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American Equipment And Generals Suck, Part Whatever


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From WIKI:

 

 

For logistical and command reasons, General Eisenhower decided to place Bradley's First and Ninth Armies under the temporary command of Field Marshal Montgomery's 21st Army Group on the northern flank of the Bulge. Bradley was incensed, and began shouting at Eisenhower: "By God, Ike, I cannot be responsible to the American people if you do this. I resign."[26] Eisenhower turned red, took a breath and replied evenly "Brad, I—not you—am responsible to the American people. Your resignation therefore means absolutely nothing."[27] Bradley paused, made one more protest, then fell silent as Eisenhower concluded "Well, Brad, those are my orders."[27]

 

I resign. :rolleyes:

That is really insubordination in a combat zone almost as bad as Mark Clark several months earlier in the Liri Valley.

 

Given the source for that outburst, it is an open question whether or not it actually happened that way or not. :D

 

What was Clark's insubordination in the Liri? Do you mean the Anzio-Liri-Rome breakout operations? That was about as bad as it gets.

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Wellington was just 45 at Waterloo, Bonaparte was about the same age

 

Bonaparte was a general at age 25, emperor at 35. His greatest victories were against generals much older than he was, and he had superior stamina for the campaigns.

 

The German Army on the Eastern front in 1941-45 found that the older generals could not keep their health in the primitive conditions therein.

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Wellington was just 45 at Waterloo, Bonaparte was about the same age

 

Bonaparte was a general at age 25, emperor at 35. His greatest victories were against generals much older than he was, and he had superior stamina for the campaigns.

 

Yep, and arguably by 1809 and Aspern-Essling and Wagram he was past his prime at 39.

 

 

The German Army on the Eastern front in 1941-45 found that the older generals could not keep their health in the primitive conditions therein.

 

Yep, I suspect on average German divisional commanders were younger than their American and British contemporaries. The youngest German commander was 33, the youngest American was 37.

Edited by Rich
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At least a number of aged officers were reactivated and promoted general. My great-grandfather, born 1 December 1878, entered the Prussian army in 1897 and was initially released from active service in the Reichswehr as a recently-promoted full colonel in January 1931, aged 52.

 

He remained a civilian staffer for the Territorial Commander Hesse-Nassau, was reactivated as a "supplementary officer" in October 1933 and made commander of Reichswehr Recruiting Post Kassel II. Commander of Infantry Replacement Regiment 214 in Aschaffenburg from June 1940, taken back in fully active service and promoted major general in April 1941, became commander of Replacement Brigade 201 in Fulda from June, made a regular brigade while still being stood up. Retired on health reasons in summer 1942 after deployment to Belarus, aged 63.

Edited by BansheeOne
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Eylau, 1807 as part of defeating the Russians

 

 

"Those are bullets, not turds!"

 

 

I think quite a lot of German generals were activated from the reserve for WWII.

 

Yes, but most of the overage ones were placed in the Ersatzheer or in the Reservedivisionen, as well as in occupation duties. I know someone did a study of age of generals in the British Army - England perhaps? - and it seems to me there was a similar one on the American Army. The German shouldn't be all that hard, just crunching through the bios on Lexikon. There used to be some more comprehensive lists on line, but they seemed to have disappeared?

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Wellington was just 45 at Waterloo, Bonaparte was about the same age

 

Bonaparte was a general at age 25, emperor at 35. His greatest victories were against generals much older than he was, and he had superior stamina for the campaigns.

 

Yep, and arguably by 1809 and Aspern-Essling and Wagram he was past his prime at 39.

 

 

 

 

More than that, the Grand Army had lost several of his best marshals and generals, Lannes (KIA) and Murat (invalid) in particular. Spain was also a crucial factor. Archduke Charles was two years younger than Nap at those battles and never fought another significant action again.

 

Otherwise, it's still true that 'youth is wasted on the young....'

Edited by Ken Estes
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More than that, the Grand Army had lost several of his best marshals and generals, Lannes (KIA)

 

Well, yes, that was part of my point. After all, Lannes was mortally wounded on the second day at Aspern-Essling.

 

 

and Murat (invalid) in particular.

 

I had not heard that? What was his illness...besides greed and narcissism? :D

 

 

Spain was also a crucial factor.

