17thfabn Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Is there any weapon that has a combination sound suppressor, muzzle brake and flash suppressor? If so, how long would it have to be for 5.56 or 7.62 weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I think the functional effects of the mechanisms cancel each other out in some of the functional area. Muzzle brakes will eject gas to the side which is the opposite of what a flash suppressor is attempting to do which is reduce the flash visible. Suppressors (auditory) need to contain the gases which is the opposite of what a muzzle brake does. Now, sound suppressors ALSO suppress muzzle flash by their mechanism. Size of the suppressor relates to caliber and material as well as rate of fire. MG suppressors for 7.62mm tend to be on the large size and steel so as to handle the large amount of heat. You can get by with a smaller 7.62mm suppressor for a bolt action rifle. The larger it is, the better it will suppress. Look at the size of the deLisle carbines for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) I was just thinking, what type of 5.56mm or 7.62 would need a muzzle brake? 12.7 I can believe, but the smaller calibres? As a 13 year old I fired SMLE .303, as did smaller and lighter cadets, and so long as you pull the butt into the shoulder there was not much recoil to worry about. Edited November 1, 2018 by DougRichards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I think the functional effects of the mechanisms cancel each other out in some of the functional area. Muzzle brakes will eject gas to the side which is the opposite of what a flash suppressor is attempting to do which is reduce the flash visible. Suppressors (auditory) need to contain the gases which is the opposite of what a muzzle brake does. Now, sound suppressors ALSO suppress muzzle flash by their mechanism. Size of the suppressor relates to caliber and material as well as rate of fire. MG suppressors for 7.62mm tend to be on the large size and steel so as to handle the large amount of heat. You can get by with a smaller 7.62mm suppressor for a bolt action rifle. The larger it is, the better it will suppress. Look at the size of the deLisle carbines for example. The De Lisle also had the advantage of firing a pistol round at subsonic velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Is there any weapon that has a combination sound suppressor, muzzle brake and flash suppressor? XM-177? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastdingo Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 All-metal sound suppressors have all three effects sound suppression- somewhatflash hiding - very goodmuzzle brake effect - little effect (difference can be felt, as the peak recoil force is reduced)compensator effect - little reduction of muzzle riseaccurizer effect - somewhat less dispersion (and very different zero than without sound suppressor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Is there any weapon that has a combination sound suppressor, muzzle brake and flash suppressor? XM-177? The main purpose of the moderator muzzle device was to change the sound of firing to not sound like an M16 and more like an AKM to deceive the opponent in the dense jungles. Hiding the giant fire balls that such a short 556 makes are also welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 That was main purpose, but it did work as MB, FH and suppressor also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 You described a suppressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Collins Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I thought the compensator or whatever that is on the XM177 was mainly to reduce otherwise excessive muzzle flash. Does M855 and newer play nicer with short barrels than M193? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 When I met AAC's owner/founder with Oleg something like 15 years ago, he described how they had figured out the effect of dispersion on their suppressor combos and built into their later muzzle attachment devices an indexing effect so that you could be sure that when you installed the suppressor after zeroing, you were getting a consistent poi shift. In some cases, depending on firearm/ammo/suppressor combos and proper indexing, you could get an effective slight rise in point of impact that was very predictable for scope adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I'm not sure that suppressors increase accuracy - if they did, I would expect to see them on target rifles here in the UK and in other permissive countries. On the other hand, in my experience, they certainly do not detract from accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 See 9 Hole SPR Mk12 on Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I thought the compensator or whatever that is on the XM177 was mainly to reduce otherwise excessive muzzle flash. Does M855 and newer play nicer with short barrels than M193? M855 A1 has been specifically designed to be fired from shorter barrels. M855 was designed when the M16 was still the general issue rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Just what do muzzle boosters do? I'm still not clear about them. Edited November 2, 2018 by shep854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Just what do muzzle boosters do? I'm still not clear about them.In the Maxim gun (or the MG42 and similar recoil action guns) the booster redirects gases onto the barrel muzzle to push back on it to activate the action by pushing the barrel rearwards. Actually now thinking about it, the barrel acts as a piston to move the mechanismn. Edited November 2, 2018 by Panzermann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Edited November 2, 2018 by rmgill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 That makes sense. I had looked at rhe wiki before posting, but are boosters on shorty AKs the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-44 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I think they're more / just a conical type of flash hider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 That makes sense. I had looked at rhe wiki before posting, but are boosters on shorty AKs the same thing? Kind of. The big multipart muzzle devices on the shorty bulgarian AKs or the famous one from the AKS-74U are basically little gas chambers at the muzzle to dam up gas to create more pressure to cycle the action, because these short barrels do not leave enough time to build up enough pressure. The bullet uncorks the bottle too early if you will. I think they're more / just a conical type of flash hider. A case of it depends. Though most of the time AK muzzle devices are compensators and/or brakes and not flash hiders. The famous slant cut muzzle device does nothing to hide the flash and the AK-74 one is a flash enhancer if anything, but a very effective brake and compensator. Off the top of my head I cannot think of a military issue AK coming with a flash hider except the Galil and R4 and related rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 That makes sense. I had looked at rhe wiki before posting, but are boosters on shorty AKs the same thing? Kind of. The big multipart muzzle devices on the shorty bulgarian AKs or the famous one from the AKS-74U are basically little gas chambers at the muzzle to dam up gas to create more pressure to cycle the action, because these short barrels do not leave enough time to build up enough pressure. The bullet uncorks the bottle too early if you will.Dwell time I think they're more / just a conical type of flash hider. A case of it depends. Though most of the time AK muzzle devices are compensators and/or brakes and not flash hiders. The famous slant cut muzzle device does nothing to hide the flash and the AK-74 one is a flash enhancer if anything, but a very effective brake and compensator. Off the top of my head I cannot think of a military issue AK coming with a flash hider except the Galil and R4 and related rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 AKML flash hider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 What about 'muzzle cups'? I can't find much mention, but I've seen photos (mostly on AKs) of a cup-like device on the muzzle that seems to enclose a brake/suppressor and apparently is intended to direct muzzle blast from a brake back forward, instead of to the sides. It would seem to negate the brake's advantages, but am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Bulgy inspired blast diverters. Used to produce backpressure as well as redirecting blast. Used for shorties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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