Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

If anything we are downplaying it. Rather than it being a distraction from Brexit, the Government is clearly so distracted by Brexit, its putting it on the back burner till later.

 

Again, I do not think it was initially planned by UK Government (as it is clearly too chaotic for planed event). As for me, it may be attempt to use incident that happened during attempt to smuggle something into Russia, for political purpose – converting coverup operation into false flag operation.

 

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

It clearly was no smuggling operation. It was a targeted assasination handled with the usual lack of care and moderation by the Russian security services. One cant say they dont have form. They showed exactly the same lack of care and competence in 2006.

 

If Sergei Srkipal was a master smuggler, he would be living in a far nicer house than a 1970's house on a housing estate in Salisbury. If Rowley was involved in it, he would be in a far nicer house and car than he posesses.

 

So much for Theory 33.

[Roman Alymov]

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

It clearly was no smuggling operation. It was a targeted assasination handled with the usual lack of care and moderation by the Russian security services. One cant say they dont have form. They showed exactly the same lack of care and competence in 2006.

 

If Sergei Srkipal was a master smuggler, he would be living in a far nicer house than a 1970's house on a housing estate in Salisbury. If Rowley was involved in it, he would be in a far nicer house and car than he posesses.

 

So much for Theory 33.

 

To save time, let me direct you to my post dating March 20, 2018, 70 pages back http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43141&p=1358881Interesting my prediction of UK officials searching the plane (“ Now they are checking the car that obviously give them nothing – what they will check next? Airport luggage belt? Airplane?”) was correct: it happened 10 days later https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/692750/russian-plane-inspected-british-police-london-airport-refuse-leave-news My prediction of “police are still pursuing the possibility that Yulia unwittingly brought the nerve agent used against her and her father into Britain with her when she arrived from Moscow” being deliberate disinformation - was correct. And so on. So as you see in some cases I can predict the future

Back to “Theory #33” – as we see, it is not Russian side who is mounting versions (even if you call them “media speculations” when they busted). My theory from March 20 (see spoiler)

 

So what we have now is Skripal –daughter arriving from Moscow to London where she is met by somebody on pick-up truck (so it was not her father, or at least not her father’s car), spend about a day without any serious health problems, drive around with her father in his car next day, go to restraint, then to another restraint - in short, were behaving very lively for walking dead. And then something happened and they are unconscious on the bench, more over – policemen who contacted them is also claimed to be immediately affected. How can it be?

My version for you to play with: There was no agent with Yulia. Her father avoided going to airport (where he may be seen by other Russians arriving with this flight) but sent somebody - not to compromise his daughter (interesting behavior for men officially pardoned and already out of his original jail term). She and her father spent the next day together, and somewhere in process they were approached by somebody (for example, his father’s friend, another exiled Russian) who asked Yulia for small favor – take some kind of small gift or parcel to his friends or relatives back in Russia (“medicine for his child whom he\she himself is not able to visit as he is exiled by oppressive Putin’s regime, just like your father”). Then something went wrong – parcel leaked for some reason, releasing tiny amount of agent – enough to seriously harm Skripals and policemen (who may have picked up dropped parcel and put it in some kind of evidence bag or just pocket – note no information about ambulance team suffered serious damage – while they have to be in more close and prolonged contact with victims) but not enough to kill them on the place. Somebody have reacted to the situation very quickly (and it is strange for the case of two collapsed foreigners on the bench), parcel was removed, and that is it –all traces are gone. Organizing all this theater with cities cordoned and cars searched is not difficult – but it is just cover up operation.

Please show me how this version contradicts known facts (if there are any facts, not claims).

 

 

is IMHO quite simple and providing explanation of some of strange things in this case:

1)Why it all happened during Yulia Skripal’s visit (while for “Russian assassination” theory she was unwanted obstacle, without her visit Skripal-father would be found dead in his bed or at his WoT computer table, quite natural for man of his age).

2)Why Sergey Skripal, retired man on state pension, failed to meet his only daughter at the airport with his old but still luxury BMW, sending his British friend with modest pickup truck instead.

3)Why their phones were switched off for four hours (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/skripal-turned-off-phone-gps-during-missing-four-hours-xsnb07qbs “ The Russian spy and his daughter poisoned by nerve agent turned off the GPS tracking on their mobile telephones for four hours on the day they were attacked, it was reported yesterday” ) prior to incident – the fact published 6 days after my version was proposed.

4)Why they collapsed simultaneously and immediately despite all differences of age, weight, health and exposure/

5)Why British reaction was so chaotic and so many versions mounted, culminating in surprise find (or claim of find) on door handle weeks later after numerous people touching it and walking away with it.

 

Sergei Skripal was a master smuggler? Obviously not - otherwise it will be no need for him to play this spy games with phones switched off, he could just give the parcel to Yulia in safety of own house . Seems like they have met somebody (or picked up parcel somewhere) – and Sergey Skripal was aware of it prior to Yulia’s visit (when taking the decision not to meet her at airport, sending his friend instead). Was he aware of what is inside the parcel? Seems like not (otherwise they would handle it with greater care). So we have somebody arranging with retired British agent living under MI6 (or MI5?) protection use of him and his daughter in some kind of clandestine operation. Wonder who it was, taking into account this personality is still uncovered despite of 5 month of all-out investigation, having two live witnesses and access to all CCTV etc?

[JWB]

1) Coincidence.

2) Not capable of driving that day? Drunk? Ill? Who knows.

3) GPS was turned off by a hacker.

4) What was the differences of exposure? Who got a larger dose?

Inside your hidden post:

"parcel was removed, and that is it - all traces gone." is no longer valid. Vial was found. Why would British hit man leave vial sitting in the area?

