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Changing to something like a 209 or 309 would presumably take less effort and time to retool than, say, an FW 190 as well.

 

Both had many handling issues and were a failure. Focke Wulf did far better when it came to integrating the DB 603 engine. Even the Italians had some advanced types for this engine.

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A few random musings.

 

As to why the 109 was kept in production, would the reason be, at least in part, because they couldn't afford to take production capacity offline to retool to make something better? Changing to something like a 209 or 309 would presumably take less effort and time to retool than, say, an FW 190 as well.

Once FW 190 came along, RLM was never too interested about replacing Bf-109. They were more concerned getting fighters to the operational units. Changing to new model would have disrupted production. Other belligrents did similar things.

Also, performance gains of Me-309 and 209 (309 came first, despite the designation) were modest over Bf-109 and as said, FW designs using the same engine were more promising.

 

309 was a neat looking machine, strong Airacobra-vibe.

 

Edited by Yama
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Does anyone happen to know of any sources that show unit locations in Normany in 1944 for luftwaffe units? I dont mean field infantry units, what im really after is anything that might show the location of Flak Battery's, Radar units, that kind of thing. Im thinking allied intelligence documents would probably be a better bet, but thus far ive drawn a blank.

 

III Flak-Korps

Gefechtsstand – Paris

Kdr: General der Flakartillerie Wolfgang Pickert

Ia: Oberstleutnant Wilhelm Schlodder

Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regt.1

Gefechtsstand – Isigny-Bayeux

Kdr: Oberst Paul von Kistowski

gemischte (gem.) Flak-Abtl.266 (mot)

Kdr: Hauptmann Schmuck

Gefechtsstand – south of Longueville

gem.Flak.-Abtl. 497 (mot)

Kdr: Hauptmann Stein

Gefechtsstand – northeast of Isigny

leichte (le.) Flak-Abtl. 90 (mot)

Gefechtsstand – Bayeux

Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regt. 2

Gefechtsstand – Amiens

Kdr: Oberst Josef Moser

gem.I./Flak-Regt. 20 (mot)

gem.II./Flak-Regt. 52 (mot)

le.Flak-Abtl. 80 (Sf)

Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regt. 3

Gefechtsstand – Arras

Kdr: Oberst Oskar Schöttl

gem.II./Flak-Regt. 22 (mot)

gem.II./Flak-Regt. 64 (mot)

le.Flak-Abtl. 84 (Sf)

Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regt. 4

Gefechtsstand – Amiens

Kdr: Oberst Herbert Röhler

gem.I./Flak-Regt. 35 (mot)

gem.I./Flak-Regt. 53 (mot)

gem.I./Flak-Regt. 141 (mot)

le.Flak-Abtl. 98 (Sfl)

Luftnachrichten-Abteilung 103

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Sorry, hope that makes sense, but the website strips out all the Word encoding. If you email me I'll be happy to send you the rest of the Flak organization in Ob.West, along with the various Flughafen-Bereich-sKommando. The radar sites I have found were:

 

