More Chieftain's Hatchiness

[shep854]

I didn't know the Marines operated M5s. With Nick for scale, the Stuart is much bigger than the Crusader.

[Manic Moran]

Also the oil filters...wait..

 

Manic, are you sure the pointer on the lube chart wasn't specifying the change of the oil in the air filter oil bath? Because I think that IS every 500 miles for Vandal. That's like 1/8th a quart on our vehicle. Probably more on a tank but not more than a quart.

 

Without climbing back into the thing, I won't swear on my grandmother's grave on the matter, no.

[TonyE]

The Chieftain enjoys the interior of the M5A1 :

 

(Bonus for the hardcore fans near the end btw)

Edited August 15, 2018 by TonyE

[DogDodger]

To this day the only tank I've ever ridden in is the M5A1, thanks to our own Tim the Tank Nut back at the 2002 I&I at Ft. Knox (16 years ago! Crazy!). I was in the TC's seat and Sargent was in the gunner's spot for about 10 yards when the machine conked out due, as Tim researched later, to a sticking fuel check valve. He's such a nice guy that he then got out his M114 so we could ride in that instead! The Stuart turret certainly was cramped!

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by DogDodger

[Harold Jones]

I believe it was Geoff who said that the M5 was the perfect Starter Tank for the beginning collector.

[rmgill]

When I first got into MV's in 2003, one of the fellows I knew on Steel Soldiers bought a Stuart that had been "messed with". Among other things it had a 25 pounder barrel welded over the main gun barrel. He paid around $80,000 for it. He spent a few years getting it right and sold it for $230,000 or so a few years later.

[bojan]

... The Stuart turret certainly was cramped!

 

Early models w/o turret basket are way better. I crawled through Belgrade Museum M3A1 and M3A3, difference is huge in the turret since this M3A1 did not have turret basket.

[shep854]

Back in '04, I got to play gunner in Tim's lead M5 at the Ft Knox Memorial Day re-enactment. At a fairly husky 6'1", I didn't find the gunner's seat too cramped, but the hatch was opened, so I suppose I was able to stretch a bit.

Looking at M3 schematics, showing the driver and BOG under the turret ring, therefore in the fighting compartment, I have to wonder how everyone got along as the turret traversed. It seems that the turret crew would have been stumbling all over the driving crew.

[whelm]

I wonder if this was even feasible for the deck size on the M3/M5

As that looks like a stuart hull with a M3 medium? turret on top + cupola.

Edited August 16, 2018 by whelm

[Tim the Tank Nut]

we are all getting very old... (in my case fat and gray, too)

[Coldsteel]

I wonder if this was even feasible for the deck size on the M3/M5

As that looks like a stuart hull with a M3 medium? turret on top + cupola.

 

Could be, though that shaping, the cylinder with an angled front, is reasonably common for a US turret.

[Adam_S]

The Chieftain enjoys the interior of the M5A1 :

 

 

(Bonus for the hardcore fans near the end btw)

 

So would it fair to say that they've improved the design of the driver's hatch over the M3?

[Tim the Tank Nut]

yes, very much so. The M3 was hard for me to manage when I was 25 years old and wore 31" waist jeans.

You have to be tiny and flexible to enter and exit an M3 quickly

 

I would have liked to have seen the "tank on fire" exit if the turret was over the driver's hatch... Crawl up through the basket or over the transfer case to the escape hatch

[shep854]

Here's Nick trying to bail out of an M3 driver's position:

[Rich]

I wonder if this was even feasible for the deck size on the M3/M5

As that looks like a stuart hull with a M3 medium? turret on top + cupola.

 

More stuff from Canadian files? Again, fascinating. The one looks to be a Ram I. Of course the turret of the Lee/Grant would fit on the M3/M5, perhaps at one point they were discussing a common turret for both? Given that the Medium M3 was only ever intended as an interim medium with separate sourcing for the cast turrets they may have just decided it was an eventual dead end.

[DogDodger]

Early models w/o turret basket are way better. I crawled through Belgrade Museum M3A1 and M3A3, difference is huge in the turret since this M3A1 did not have turret basket.

Was it a Stuart Hybrid, or was the turret basket just missing from that example? The M3A3 you were in would be even worse than an M5A1 since the M3A1/A3's turret traverse mechanism was under the crew seats rather than under the turret floor like in the M5/A1 with its lower propeller shaft.

[bojan]

Wasn't there a plan to recycle M3 Medium turrets for an armored car?

[bojan]

Was it a Stuart Hybrid, or was the turret basket just missing from that example? The M3A3 you were in would be even worse than an M5A1 since the M3A1/A3's turret traverse mechanism was under the crew seats rather than under the turret floor like in the M5/A1 with its lower propeller shaft.

 

This one. Museum research noted it is M3A1, served with British in both Africa and Italy before being transferred to British equipped Yugoslav 1st Armored Brigade in 1944. It is missing a lot of small parts, but all major parts were inside, so I think it did not have turret basket originally. Is it possible that Brits removed it?

Edited August 17, 2018 by bojan

[whelm]

 

I wonder if this was even feasible for the deck size on the M3/M5

As that looks like a stuart hull with a M3 medium? turret on top + cupola.

 

More stuff from Canadian files? Again, fascinating. The one looks to be a Ram I. Of course the turret of the Lee/Grant would fit on the M3/M5, perhaps at one point they were discussing a common turret for both? Given that the Medium M3 was only ever intended as an interim medium with separate sourcing for the cast turrets they may have just decided it was an eventual dead end.

 

Hard to say if it's a ram I or II with out seeing the front. They have the mud scrapers on that model as well for the suspension.

 

Lee turret ring was 54 inches or 60 inches (seems to vary by source, may be down to inside of ring and outside being listed) so quite a bit bigger then the M3/M5's. but that doesn't mean a larger ring couldn't be fitted to the deck, or an adapter for the turret to fit a smaller ring.

Edited August 17, 2018 by whelm

[Panzermann]

Maybe they just threw something toether from what they had in the model shop for the presentation.

[shep854]

 

Early models w/o turret basket are way better. I crawled through Belgrade Museum M3A1 and M3A3, difference is huge in the turret since this M3A1 did not have turret basket.

Was it a Stuart Hybrid, or was the turret basket just missing from that example? The M3A3 you were in would be even worse than an M5A1 since the M3A1/A3's turret traverse mechanism was under the crew seats rather than under the turret floor like in the M5/A1 with its lower propeller shaft.

 

Given the position of the driver and co-driver directly under the turret in the M3, I can't see how you could have a basket. What am I missing?

[Tim the Tank Nut]

I can't recall any M3 with a basket...

[Rich]

Hard to say if it's a ram I or II with out seeing the front. They have the mud scrapers on that model as well for the suspension.

 

Lee turret ring was 54 inches or 60 inches (seems to vary by source, may be down to inside of ring and outside being listed) so quite a bit bigger then the M3/M5's. but that doesn't mean a larger ring couldn't be fitted to the deck, or an adapter for the turret to fit a smaller ring.

 

 

Urg, yeah, logic never works well when dealing with Ordnance. Hunnicutt of course stated 54.5" "inside" for all Medium Tank M3 versions, I would tend to accept that just on general principles. M2A4 M3-series, and M5-series he says were all 46.75".

[rmgill]

And the Armored car model on the right is a Guy 'Wheeled Light tank' turret with the later Mk II, III and IV Humber AC hull.

[Colin]

Defiantly a Ram 1 model, you have the doors and mg turret.