Jump to content
tanknet.org

Second Chinese Carrier


Recommended Posts

 

 

 

China and Chinese will likely use the second carrier to increase the quality and quantity of their training in fixed-wing carrier operations, unfortunately.

 

Allowing them to have caught up, and to have potentially exceeded, Japanese carrier operations expertise is almost unforgivable in various ways.

 

How good is Chinese ASW?

 

How good are the Japanese in offensive submarine operations?

 

Why the seeming need to match China carrier with carrier when one can sink the carrier by other means?

 

 

At the same time, the IJN.....

 

 

:D

 

 

Ken Estes maintains that calling the Japanese Navy the Self-Defence Force is just a cover for the real name. I fully agree. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Nice graph. They are getting pretty big. Although by the end of 2019, 4 Type 55 might yet to enter service, but in any case, 4 have been launched, with one or two of those 4 already are at sea trials. And 4 more are being made for a total of 8 accounted for. And they are not stopping at the 13 depicted Type 52Ds since as of now, up to 23 of them might be made, assuming they stop at that. And not long ago they finished a new submarine production facility. So in time even the quantity of the good stuff in that graph is going to be dwarfed :ph34r:

Edited by JasonJ
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would argue that tentacle porn is offensive enough that the Japanese need not worry about an aircraft carrier:P

 

You will receive no argument from me on that point. The Japanese porn industry is both offensive and worthy of contempt in various ways. What makes it even worse is that neither the Koreans nor the Chinese have succumbed to the compulsion for creating this phenomenon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 7 months later...

Related to the discussion about the J-20 vs FC-31 competition in the first page of this thread, a naval version of the J-20 looks like to be developed.

Military insiders say the aircraft appears to have beaten the FC-31 in the race to become the PLA Navys fighter of the future

 

A military source close said it would be almost impossible to develop both aircraft over the next few years given the risk of an economic downturn

 

Chinas military is likely to pick the countrys first active stealth fighter, the J-20, for its next generation aircraft carriers, according to military sources and a recent report on state media.

 

The J-20, made by the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC), appears to have a won a head-to-head contest with the FC-31, a fighter made by another company which is still undergoing testing.

 

A military insider told the South China Morning Post that the Central Military Commission, the Peoples Liberation Armys top decision-making body, now favoured adapting the J-20 for its new carriers.

 

The Chengdu Aerospace Corporation will announce some new products, which will include a new version of their J-20. You can guess what type it will be, the military insider, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject, said.

 

The FC-31 was independently developed by CACs sister company Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC), which also produced the J-15 the jets currently in use on the countrys only active aircraft carrier, the Liaoning.

 

Both aerospace firms are subsidiaries of the state-owned giant Aviation Industry Corporation of China, which specialises in designing and developing military aircraft, and were set up to ensure benign competition between manufacturers.

 

However, the SAC has faced criticism from some military leaders and experts for being too conservative and failing to innovate because of its bureaucratic structure.

 

 

A recent programme aired by the state broadcaster China Central Television also suggests the J-20 will be chosen.

 

An episode of Military Documentary shown on August 16 reported how the PLA Navy was selecting candidates for pilot training and illustrated the feature with a mock-up of jets that looked like J-20s taking off from a carrier.

Ground-based J-20s also known as Powerful Dragons entered service with the PLA Air Force in 2017. Mass production of the stealth fighters began late last year as China stepped up its efforts to counter the deployment of American F-22s and F-35s in the Asia-Pacific region.

 

If the selection of the J-20 is confirmed it will mark the end of a lengthy debate between its supporters and advocates of the FC-31 as to which would make a better carrier-based fighter.

 

Those who favoured the J-20 said it was more advanced and reliable than the FC-31, but its supporters said it was more light and nimble.

 

Both the J-20 and FC-31 have their advantages. The size of the J-20 is similar to the J-15 since both are powerful heavy fighters, Song Zhongping, a military commentator for Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television, said.

 

Song said the lighter FC-31 could be developed into a medium-sized carrier fighter that would complement the J-20 in future.