Luftnachrichten-Regt. 51
Kdr: Major Udo Krauthausen
Stab
Gefechtsstand – Courthezon
I. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Courthezon
1. Fernsprech- und Fernschreib-Betriebs-Kompanie – Courthezon
2. Funk-Kompanie – Cheateauneuf-du-Pape
3. Flugmelde-Auswerte- und Betriebs-Kompanie – Cheateauneuf-du-Pape
4. Telegrafen-Bau-Kompanie – Cheateauneuf-du-Pape
25. Technische-Kompanie – Courthezon
II. Abtl.
5. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Mähre) – La Ciotat
6. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Maultier) – Montpellier
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Leuchtkäfer) – Leucate
8. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Rüsselkäfer) – St. Raphael
9. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Truthahn) – Toulon
III. Abtl.?
10. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Giraffe nonoperational?) – Le Salins de Grand
11. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Salamander nonoperational?) – Salon de
Provence
12. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Mungo nonoperational?) – La Motte-Chalacon
13. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Alligator) – Aubenas
14. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Ochse nonoperational?) – Orange
15. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Nachteule nonoperational?) – Nimes
16. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Leguan nonoperational?) – Lyon
17. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Bernhardiner nonoperational?) – Belmont
18. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Falter) – Fleurs
19. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Baselisk nonoperational?) – Beaurepaire
20. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Tapir nonoperational?) – Tournon
21. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Muräne) – Millau
Luftnachrichten-Regt. 52
Kdr: Oberst Ernst Engelke
Stab
Gefechtsstand – St. Pol
I. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – St. Pol
1. Fernsprech- und Fernschreib-Betriebs-Kompanie
2. Funk-Kompanie
3. Flugmelde-Auswerte- und Betriebs-Kompanie
4. Telegrafen-Bau-Kompanie
25. Technische-Kompanie
26. Funk-Leit-Kompanie
II. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Lille
5. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Ponny) – Le Panne
6. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Fohlen) – Voormezeele-Flandern
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Goldammer) – Grammont
8. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Dorsch) – Douai
9. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Krabbe) – Le Clipon
27. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Bremse) – Brügge
III. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – St. Pol
10. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Wels) – Wissant
11. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp (Radar Station Bulldogge) – Boulogne
12. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Pferd) – St. Pol
13. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Skorpion) – Vaudricourt
14. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Fliege) – St. Valery
IV. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Amiens
15. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Dickhauter) – Dieppe
16. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Mücke) – Amiens
17. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Biene) – Beauvais
18. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Pudel) – Peronne
19. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Koralle) – Clermont?
V. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand –Cambrai?
20. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Motte) – Mons
21. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Kater) – Le Cateau
22. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Krebs) – Crecy
23. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Ratte) – Reims
24. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Chamäleon) – Compiegne
Luftnachrichten-Regt. 53 –
Kdr: Oberst Flesch
Stab
Gefechtsstand – Bernay
I. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Paris
1. Fernsprech- und Fernschreib-Betriebs-Kompanie – Paris
2. Funk-Kompanie – Paris
3. Flugmelde-Auswerte- und Betriebs-Kompanie – Paris
4. Telegrafen-Bau-Kompanie – Paris
25. Technische-Kompanie – Cheville.
II. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Lisieux
5. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Auerhahn) – Cap d’Antifer
6. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Gepard) – Gaillon
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Baumläufer) – Bernay
8. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Distelfink) – Douvres-la-Délivrande
9. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Igel/Imme) – Isigny
10. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Kangeruh nonoperational?) – Coutances
III. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand - Argentan
11. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Vampir) – Vire
12. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Tausendfüssler) – Théville
13. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Ammer) – Auderville
14. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Goldfisch) – Guernsey
15. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Unknown nonoperational?) – Lessay
IV. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – St. Lô
16. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Wurm) – Verneuil
17. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Assel) – Argentan
18. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Made) – Mamers
19. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Milbe) – Mayenne
20. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Rotauge) – Rouen
22. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Pfau nonoperational?) – Pontorson
Luftnachrichten-Regt. 54
Kdr: Oberst Heinrich Bosse
Stab
Gefechtsstand – Pontivy?
I. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Jouy-en-Josas
1. Fernsprech- und Fernschreib-Betriebs-Kompanie
2. Funk-Kompanie
3. Flugmelde-Auswerte- und Betriebs-Kompanie
4. Telegrafen-Bau-Kompanie
32. Funk-Leit-Kompanie
35. Technische-Kompanie – Angers?
II. Abtl,
Gefechtsstand – Rennes?
5. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Frosch) – Cap Frehel
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Vierfüssler) – Vitre-sur-Rennes
8. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Pfauenauge) – Plougrescant?
9. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Molch) – Morlaix
III. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Brest?
10. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Pinguin) – Plabennec
12. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Renntier) – Pte du Raz
15. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Lachs) – Loudeauc
17. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Mandrill) – Montauban
V. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – St. Nazaire
19. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Nutria) – St. Nazaire
21. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Lumme) – Lorient
27. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Amöbe) – Lucon-sur-La Rochelle
VII. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Bordeaux
28. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Vogel) – Le Verdon-sur-Mer
29. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Karpfen) – Cazaux
31. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Buntspecht) – Bayonne
Luftnachrichten-Regt. 57
Kdr.
Stab
Gefechtsstand – Paris
I. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Paris
1. Fernsprech- und Fernschreib-Betriebs-Kompanie
2. Funk-Kompanie
3. Flugmelde-Auswerte- und Betriebs-Kompanie
4. Telegrafen-Bau-Kompanie
II. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Paris?
5. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Perlhuhn) – Les Alluets-le-Roi
6. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Emu) – Etampes
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Nusskaher nonoperational?) – Nangis
8. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Schnecke? nonoperational?) – Dreux?
9. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Bustard) – Le Plessis-Belleville?
III. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Orleans?
10. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Barbe) – Brou
11. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Orang nonoperational?) – Orleans
12. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Bekassine) – Bellegarde
13. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Brillenschlange) – Brinon
14. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Schildkröte) – Chantillon Coligny
15. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Barsch nonoperational?) – Briare
IV. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Troyes?
16. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Eisvogel) – Estissac
17. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Turmfalke nonoperational?) – Troyes
18. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Kanarienvogel nonoperational?) – Coulange-sur-
Yonne
19. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Sautier) – Saulieu
20. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Nebelkrähe nonoperational?) – Nevers
21. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station?) – Autun
Luftnachrichten-Regt. 203
Kdr. Oberst Eberhard Hettler
Stab
Gefechtsstand – Metz
I. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand - Metz
1. Fernsprech- und Fernschreib-Betriebs-Kompanie
2. Funk-Kompanie
3. Flugmelde-Auswerte- und Betriebs-Kompanie
4. Telegrafen-Bau-Kompanie
5. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Medea nonoperational?) – Morhange
6. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Milan nonoperational?) – unknown?
II. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Florennes
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 7a) – Malonne
8. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 7b) – Onhaye
9. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 7c nonoperational) – Fumay
10. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Dromedar nonoperational?) – Seurre
11. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Buchfink) – Buxy
12. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station Maulwerf nonoperational?) – Macon
III. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – Guignoncourt
13. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 8a) – Signy l'Abbaye
14. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 8b nonoperational?) – Rethel
15. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 8c nonoperational?) – Betheniville
IV. Abtl.
Gefechtsstand – St. Dizier
19. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 9a) – Vanault-les-Dames
20. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 9b nonoperational?) – Vitry-le-Francois
21. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. (Radar Station 9c) – Joinville

