban...

[Panzermann]

AIM-120...

Against Taliban...

 

Yeah, exaactly. Fear the Taliban Air Fleet! some dumbass politician wrote that agreement not knowing the local situation. The only other enemy Pakistan has that would need the application of an AMRAAM is China, but that front has been very quiet. so that of course leaves India.

[JasonJ]

 

AIM-120...

Against Taliban...

 

Yeah, exaactly. Fear the Taliban Air Fleet! some dumbass politician wrote that agreement not knowing the local situation. The only other enemy Pakistan has that would need the application of an AMRAAM is China, but that front has been very quiet. so that of course leaves India.

 

 

China and Pakistan have good military relations. They jointly developed the JF-17 and Al-Khalid tank. No reason to expect a turn around anytime soon.

[glenn239]

â€

Washington wants to know if Pakistan used U.S.-built jets to down Indian warplane

 

So, USA is reviewing possible end-user agreement violation as AMRAAMs apparently were meant to be used against Taliban (?) and not India.

 

Meanwhile, India bombed Pakistan with French made Mirages in blatant offensive action. In response, Pakistan bombed India with French-made Mirages. French don't seem to mind...

 

 

Trump's arms export policies seem not very well thought out - they're underscoring to countries all over the world that US weapons systems have serious political strings attached.

Edited March 4, 2019 by glenn239

[glenn239]

​

 

 

Guys, please have a look at a map of the Kashmir border area and tell me where you are going to base Indian S400s and how you are going to get them to those bases.

 

First, they'd have to have the thing, which they don't.

 

Deploy the radars and command center and some of the missiles somewhere around Jammu/Amritsar, with some of the battery's other missiles remotely deployed on the line Uri, Poonch, Hafthrada.

 

 

 

Now take a look at what that actually looks like in satellite imagery or a relief map. This is Uri, for example

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Uri+193123/@34.0881211,73.9639467,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x38e05748af885045:0xa67531f1a8648f93!8m2!3d34.0881166!4d74.0339852!5m1!1e4

 

 

 

If the battery radars are at Jammu or Amritsar then they are well situated to protect New Delhi and dominate the entire Punjab/Kashmir air space. Some missiles at Uri (deployed via the S-3) provide coverage further north. A-50 on patrol, or other such aerial network assets would have to provide via datalink the information to the S-400 command centre against targets attempting nap of the earth tactics in this region. That was my guess.

 

To go up against the SU-30/A77 the F-16/AMRAAM needs to be at high altitude coming eastwards over Islamabad for its best kinematic missile shot. But this is exactly the flight profile in which an S-400 at Jammu could chop them to pieces. Bit of a poser for the Pakistanis in that case.

Edited March 4, 2019 by glenn239

[Nobu]

So, USA is reviewing possible end-user agreement violation as AMRAAMs apparently were meant to be used against Taliban

 

Trump's arms export policies seem not very well thought out - they're underscoring to countries all over the world that US weapons systems have serious political strings attached.

 

The irony is that the main potential customer that will likely be disinclined from major purchases of U.S. military systems because of the political strings attached is India.

 

Not very well thought out may be a gentle way of putting it.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Thats ok. Im sure they will be delighted to buy Meteor and Brimstone instead.

[glenn239]

They already have the Chinese PL-12, which is supposed to be better than R-77.

[Yama]

Trump's arms export policies seem not very well thought out - they're underscoring to countries all over the world that US weapons systems have serious political strings attached.

I don't think it has anything to do with Trump. Pakistan's AMRAAM deal, for example, dates back to Bush Jr administration.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Yama

[Dark_Falcon]

 

Trump's arms export policies seem not very well thought out - they're underscoring to countries all over the world that US weapons systems have serious political strings attached.

I don't think it has anything to do with Trump. Pakistan's AMRAAM deal, for example, dates back to Bush Jr administration.

 

 

And just because the US wants to know if an AMRAAM was used doesn't mean a violation occurred. The US might just want to make sure Pakistan sends Raytheon the required data from the engagement.

 

Or the DoD might just be trying to get ahead of hostile questions from Congress or the media.

 

Personally, if AMRAAMs really were fired by F-16's in Pakistani airspace at Indian fighters that were also in Pakistani airspace when the missiles were fired, I doubt that the US will be able to find a violation. But the threat of a violation could help get to the bottom of what actually happened.

[Nobu]

The implicit threat of the power to punish violations determinable by Washington may as well be added to the F21 for India promotional brochures at this point.

 

If Lockheed Martin won't, Dassault, Saab, and EADS certainly will do so for it..