More Chieftain's Hatchiness

[Coldsteel]

Crusader part 2 is out, the Chieftain is somewhat less than impressed with certain aspects of the interior :

 

Looks like the gunner is supposed to have a seat, or at least one is visible in the stowage sketches. Also a firewall, although photos show access doors suggesting it can be closed off but with a large curved opening, missing a plug? Given the presence of a 75mm breech ring and the sparsely populated interior, that vehicle is certainly an outlier, even for a museum tank.

 

I always thought that those two rectangles in the turret sides were just shuttered openings/pistol ports, but they're not, there's some kind of vision device fitted there. And Nick didn't tell us what they were!

[Markus Becker]

Crusader part 2 is out, the Chieftain is somewhat less than impressed with certain aspects of the interior :

 

 

In the sense of fairness they upgunned the tank beyond for what it was designed for.

[whelm]

Defiantly a Ram 1 model, you have the doors and mg turret.

 

Both features found on the Ram II as well until they were deleted. Doors first Cupola later.

[rmgill]

I always thought that those two rectangles in the turret sides were just shuttered openings/pistol ports, but they're not, there's some kind of vision device fitted there. And Nick didn't tell us what they were!

The vision device is most likely and anti-splinter screen (essentially a thick, laminated glass block) so the crew can look out and not lose their eyes to bullet splash. The lever likely controls the opening of the cover. It looks very derivative of what was on my Dingo and what is on the driver's area of the Humber and Daimler Armored Cars.

Edited August 17, 2018 by rmgill

[DogDodger]

This one. Museum research noted it is M3A1, served with British in both Africa and Italy before being transferred to British equipped Yugoslav 1st Armored Brigade in 1944. It is missing a lot of small parts, but all major parts were inside, so I think it did not have turret basket originally. Is it possible that Brits removed it?

If their research indicates it's an M3A1 then it must be, but as I understand it the presence of a turret basket and power traverse is part of the defining differences between a Stuart Hybrid and an M3A1. Sounds like an interesting vehicle.

 

Given the position of the driver and co-driver directly under the turret in the M3, I can't see how you could have a basket. What am I missing?

The turret basket showed up in the M3A1. Note the power traverse hardware under the turret seats; as mentioned earlier, on the M5 the power traverse was moved to under the turret floor since the propeller shaft was so much lower in the M5.

[shep854]

Thanks, DogDodger. Looking at that schematic, I'm still having trouble understanding how the driver and co- kept out of the way of the turret. They obviously did, though. Hopefully, Nick will do a series of videos on the M3 Light.

[DogDodger]

There certainly wasn't much room:

 

(The turret seats and traversing mechanisms seem to be missing on this tank.)

 

(A more complete example.)

Edited August 18, 2018 by DogDodger

[shep854]

Thanks again! Those really help!

[DougRichards]

 

Crusader part 2 is out, the Chieftain is somewhat less than impressed with certain aspects of the interior :

 

 

In the sense of fairness they upgunned the tank beyond for what it was designed for.

 

 

So true, so a comparison with and between a 2pdr and 6pdr / 75mm Valentine would be interesting.

 

Also it should be remembered that a turret based on the Crusader's was used on the Staghound MkIII that had either the 6pdr or the 75mm based on the 6pdr. The turrets were not identical, and perhaps parts from a Staghound were used to complete the Crusader that Nick has reviewed,

[bojan]

If their research indicates it's an M3A1 then it must be, but as I understand it the presence of a turret basket and power traverse is part of the defining differences between a Stuart Hybrid and an M3A1. Sounds like an interesting vehicle.

 

Note however that M3A1s were salvaged from a vehicle dumps in Italy (as were some other vehicles, M8 and M7 HMCs*), and it is possible that it was missing turret basket before being transferred to Yugoslavia.

*Unlike M3A1/A3 that were ex-British, M8 and M7 were ex-US. There is even a pic of one that kept US registration number:

Edited August 18, 2018 by bojan

[Tim the Tank Nut]

Is that the M3A1 that used to be at the Patton Museum?

They had one with a Guiberson diesel and one that was gas.

I don't think I realized that all the M3A1 had a basket. None of the straight M3 did, right?

