Free Speech In The Uk

[rmgill]

For those who care:

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Quite right too. For leading an innocent Pug astray, transportation is too good for him.

[Panzermann]

Quite right too. For leading an innocent Pug astray, transportation is too good for him.

 

As Meechum is scottish, does that mean he is going to be transported to Scottish Panama? Nova Scotia? New Caledonia?

 

 

 

but on a more serious note, his lawyer they tried to smear in the rejection letter?

[DB]

An English barrister comments on the original Meechan judgement.

 

http://barristerblogger.com/2018/03/24/its-time-to-change-the-bad-law-used-to-prosecute-count-dankula/?fdx_switcher=true

 

It's interesting that English (and Welsh) guidance on the application of substantively the same law would likely have led to no conviction. It's also interesting that protections present in other laws have been omitted in this one, supporting this barrister's opinion that the law sucks.

[Panzermann]

The DOG accused of a hate crime after fouling outside a home in just one of 2,500 cases probed over two years

• Police notes said, dog fouled and 'victim perceived this to be a racial incident'
• Tory MP David Davies said people must think 'more carefully' before calling 999
• Another hate incident involved 'suspect's dog barking at victim'
• Other examples included, disputed call in a tennis match and dead rat in garden

By Jake Hurfurt For The Mail On Sunday

 

Published: 23:48 GMT, 17 November 2018 | Updated: 07:46 GMT, 19 November 2018

 

We all know it’s irritating, unsightly and unhygienic, but one case of dog fouling has been logged by police as a racist hate crime.

 

The incident is among numerous alleged hate crimes uncovered by The Mail on Sunday that critics say are so petty they are undeserving of police time and expense.

 

Further examples in a list of more than 2,500 alleged ‘hate incidents’ logged by the Metropolitan Police in 2015 and 2016 include:

• An envelope that had been opened and resealed;
• An accident involving a car that bore a Remembrance poppy;
• A disputed line call in a tennis match;
• A dead rat found in a garden;
• And a man telling library staff he was campaigning for Brexit.

Last night, David Davies, Tory MP and former special constable, said the recording of such ‘non-crimes’ was a waste of police time.

 

‘This is part of the reason that police struggle to investigate serious offences such as home burglaries,’ he said. ‘People need to start thinking more carefully before they call the police.’

 

The 2,507 hate incidents are revealed in a 118-page document disclosed under Freedom of Information laws.

 

A description of the dog fouling incident reads: ‘An unknown dog has fouled outside of victim address and victim perceived this to be a racial incident.’

(...)

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6401779/The-DOG-accused-hate-crime-fouling-outside-home-just-one-2-500-cases-probed.html

[rmgill]

Sargon delves into the government dictated morality.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I see you, and raise you.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[rmgill]

How utterly facile. The Tump administration has been rolling BACK federal controls and authority. The left has been SCREAMING about that.

Which civil liberties is he quashing? The ones that involve the freedom to illegally immigrate to the US?

Worst Dictator EVER.

Meanwhile we have the Tech Giants like Google and Facebook implementing their own vision of INGSOC and Bigbrother and promulgating policy papers on the subject of censorship. And seriously Stuart, you really ought to stick to flaking for your own nation's speech controllers and thought police.

Edited November 21, 2018 by rmgill

[Stuart Galbraith]

I do find it ironic how many people seem to channel 1984, but very few of them seem to get what the hell its about. The bit about lacking the freedom to even think of alternatives would focus minds I would have thought. But perhaps not. Instead, it gets channeled as a 'leftists are bad' meme, without grasping the point Orwell was surely pointing at, all political systems can morph into Totalitarianism, if they are popular enough.

 

As for Sargon, I managed about 10 seconds this time before the videodrome waves started melting my brain. I must be improving.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Mike Steele]

How utterly facile. The Tump administration has been rolling BACK federal controls and authority. The left has been SCREAMING about that.

 

Which civil liberties is he quashing? The ones that involve the freedom to illegally immigrate to the US?

 

Worst Dictator EVER.

 

Meanwhile we have the Tech Giants like Google and Facebook implementing their own vision of INGSOC and Bigbrother and promulgating policy papers on the subject of censorship. And seriously Stuart, you really ought to stick to flaking for your own nation's speech controllers and thought police.

So True.

[rmgill]

I do find it ironic how many people seem to channel 1984, but very few of them seem to get what the hell its about. The bit about lacking the freedom to even think of alternatives would focus minds I would have thought. But perhaps not. Instead, it gets channeled as a 'leftists are bad' meme, without grasping the point Orwell was surely pointing at, all political systems can morph into Totalitarianism, if they are popular enough.

And if you'd bother to look at it, you'd see that he even points to Fascist Italy and it's totalitarian bent as part of the object lesson. One of the points that Sargon raised that I've seen before is the issue of the girl charged with violation of law over rap lyrics that are still performed by people in the UK and still released. The issue was, in part, that the UK is increasingly dictating morality to the people by the state. That push has taken many forms including that array of advertisements talking about how hate in Scotland was going to be something to report to the police.

 

Whether it's conservatives OR liberals pushing it Stuart, it's bad and wrong. It bodes VERY ill for the long term stability of the UK. IF I were you, I'd spend more time listening to what people say instead of fixating on how you dislike the accent or the delivery of the words.

