shep854 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Yes, I see now. Instead of a gash like a knife, the metal of the hull split from the impact force of the blunt bow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Tanker was under tow as well at the time, but I also heard that the warship was stationery, so mistake by the tug?Not tow, but escort, in tight places like that, the tanker may have the escort tug tethered to act as a brake or to take over steering if something goes wrong with the ship. Most of the LNG and oil projects I have reviewed will require escort tugs doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Yeah, as far as Google translates from Norwegian news reports, the tug was going behind the tanker on a slack line. There's no official confirmation of claims that the local traffic control center called the frigate twice to advise they were on a collision course, to which the reply was that they were in control of the situation. Uncertainty whether Ingstad's stealth features contributed to the accident. Apparently they only switched on their AIS after the collision, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Stealth features should be irrelevant if she was properly lighted. The fault here is clearly on the warship as the tanker was under the control of the traffic center and was the less maneuvrable vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Im I the only one getting a Georg Thiele vibe from this wreck? I hope they manage to salvage her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Should be salvageable with some effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KV7 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 It looks like the captain stuffed up and/or had mechanical problems and did not want to own up to the problem, thus creating a much bigger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Salvageable for sure, but economically repairable? Not so certain. There were apparently some pressure to reduce the fleet (Finnish Navy actually studied buying some of them as one of the possibilities for fullfilling LV2020 requirement) and it is reported the fleet is suffering from chronic spares shortage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Presumably there is a Helo on board as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 The DM reoprted that 10,000l of helo fuel had leaked, but I don't give much credence to the detail in DM reports, that nay be the total carried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 The DM reoprted that 10,000l of helo fuel had leaked, but I don't give much credence to the detail in DM reports, that nay be the total carried. 10,000L really isn't a big deal. If it was in your local public swimming pool perhaps, but even in a decent sized fjord it wouldn't be much of a problem for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Looks like the Commercial vessel had her bow well out of the water. Probably just as well, if it was sitting lower it might have broke her back. The tanker has a massive anchor bulge on each side of the hull, appearently that was what caused the long gash in the hull of the frigate. Edited November 9, 2018 by TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Presumably there is a Helo on board as well? (insert hilarious laughter)The helicopter was supposed to be the NH-90, ordered 17 years ago and still not in active service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Salvageable for sure, but economically repairable? Not so certain. There were apparently some pressure to reduce the fleet (Finnish Navy actually studied buying some of them as one of the possibilities for fullfilling LV2020 requirement) and it is reported the fleet is suffering from chronic spares shortage. The whole armed forces have been cronically mismanaged since 2001. We currently spend close to double what the finns do on defence yet the results are meager at best. There is very little in therms of spare parts available since such items have to be kept in storage and keeping storage cost a lot of rent, having to be paid at market prices back to the armed forces building bureau, which is then returned to the state coffers as income, it is basically a closed artifical circle economy. Everything has been drawn down and as long as the army could provide a few hundred men to Whereverstan, the navy could sail a few vessels as part of international missions and the air force could provide a flight of fighters for the same, everything else was left to wither and no one complained as interest in the armed forces was minimal until very recently. There is also a massive bureaucracy inherited from the past 17 years which continue to soak up defence funds like crazy. When the F-35 "Wunderwaffe" will be introduced in a few years, the navy will be cut back from 5 frigates, 6 FACs, 6 MCVs and 6 diesel submarines to 5 frigates and 4 subs. The current government is making some efforts to fix the problems, but it usually involves further cuts to the little that remains in order to fund what is to remain from that. The best lessons that Finland can take from Norway and Sweden is to avoid doing anything that they have been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Jeez...GRU runs your MINDEF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018  Presumably there is a Helo on board as well? (insert hilarious laughter)The helicopter was supposed to be the NH-90, ordered 17 years ago and still not in active service.   Oh well, count your blessings then, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018  Presumably there is a Helo on board as well? (insert hilarious laughter) The helicopter was supposed to be the NH-90, ordered 17 years ago and still not in active service.  In other words, type selection showed considerable foresight  The whole armed forces have been cronically mismanaged since 2001. We currently spend close to double what the finns do on defence yet the results are meager at best. There is very little in therms of spare parts available since such items have to be kept in storage and keeping storage cost a lot of rent, having to be paid at market prices back to the armed forces building bureau, which is then returned to the state coffers as income, it is basically a closed artifical circle economy. Everything has been drawn down and as long as the army could provide a few hundred men to Whereverstan, the navy could sail a few vessels as part of international missions and the air force could provide a flight of fighters for the same, everything else was left to wither and no one complained as interest in the armed forces was minimal until very recently. There is also a massive bureaucracy inherited from the past 17 years which continue to soak up defence funds like crazy. When the F-35 "Wunderwaffe" will be introduced in a few years, the navy will be cut back from 5 frigates, 6 FACs, 6 MCVs and 6 diesel submarines to 5 frigates and 4 subs. The current government is making some efforts to fix the problems, but it usually involves further cuts to the little that remains in order to fund what is to remain from that. Oh yeah, whole 'market rate rent' thing exists here as well. About half of the garrisons have been closed and Army had to melt down half of its artillery when it was introduced (leaving us with mere 600 pieces). Even better, schools and universities now also have to pay 'market rate rent' which in practice means that the state enterprise looks up absolutely highest local rates (main street rates) and bills accordingly. As a result universities have had to cut much of the unproductive useless stuff like research or teaching and concentrate on making money for state. So much for vaunted Finnish education! We were super close going down the "Power projection peacekeeping army" road, there were lots of calls to scrap the outdated defence system and so forth, until Georgian war happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 TLDR....don't go to war to liberate bits of real estate you have a dispute with the Russians over. Just cut all the arts and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Yama, you mentions schools and universities but not churches. Do churches get a 'free pass'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Church property is owned by church, not the state, so they're not part of the rent blood-sucking scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018   Presumably there is a Helo on board as well?(insert hilarious laughter)The helicopter was supposed to be the NH-90, ordered 17 years ago and still not in active service.  In other words, type selection showed considerable foresight  The whole armed forces have been cronically mismanaged since 2001. We currently spend close to double what the finns do on defence yet the results are meager at best. There is very little in therms of spare parts available since such items have to be kept in storage and keeping storage cost a lot of rent, having to be paid at market prices back to the armed forces building bureau, which is then returned to the state coffers as income, it is basically a closed artifical circle economy. Everything has been drawn down and as long as the army could provide a few hundred men to Whereverstan, the navy could sail a few vessels as part of international missions and the air force could provide a flight of fighters for the same, everything else was left to wither and no one complained as interest in the armed forces was minimal until very recently. There is also a massive bureaucracy inherited from the past 17 years which continue to soak up defence funds like crazy. When the F-35 "Wunderwaffe" will be introduced in a few years, the navy will be cut back from 5 frigates, 6 FACs, 6 MCVs and 6 diesel submarines to 5 frigates and 4 subs. The current government is making some efforts to fix the problems, but it usually involves further cuts to the little that remains in order to fund what is to remain from that.Oh yeah, whole 'market rate rent' thing exists here as well. About half of the garrisons have been closed and Army had to melt down half of its artillery when it was introduced (leaving us with mere 600 pieces). To be fair 600 is rather a lot. You then "discovered" a metric shedload of artillery pieces in service with your naval service - not sure how that happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Coastal artillery under a navy command? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Coastal artillery under a navy command? They would be shooting at targets on the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Coastal artillery in the UK, Canada and the US was under army command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Coastal artillery in the UK, Canada and the US was under army command.Kreigsmarine for the WW2 Germans. Idk if that was the case for the Imperial Navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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