 

Other Known Radar Stations (possibly alternate code names for some of the others listed above):

Auk
Bastard
Berghuhn
Blindschleiche
Bock
Bohrwurm (Ln. 54)
Bulle
Dackel
Drache
Glucke
Grille
Lachttaube
Lurch
Maus
Muffel
Nilpferd
Rochen
Rolfeder (Ln. 54)
Schimpanse
Schlange
Sperber
Trappe
Wiesel
Zobel

Edited by Rich
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Thanks Rich,I think that will do fine.

 

You sure? :D III Flak-Korps was directly subordinated to Luftflotte 3., so that does not include the various Flak divisions and brigades assigned to the Luftgaukommando. Like 13. and 16. Flak-Division, and Flak-Brigade 1., 5., 12., 18., and 19. :D

 

It also does not include some notes that complicate things even more. For example, gem.Flak.-Abtl. 497 (mot), which was later redesignated I./Flak-Sturm-Regt.1 on 24 June 1944, was actually part of 13. Flak-Division (Stab/Flak-Regiment 15) at Rennes as late as 1 June and may still have been officially under its command on 6 June, since III Flak-Korps did not become operational until sometime between 1 and 6 June.

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I think what I really wanted doesnt seem to exist anymore. What would be best for me would be a map showing locations and equipment orbat of units in an area. Unit names are useful, but not really so much necessary as revealing what the orbat is. Doubtless they would move, but something that shows how it would be on D Day would be good.

 

I just wanted to fill the DCS Normandy map out with real world flak positions, but as they dont feature anything like a Freya or Giant Wurzburg in the sim yet, there is a limit to what can be done.

 

Dont put yourself out on it Rich, its no biggie. Its just something I would do to distract myself from the abysmal Christmas TV. :D

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I think what I really wanted doesnt seem to exist anymore. What would be best for me would be a map showing locations and equipment orbat of units in an area. Unit names are useful, but not really so much necessary as revealing what the orbat is. Doubtless they would move, but something that shows how it would be on D Day would be good.

 

I just wanted to fill the DCS Normandy map out with real world flak positions, but as they dont feature anything like a Freya or Giant Wurzburg in the sim yet, there is a limit to what can be done.

 

Dont put yourself out on it Rich, its no biggie. Its just something I would do to distract myself from the abysmal Christmas TV. :D

 

Well, from the unit names you can infer "equipment orbat". So, if the unit is given as le. Flak-Abtl. 90 (mot), then it most likely consists of three batteries, each of 12 2cm guns. If it is gem.I./Flak-Regt. 35 (mot), then it most likely consists of three heavy (8.8cm) and two light batteries (usually 2cm although some with 3.7cm). If its s.Flak-Abtl.278 (E) then its a heavy railroad battalion comprised of three batteries. And a little more digging at Lexikon or Michael Holm's site will fill in a lot of the gaps.

 

Meanwhile, the ares they are located in are included as well. :D

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So what you are saying is, im being lazy, right? :D

 

Which would be a fair point actually. Ok I wanted something to exercise my grey muscle, I think that will do nicely, thanks Rich.

 

Well, I just got back from 18 days of holiday, including rounding the Horn, and wanted something to do too. :D

 

Seriously, if you are interested in the units and locations, PM me your email and I'll be happy to send them to you.

Edited by Rich
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