 

As for Sargon, I managed about 10 seconds this time before the videodrome waves started melting my brain. I must be improving.

Unless it's BBC monotone spoon fed to you I guess you can't handle it?

[Panzermann]

 

 

 

 

 

ending fascism single-handedly

Edited December 30, 2018 by Panzermann

[Jeff]

A six month police investigation for using the wrong pronoun?

 

Surrey Police investigation over 'misgendering' tweets

 

A journalist claims she is being investigated by police for using the wrong pronoun for a transgender woman.

 

Caroline Farrow said Surrey Police wants to "conduct a taped interview under caution" because of tweets posted in October.

 

They were made after she was on ITV's Good Morning Britain with Susie Green, whose daughter Jackie is transgender.

 

Ms Green said the posts were malicious and it was "not just the misgendering" issue.

 

Ms Green, the founder of the transgender rights charity Mermaids, said she had now withdrawn her complaint to the police.

 

But Surrey Police said a withdrawal statement must be made for a complaint to be dropped and that had not yet happened in this case.

 

The force said it had received an allegation on 15 October "in relation to a number of tweets which were posted in October 2018".

 

"A thorough investigation is being carried out to establish whether any criminal offences have taken place," it said.

 

"A 44-year-old woman has been asked to attend a voluntary interview in relation to the allegation as part of our ongoing investigation."

 

'So furious'

In the ITV interview, the Catholic journalist and commentator had been discussing with Ms Green the Girl Guides letting children who have changed gender join.

 

Ms Farrow tweeted the police's decision to launch an investigation was an "outrage", adding: "I can't sleep I am so furious."

 

She said: "I don't even remember said tweets. I probably said 'he' or 'son' or something.

 

"All I have been told is that following an appearance on Good Morning Britain I made some tweets misgendering Susie Green's child and that I need to attend a taped interview."

 

She added it was her "religious belief that a person cannot change sex" and she would "happily do jail time" for her right to express that view.

 

But she added she tried "really hard not to misgender people".

 

'Really damaging'

Speaking to the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme, Ms Green said: "Every day my daughter is misgendered online... this was a journalist who had a public platform who used that to send very deliberately malicious nasty messages.

 

"It's not just the misgendering, it's actually the context that she puts it in to, and that she calls me a child abuser."

 

She added that complaining to the police was the "appropriate course of action" given the "really damaging things she said about me and my actions".

 

Ms Green said she had withdrawn her complaint partly because she did not want Ms Farrow to continue to have a platform.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-47638527

 

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Im pretty sure we have already touched on this in the other thread.

[Panzermann]

just came across this speech by Rowan Atkinson

 

 

from 2012(sic)

[Tim the Tank Nut]

Wow!

Go Rowan!

 

I am afraid that his point of view will upset Stuart, though

[Stuart Galbraith]

Oh Tim, please stop subscribing me to postions without actually asking my opinion. Im perfectly forthright, you dont need to offer them for me you know.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

without getting into a lot of specifics I've had the experience of reading your posts here on TankNet for many years. We've both been here a long time.

In aggregate your positions are not in line with Mr Atkinson. I'm not subscribing positions to you, I am aware of the posts that you have made over the years and especially the the last few.

You tend towards censorship. There's no denying it. It is a fact.

The chief difference is that I accept your beliefs on the subject whilst disagreeing with them. I have the added positive of being very consistent in my position. I tend to stay away from the duels between you and Ryan but I do read them. I just don't post there very much.

 

I'm not saying anything about anything other than Mr Atkinson's position and your overall position are very far apart. I was very impressed with Mr Atkinson's speech and thought it a model of clarity on the subject. I was surprised that it was a 7 year old speech, it sounded like last week, very current.

 

If you feel like Mr Atkinson is accurate in his summation then you'll need to review some of your earlier work.

[rmgill]

Stuart doesn't disagree with Rowan, he disputes that any censorship is even happening.

'There is no censorship. If there was, it be ok because we censored people talking about convoy sailings during an existential total war situation that we're not in now. But there is no censorship.'

That's a perfectly clear summation of your views as I've been able to glean just from your latest post and relatively recent examples on the subject Stuart.

Edited May 16, 2019 by rmgill

[rmgill]

Stuart, I'd really like to see you go down and talk face to face to Sargon. Hopefully you'd do a better job of it than this posh kid.

[Paul G.]

At its root a government is just a body with the power to make decisions for the whole population. How they come to that power is determined by their authority to govern. In a Democracy it is granted by the people. In a dictatorship it is held by force. In a monarchy it is granted by God.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Paul G.

[bojan]

Oh Tim, please stop subscribing me to postions without actually asking my opinion...

What goes around comes around

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Oh Tim, please stop subscribing me to postions without actually asking my opinion...

What goes around comes around

 

 

Contribute to the thread Bojan, or dont, the choice is yours. Personally I dont expect the sneering from yourself. Its a poor fit.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

Stuart, I'd really like to see you go down and talk face to face to Sargon. Hopefully you'd do a better job of it than this posh kid.

 

 

 

 

And its a fair point, Id be happy to talk to him if I ever bump into him. The problem is in person im shy and tounge tied. Its only over a keyboard I actually achieve any kind of loquacity.

 

I really ought to go to an I and I, I know there is no way you are going to believe that.