 

Indeed later, but IIRC much of the initial invasion force was withdrawn for the second campaign in Austria in 1809. On the whole though, I think it was the campaign of 1807-1808 against the Russians that gutted the Grand Armee and reduced its tactical effectiveness.

 

 

Archduke Charles was two years younger than Nap at those battles and never fought another significant action again.

 

Two years, three weeks... :D IIRC Charles relinquished his military career voluntarily at the end of the 1809 Campaign due to his ill health. I suspect another factor was his brother ignoring his advice to delay war against France until the army reforms were complete.

 

 

Otherwise, it's still true that 'youth is wasted on the young....'

 

Yep. :D

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For an item of American equipment that can qualify as one of the best...

 

https://www.zazzle.com/p_38_can_opener_t_shirt-235163289018324420

I can't disagree with that at all. I have one on my key ring.

 

Called the 'John Wayne' in the Marines. I, too, still have one on my key ring. The first one I picked up in 1975, it's almost spread flat.

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For an item of American equipment that can qualify as one of the best...

 

https://www.zazzle.com/p_38_can_opener_t_shirt-235163289018324420

 

I can't disagree with that at all. I have one on my key ring.

Same. It’s served as a field-expedient screwdriver many more times than it has been to open cans (most recently on Friday when I used the pointy part to tighten some small Phillips-head screws on a piece of equipment).

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For an item of American equipment that can qualify as one of the best...

 

https://www.zazzle.com/p_38_can_opener_t_shirt-235163289018324420

I can't disagree with that at all. I have one on my key ring.

 

Called the 'John Wayne' in the Marines. I, too, still have one on my key ring. The first one I picked up in 1975, it's almost spread flat.

 

 

A similar device in the Australian Defence Force (that I first met back in 1970) is called a FRED: It has a spoon on the end, and the official title is 'Field Ration Eating Device'. The unofficial nomenclature is Fucking Ridiculous Eating Device.

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  • 1 month later...

 

Wellington was just 45 at Waterloo, Bonaparte was about the same age

 

Alexander was in his early 20's when he conquerored the known world. In his forties it would have been 'in a minute, im just going to have nap first. Yes, im aware the hedge needs cutting' etc etc.

 

 

Well, his dad was still a ferocious warrior at the age of 54, and preparing to invade Persia (boots were on the ground already inside the Achaemenid empire, he would probably follow soon) when murdered.

 

Caesar from his 51 to 56 th years fought a very intensive civil war against fellow Roman troops commanded by good generals, got himself into dire straits a few times (like fighting a in a civil war in Egypt with very few troops), casually defeated a large invading Pontic-Armenic army, quelled a mutiny amongst his veteran troops. Controlled Rome by writing letters while on campaign, forstered a child with Cleopatra VII, etc.... now that is some stamina.... I guess the man was done for the moment he could quitly settle in Rome with few things to do exept to try to hold on his power, i.e. when he had basically nothing to do, exept than trying to keep up the facade that he was absolutely NOT a dictator with unlimited powers....

Edited by Inhapi
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Wellington was just 45 at Waterloo, Bonaparte was about the same age

 

Bonaparte was a general at age 25, emperor at 35. His greatest victories were against generals much older than he was, and he had superior stamina for the campaigns.

 

The German Army on the Eastern front in 1941-45 found that the older generals could not keep their health in the primitive conditions therein.

 

 

It has been suggested that Napoleons lack of Stamina at Waterloo was one of the causes of his defeat. Some memoirs decribe him as a husk compared to the vigorous leader they knew before. On the other hand he did an impressive trip trough the Alps to get into France. So believe what you want....

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A bit late in the discussion, but why did Bradley get his 5th star anyway ? I thought 5 stars was reserved for serious troubles (like in global war and total mobilisation...), or am I being naïve here ?

Edited by Inhapi
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A bit late in the discussion, but why did Bradley get his 5th star anyway ? I thought 5 stars was reserved for serious troubles (like in global war and total mobilisation...), or am I being naïve here ?

ISTR Truman wanted to prevent Monty from dominating.

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Nap landed on the French Riviera between Cannes and Antibes [Gulfe Juan, specifically] and the road to Grenoble was not alpine. By then, Soult had surrendered and the 100 Days was on....

Almost the same place the Allies landed in WWII.

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