Cold War At Sea

[Stuart Galbraith]

Good interview with an F14 RIO.

 

[Chris Werb]

Apparently Egyptian pilots were amused at their allied Russian counterparts coming off second best against the Israelis in 1970 over the canal.

 

Attachment to doctrine may not survive first contact with a competent enemy.

 

The Israeli armour branch found the same thing in 1973 when they encountered the Egyptian Army at the Suez Canal and got clobbered with MCLOS ATGMs. That caused a rapid rethink too.

[bojan]

They actually drew "wrong" conclusions from 1967. and both own and Egyptian limited use of the ATGMs then.

Thing is that Egyprians in 1973. instead of having 4 x 2P26 launcher per brigade now had 4 x Sagger launcher per Bn + brigade AT group of 6 or 12 self-propelled 9P122 + separate AT companies with 8 Sagger launchers etc.

Mechanized units had even more.

And all this was layered with ATGs, tanks, SPGs, RCLs and hand-held AT weapons.

Edited April 30, 2019 by bojan

[Stuart Galbraith]

[RETAC21]

They actually drew "wrong" conclusions from 1967. and both own and Egyptian limited use of the ATGMs then.

Thing is that Egyprians in 1973. instead of having 4 x 2P26 launcher per brigade now had 4 x Sagger launcher per Bn + brigade AT group of 6 or 12 self-propelled 9P122 + separate AT companies with 8 Sagger launchers etc.

Mechanized units had even more.

And all this was layered with ATGs, tanks, SPGs, RCLs and hand-held AT weapons.

 

To be fair, when the war was analysed, most of the kills were by RPGs as the Israeli tankers took as an article of faith that the Arabs would run if charged with tanks. Only Sharon (who had broken through brilliantly at Abu Agheila) seemed to understand that this was sucidal.

 

The problem was exacerbated by the Israeli mobilisation system, as the tankers that went through the experience on the first 2 days weren't able to transmit their experience to the reservists who were poorly served by their 67 experience.

 

Still, the IDF recovered remarkably quickly and adapted their tactics within the first week, but the experience was traumatic enough that it marked the Israeli psyche to this day.

Edited May 1, 2019 by RETAC21

[Stuart Galbraith]

This is less about the Cold War than about seapower. But Kennedy has a lot of interesting things to say about power projection, and the future of America and its allies. I find it quite inspiring actually.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Good history of the development of the Forrestal and Kitty hawk class.

[JasonJ]

This is less about the Cold War than about seapower. But Kennedy has a lot of interesting things to say about power projection, and the future of America and its allies. I find it quite inspiring actually.

 

Although a little depressing with so much time spent on credit and having the financial house in order towards the end

 

Overall it was interesting, haven't considered the role of naval war during the Napoleonic years had played before.

[Stuart Galbraith]

He has a point thought. Ive read before, the British Royal Navy only really started being consistently successful when we had implimented some taxation reforms, I guess that would have been under Queen Anne. And as we saw, it proved just as successful building a decent field army.

 

In the end, our armed forces are only as good as our economy. Economizing on the military to balance the books is kind of doing it the wrong way round.

 

Glad you liked it anyway.

[Stuart Galbraith]

This is worth watching too. Particularly as the same debates over the rise of American naval power are being repeated to day in many of Trumps criticisms.

[Paul Lakowski]

Don't want to disrupt this great thread, but I watched a move PHANTOM, recently . While it had a curios plot, I wondered if the tactics and chatter of these soviet submariners sounds right or would it be closer to what a NATO submarine would sound like or do.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Its a fun film. I think they had the interplay between the characters broadly accurate for that period. OTOH, I think the last film anyone made that got submarine warfare was right was 'Das Boot'. Hunt for Red October was fun, but it was played around with a lot from the original book.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Interview with Stephen Coonts on the A6 Intruder.

https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/047-a-6-intruder/

[Stuart Galbraith]

Documentary on HMS Repulse on patrol in 1985.

[shep854]

The dive on the Family Day seemed to be a bit tense for the visitors.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Aircrew Interview with Hillary 'Toro' O'Connor Mueri, Tomcat D Riow who deployed in 2003 to air support over Iraq. Well worth listening to, the story in part 2 where she meets one of the guys she saved is just plain spooky.

 

[RETAC21]

Interesting, a look at Soviet/Russian submarine propellers

 

https://imgur.com/a/t6UjU#OPaQB0G

[Stuart Galbraith]

Thanks, thats truly interesting.

 

I really miss the Typhoons, it feels a very faux cold war without them.

[RETAC21]

Who would have thought it?

SOSUS vs Type XXI

 

http://www.iusscaa.org/articles/brucerule/sosus_versus_the_german_type_xxi_ss.htm

[Stuart Galbraith]

Tony Williams really should have put that in his alternative history novel.

[RETAC21]

The post that complements Soviet sub screws: US subs screws

 

https://imgur.com/a/IQBOi

[Ken Estes]

Also a great piece of nostalgia for US subs from the fleet boats to present day.

[Josh]

The post that complements Soviet sub screws: US subs screws

 

https://imgur.com/a/IQBOi

 

Wow, I'm surprised how revealing a lot of those photos were. Though I'm also surprised at how far back the seven blade skewback design that has become the global norm was adopted by the USN and largely standardized across the fleet. Wasn't aware that modern pump jets still used seven blades nor had I realized there was an 'anular skewback' blade set up on some modern LAs. I've never seen the 6" countermeasure launchers displayed before either; it is noticeable that they were added to fins on the LA class (I think as a late upgrade, but possibly original to the last production boats) where as VA's must mount them somewhere on the hull. A lot to learn in those pictures; surprised some of the more recent ones were released.

[RETAC21]

I guess that over time, the principles were well known and the main secret was how to manufacture them, but even that would be easy now with CAD. Some more:

 

One in an odd place, the former Agosta class boat Ouessant was sold to Malaysia and now it's a museum there:

 

 

 

Le Redoutable, also a museum ship:

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by RETAC21

[Josh]

In retrospect, the seven blade skew back configuration was bound to be copied. I had no idea that the USN nailed that configuration back in the 60's. The LA class had sharper tips, but then the LA class is widely rumored to have sacrificed, or at least not improved on, quieting compared the the Sturgeons for the sake of speed. But I had no idea that the first seven bladed boats dated back to the 60's; that is incredible. Obviously that was classified at the time. But still amazing that the USN nailed that configuration down so early.