More Chieftain's Hatchiness

[nitflegal]

Maybe I've been lucky but everyone so far has been interested enough in the answers, especially on the Sherman survivability, that they're willing to listen to statistics, wet stowage, and so forth.

[Panzermann]

After a few weeks as a docent at the American Heritage Museum I can say the most common questions are (in order) what's the log for on the T-34, what is the weird welding on the Panther (the zimmerit) and why do the Sherman tanks burst into flame when hit by a thrown rock and why didn't we fix that?

The first two are quite observant questions. They notice a to them weird feature and ask what it is for.

 

 

The Shermans that burst into flames like cars in Hollywood movies OTOH...

[rmgill]

The Shermans that burst into flames like cars in Hollywood movies OTOH...

 

[R011]

 

The Shermans that burst into flames like cars in Hollywood movies OTOH...

To be fair, that was a Ford Pinto.

[RETAC21]

 

 

 

or the Wiesel

 

I climbed into a Wiesel command vehicle two months ago.

I was quite comfortable.

 

We can probably blame that on the modern realisation that ergonomics is important. Hm, I wonder if there are AFV of the same-ish era that are too cramped for crew efficiency.

 

 

We managed to see through the rear doors of a BMP at one of the Czech Bahna events, and the interior for the riflemen seemed very, very tight.

 

 

Not for Communist new men, who don't have an ounce of fat in their bodies.

[sunday]

 

We managed to see through the rear doors of a BMP at one of the Czech Bahna events, and the interior for the riflemen seemed very, very tight.

Not for Communist new men, who don't have an ounce of fat in their bodies.

 

 

Nor a centimeter of height to spare!

Edited November 9, 2018 by sunday

[shep854]

Watching video from Syria, even the small Mid-Easterners had trouble getting in and out. Being seated at the front of the troop compartment and furthest from those tiny hatches had to be an ongoing significant emotional experience.

[shep854]

[DogDodger]

Having only visual comparisons to go on, I agree that the BMP's troop compartment and rear doors look pretty unpleasant compared to other vehicles. Here's a little comparison: top row is BMP-1, FV432, M113; bottom row is Panhard M3 VTT, Marder 1A3, M2A1 Bradley.

 

[Markus Becker]

Compare the hight of the seats. In a BMP you almost got your knees under your chin. It's been a while since I rode in one but I think you can raise them to a normal level but then you have your head stick out the top. The Marder has normal seating even with hatches closed.

[bojan]

Someone (Ken E. iirc) wrote that BMP-1 actually passed all US Army ergonomic requirements.

[Markus Becker]

One more thing. Notice the bulges on the inside of the BMP doors? Aux fuel tanks.

[rmgill]

Do the BMP doors have a power assist? On the M113 there's at least a smaller single man door.

[shep854]

Do the BMP doors have a power assist? On the M113 there's at least a smaller single man door.

Looking closely at the BMP photo in DogDodger's post, I can't see anything that looks like power assist. The Bradley has a personnel hatch as well.

[wlewisiii]

For all it's other flaws, getting in (or out of and into action) a 113 was not one of them. Drop that ramp and move. The A3 remains a decent taxi.

[Interlinked]

Do the BMP doors have a power assist? On the M113 there's at least a smaller single man door.

 

No power assist and it is not needed, AFAIK. The rear of the hull is slanted at 19 degrees, so when you open the door it practically falls open on its own.

[DougRichards]

For all it's other flaws, getting in (or out of and into action) a 113 was not one of them. Drop that ramp and move. The A3 remains a decent taxi.

 

An ex- RAEME told me of a time that they were using an M113 to tow a disabled M113 back to base. The towing M113 having troops in the back. At one stage the commander looks around and sees that the vehicle being towed is no longer there, and then looks back inside to see the ramp missing.... He asked the infantry what had happened and was told that the ramp had come loose and fallen off a few miles back.......

[shep854]

Not Hatchy, but Chieftain; obviously enjoying bantering with his co-host :

EDIT: 'Front Slope Wear Gauge'

Edited November 10, 2018 by shep854

[Panzermann]

Now I know where those wear plates are mounted, sport!

 

 

For the AVDS-1790 details and history Walter should have come for a cameo.

[shep854]

Nice camera work around back; nothing flat there... 😉

[sunday]

Most dangerous video Nick has done.

[shep854]

Most dangerous video Nick has done.

😂

[Burncycle360]

[Ken Estes]

Someone (Ken E. iirc) wrote that BMP-1 actually passed all US Army ergonomic requirements.

Except the gunner, who was a tank crewman by specialty, and presumably was still conscripted and assigned under a maximum height restriction. The source was an army major at the Aberdeen Proving Ground branch of the Foreign Science and Technology Center.

[Stargrunt6]

Compare the hight of the seats. In a BMP you almost got your knees under your chin. It's been a while since I rode in one but I think you can raise them to a normal level but then you have your head stick out the top. The Marder has normal seating even with hatches closed.

With that sort of posture, that would make it even tougher to dismount quickly, especially loaded with gear and holding a weapon. You're nearly doing a deep squat with resistance.