 

But another military source close to the PLA Navy said it would be almost impossible to develop both aircraft over the next few years given the risk of an economic downturn as the trade war with the US continues to escalate.

 

The source said Chinas next generation aircraft carriers would be with equipped electromagnetic catapults similar to those used on the US Navys Ford-class supercarriers.

 

These enable the use of heavier fighters because they are more powerful than the older diesel systems used on older carriers.

 

The key problem of the J-20 is not weight, but length. If it wants to be a carrier-based fighter jet, it needs to be made shorter.

 

Military insiders have previously said that CAC engineers are working to produce a shorter version of the J-20 that will work with the new launch system.

 

At present both the J-20 and F-31 still rely on Russian engines. The WS-15 engine that has been purpose built for the J-20 has undergone hundreds of hours of testing but has yet to meet reliability targets while the F-31 prototype does not have a purpose-built engine.

 

Chinas navy plans to build at least four carrier battle groups by 2030, three of which will be active at any given time.

 

Miliary analysts say China will need at least a decade to develop its new generation carrier-based fighters, so the J-15 will remain in service for at least a decade, if not two.

 

The J-15 made its maiden flight in 2009 and has been in service since 2012. They are the only fighters based on the Liaoning and will be used by its sister ship the Type 001A when it enters service, probably later this year.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3024430/young-gun-takes-innovation-mission-top-chinese-fighter-jet-job Edited by JasonJ
Link to post
Share on other sites

What I find pretty depressing, in 2019, is the fact that people in charge feel they have to counter whatever the other side has by buying the same thing themselves. In this day and age that's just silly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

China doesnt want to counter America. They want to be a big power like America and do as America does. To do that, they are going to require a certain amount of emulation of what America has.

 

I strongly doubt they are going to stop at 2. Or whether they are going to be happy to remain with ones at this size. They are already starting to emulate LHA ships like the Tarawa. I dont suppose its going to stop there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both the Chinese and Taiwanese Republic of Chinese have considerable coastlines on that body of water, unfortunately. Their joint territory grab is anchored on them.

There has been consistency in yearly made surveys about identity which always resulted in roughly 10% Chinese, 10% Chinese and Taiwanese, and 80% Taiwanese. By now, you should be aware of that so stop spreading disinformation. Maybe you would also want to know that among those that identify as Chinese don't all mean pro-Beijing since at minimum some 1,000s of them are those that moved out of HK and to Taiwan since 1997.

Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the U.S. Congressional Research Service, the Spratly Islands which form the most extreme bulge of the Chinese SCS dashed line claim, as well as Scarborough Shoal, are claimed entirely by the Taiwanese/Republic of Chinese.

 

It makes no mention of Taipei's claims on the Paracels, but the Taiwanese/Republic of Chinese government itself clarifies this omission on the official website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Chinese (Taiwan) as follows:

 

Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of China (Taiwan) reiterates its position on the South China Sea Date: 2011/05/25 Data Source: 公眾外交協調會
No. 167 May 25, 2011 On May 19 this year, the government of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam claimed the Shisha Islands (Paracel Islands) and the Nansha Islands (Spratly Islands), which belong to the Republic of China (Taiwan), to be an integral part of Vietnamese territory. Then, on May 23, the presidential spokesperson of the Republic of the Philippines stated that Reed Bank, which is part of the Nansha Islands, is in Western Palawan and therefore an integral part of the territory of the Philippines. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) of the Republic of China (Taiwan) reiterates its position as follows: 1.Reed Bank is part of the Nansha Islands. Whether looked at from the perspective of history, geography or international law, the Nansha Islands, the Shisha Islands, the Chungsha Islands (Macclesfield Islands) and the Tungsha Islands (Pratas Islands), as well as their surrounding waters, sea beds and subsoil, are all an inherent part of the territory of the Republic of China (Taiwan). These archipelagoes therefore fall under the sovereignty of the Republic of China (Taiwan), and the government reasserts that it enjoys all rights over the islands and their surrounding waters, and that it does not accept any claim to sovereignty over, or occupation of, these areas by other countries.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if Taiwan was to officially end its agreement to the one-China policy (which would risk a huge backlash that even the US would want to avoid) and thus end the argument of claiming the SCS on "China" basis, the Tsai government has been talking up a narrative that could still be used as a diplomatic argument basis for a claim over the South China Sea. That narrative is that Taiwan has historically been a sea faring country even way before its time when part of the Qing dynasty. That line of argument is also used as leverage for engaging with Japan regarding the Senkaku islands or Okinotori.