[Markus Becker]

Quack, quack:

 

https://youtu.be/0t8Fk7Fszwc

[DogDodger]

Note however that M3A1s were salvaged from a vehicle dumps in Italy (as were some other vehicles, M8 and M7 HMCs*), and it is possible that it was missing turret basket before being transferred to Yugoslavia.

Ah, that could be it. Who knows what happened before or in the dump?

 

Is that the M3A1 that used to be at the Patton Museum?

They had one with a Guiberson diesel and one that was gas.

I don't think I realized that all the M3A1 had a basket. None of the straight M3 did, right?

Correct. The top picture was at the Patton Museum, and the bottom one is of the M3A1 of the Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles/Americans in Wartime Museum. The British had noted that a so-called "integrated fighting compartment" was desirable, and when power traverse was being looked at for the M3 the turret basket was deemed essential.

[shep854]

Quack, quack:

Drat. Beat me to it.

[Panzermann]

 

Quack, quack:

https://youtu.be/0t8Fk7Fszwc

Drat. Beat me to it.

 

 

Nick flips between calling sailors "them" and then again calling out armymen as not knowing naval terms (propeller <-> screw, port- starboardside etc. e.g.).

 

 

although direct DUKW replacements failed there is the various LARC models.

[shep854]

I suppose the the LCAC could be called a descendant if sorts.

[Panzermann]

I suppose the the LCAC could be called a descendant if sorts.

 

serves kind of a similar purpose, but is too expensive to be deployed as wide. Isn't half the LCAC fleet in storage?

 

Such a simple cheap amphib serves most purposes and is small enough to be used on rivers and lakes. But that is icky brown water.

 

 

---

 

one of the ones that did not float as manic mentioned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n75Swgc3x8E

[shep854]

 

I suppose the the LCAC could be called a descendant if sorts.

 

serves kind of a similar purpose, but is too expensive to be deployed as wide. Isn't half the LCAC fleet in storage?

 

Such a simple cheap amphib serves most purposes and is small enough to be used on rivers and lakes. But that is icky brown water.

 

 

---

 

one of the ones that did not float as manic mentioned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n75Swgc3x8E

 

Unheralded, LARC-Vs are still in use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LARC-V

Edited August 20, 2018 by shep854

[shep854]

There was also the LARC-LX (originally BARC), finally retired in 2001: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LARC-LX

A testimony of its capacity; it was rated for 100 tons:

Edited August 20, 2018 by shep854

[Markus Becker]

RIA strikes again.

 

https://youtu.be/w08rtY5dz7M

 

They got Ian to advertise their small arms and occasionall infantry gun and Nick for the vehicles. I wonder if they also auction planes.

[Panzermann]

RIA strikes again.

 

https://youtu.be/w08rtY5dz7M

 

They got Ian to advertise their small arms and occasionall infantry gun and Nick for the vehicles. I wonder if they also auction planes.

 

Was this example in British service? The license plate looks like a UK one. OTOH the markings look US Army, but those are not necessarily original. Maybe from a Brtiish collector?

 

 

 

They have also a M151 MUTT with mine sweeping equipment and a CJ5 Jeep from Israel with 106mm RR. And a Bofors m/38 AT gun. And various other interesting stuff. I am a sucker for colour case hardening:

 

https://www.rockislandauction.com/flipbooks/74-MAILER/index.html(needs flash)

[shep854]

RIA strikes again.

 

https://youtu.be/w08rtY5dz7M

 

They got Ian to advertise their small arms and occasionall infantry gun and Nick for the vehicles. I wonder if they also auction planes.

I imagine young, energetic drivers just climbed over the side, rather than twist around the MG rail

[shep854]

The lad's on a roll...That tiny smile as he mentioned buying the thing seems to eloquently give his opinion of the beast:

[DKTanker]

The much maligned Gama Goat, I think if it had been about 50 db quieter it would have been found to be cute if not a bit quirky. I'm sure there is a very good reason why a 3 cylinder two stroker diesel was the motor of choice, but I can't help wondering if maybe a four cylinder 4 stroker diesel with a muffler would have been a better answer. Moreover, while it did put out 100 bhp, the damn thing sounded like it was always struggling to move.

Edited August 25, 2018 by DKTanker

[shep854]

Edited September 3, 2018 by shep854