 

But thinking from their perspective, the PRC is never going to let go of the 9 line dash claim. If the PRC was to succeed in turing the South China Sea into a China defacto-controlled sea, it means a worse strategic situation for Taiwan since it would strengthen naval encirclment of Taiwan itself by being buttressed at the south end.

 

Of course it does complicate any efforts to diplomatically resolve the claims in the SCS. But even if Taiwan was to remove its claim, could anyone fancy the PRC would abondon the 9 dash line claim too? Of course not.

 

So meh on Taiwan's claim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ing-wen's insistence on asserting the Taiwanese Republic of Chinese claims in the South China Sea is revealing. There may be a limit to the usefulness of an anti-Chinese proxy that clings to the talismans of shared identity in the form of Taiping Island in various ways.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

China has no love for its Su33 copy.

https://defensemaven.io/warriormaven/history/china-copied-this-advanced-russian-fighter-and-now-it-has-big-problems-jIsfb0ZVbkyuqUmPrBi7cA/

 

With a barely disguised touch of schadenfreude, Sputnik News delved into the woes of the J-15. "Love for the fourth-generation J-15 jet is seldom shown in Chinese circles," said the Russian news site. "The Asia Times noted that Chinese media has disparaged the plane in numerous ways, including referring to it as a 'flopping fish' for its inability to operate effectively from the Chinese carriers, which launch fixed-wing aircraft under their own power from an inclined ramp on the bow of the ship. The J-15's engines and heavy weight severely limit its ability to operate effectively: at 17.5 tons empty weight, it tops the scales for carrier-based fighters. The US Navy's F-18 workhorse, by comparison, is only 14.5 tons."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Beggars can't be choosers. They went with what was available and then made a second copy to rectify what could be rectified but are trying to solve a problem that is unsolvable, the Kuznetsov class was designed to operate within a Soviet fleet that relied on missiles for its offensive punch and used fixed wing aircraft as interceptors only (which is what the Su-27 was intended to be only).

 

Trying to build a multipurpose carrier out of that is complicated because the shoe will always be tight. Building a completely new naval aviation infrastructure as they are doing now it's neither easy nor cheap.

Link to post
Share on other sites

China has no love for its Su33 copy.

https://defensemaven.io/warriormaven/history/china-copied-this-advanced-russian-fighter-and-now-it-has-big-problems-jIsfb0ZVbkyuqUmPrBi7cA/

 

With a barely disguised touch of schadenfreude, Sputnik News delved into the woes of the J-15. "Love for the fourth-generation J-15 jet is seldom shown in Chinese circles," said the Russian news site. "The Asia Times noted that Chinese media has disparaged the plane in numerous ways, including referring to it as a 'flopping fish' for its inability to operate effectively from the Chinese carriers, which launch fixed-wing aircraft under their own power from an inclined ramp on the bow of the ship. The J-15's engines and heavy weight severely limit its ability to operate effectively: at 17.5 tons empty weight, it tops the scales for carrier-based fighters. The US Navy's F-18 workhorse, by comparison, is only 14.5 tons."

 

I would not read too much of it. Reports which come to Russian and Western medias via Chinese and Indian sources are often very distorted. Obviously J-15 is going to be temporary solution for PLAN, something to get the ball rolling while long-term development of domestic carrier fighter aircraft takes place. Also writer of the article doesn't come across as too knowledgeable - so J-15 weights 17.5 tons compared to 14.5 tons of Super Hornet. So what? It's a different aircraft. F-14D weighted almost 20 tons.

 

That they have some kind of operational fighter aircraft at all is impressive, if anything. Look at how well Naval LCA has gone over. And Indians have decades of experience operating carriers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...