[Stuart Galbraith]

1 Perhaps the Russian hit team followed Yulia, just so they could be sure they knew exactly where he lived and they would not get the wrong target?

2 Perhaps he doesnt like driving on motorways? For someone whom spent most of his life driving on right hand lanes, I could imagine our back to front road system would take getting used to.

3 Im not sure we know the phones WERE turned off for4 hours. Or at least, ive yet to read an official MET statement to that effect. I mean yes, maybe it is true, or maybe it was invented by the British media again. I cant comment until the inqury is held.

4 Because they were contaminated at the same time, and got a similar dose? This seems to work through the skin, so im finding this less relevant than you, simply because I suspect human being's have a similar depth of skin on their hands.

5 Well gee, we got attacked by nerve agent for the first time in like 2000 years. How would Russia handle it were anyone so unwise as to try? The numerous versions are less surprising to those whom study the long history of terrorism in the UK. The first reports are never correct, and the media effect compounds it. Its what happens when you dont have a state directed media, not everyone thinks along the same lines.

 

 

And more whataboutism. I swear sooner or later ill be wise enough not to play these games. The facts such as we do know is that it was a chemical weapon of a type synthesized in Russia, and there seems to alternative evidence that has not been presented to Russia pointing to Russian culpability. Its of course perfectly natural for Russia to say this is unreasonable. Its perfectly reasonable for us to not present our sources because, well gee, we dont want to lose them.

 

Means, motive, opportunity. The Russian Government ticks all those boxes. The British Government only ticks one. On balance, to me, the likelihood of Russia being the guilty party is clear. But that wont do, so we have 32 different shades of grey of why Putin's Russia is completely innocent. It always is.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Mistral]

And people actually beleive the UK will go to war in defence of the Baltics when they will not even break diplomatic relations with the country that used biological weapons on its own soil to kill its citizens... Amazing really.

[Stuart Galbraith]

But that could go for all of NATO couldnt it?

 

As it happens, for the moment im all for keeping it in reserve. We have an inquiry. And if Russia does satisfy the judge as being culpable, the Government should respond by closing both our embassy's. The negative there is of course, nobody else will because they would rather appease a terrorist than facing up to him. No change there then.

[Roman Alymov]

1) Coincidence – IMHO not plausible. Visit from Russia to UK is not random event - it requires buying airplane tickets, arranging visa, getting through Russian border etc. And it happened the next day after Yulia arrived to her father’s house – so hypothetical “Russian assassins” were quite aware she is in even without receiving information from Russia.
2) Not capable of driving that day? Drunk? Ill? Who knows. – not plausible. Sending somebody else to the airport require prior planning and arrangement (if he suddenly fell ill or incidentally(?) abused alcohol It was logical to use taxi or just go with the same friend on passanger's seat of his pickup to meet his only family member alive). Seems like Skripal senior was doing his best to avoid showing up to the airport where streams of passengers from Russia could see him with his daughter.
3) GPS was turned off by a hacker. – so Russian assassins are so smart to turn off GPS in two smartphones (for what purpose - to leave extra traces for investigation?), but so stupid not to know Yulia is coming (see point 1)? Not plausible IMHO.
4) What was the differences of exposure? Who got a larger dose? - in what is now official version (if it is still official version, not labeled yet “media speculation”) contamination was through door handle, hours before couple collapsed on the same bench without calling for help, dialing emergency medical assistance number etc., after two meals etc). Too many coincidences in this case. My explanation requires way less loops to jump through.
Inside your hidden post:
"parcel was removed, and that is it - all traces gone." is no longer valid. Vial was found. Why would British hit man leave vial sitting in the area? – if you mean recent case, it is IMHO not related to Skripals. Pack of “perfumery” was found at least 3 month after the incident, it was still looking attractive enough to be seen as valid gift for the girlfriend (strange for some item after three month in trash bin), was factory wrapped and with dispenser not installed on the bottle. It was surely not “clear odorless gel” but oily liquid with strong smell. Sympthoms also no matching both Skripals ones and description of strong nerve agent exposure. It is surely not the bottle used on Skripals. Where it came from and why in timing so convenient to support fading interest for Skripals question is the question to ask.

[Roman Alymov]

1 Perhaps the Russian hit team followed Yulia, just so they could be sure they knew exactly where he lived and they would not get the wrong target?

 

1.I can hardly imagine “Russian team” following somebody to the house of a person living under MI6 protection through region full of CCTV, but even if we imagine it is real – what was the problem for them to wait another week until Yulia is back to Moscow, and then proceed with poisoning? No need even to do it by one team – Skripal’s house not going to leave, no hurry as the man spend 8 years in Russian jail.

2. Former paratrooper and GRU colonel, former MI6 agent, owner of red BMW but afraid of driving on motorways? Not plausible IMHO.

3. It is very convenient to dismiss even British press reports based on sources in British special services (who else could have access to GPS tracking data?) as media speculation as soon as they are becoming inconvenient, but rely on “social media evidence” in cases like MH17 or alleged chemical attacks in Syria (by the way as far as I heard Belingcat was recently found by WikiLeaks to be sponsored by UK MOD, surely adding to their “independence”)

4. Not working because of difference in age, gender, metabolism etc. I can’t imagine how it is possible to get such result even in controlled conditions, not mentioning street contact and hours of activity after.

5. If first reports newer correct, why your Government immediately rushed to blaming Russia?

By the way I still do not see in what way it was convenient to Russia (motive?), why “opportunity” was not used during years of Skripal-senior doing his prison term, and what are the “means” if it is still not known how the attack was done (if it was at all)?

[Briganza]

2 Perhaps he doesnt like driving on motorways? For someone whom spent most of his life driving on right hand lanes, I could imagine our back to front road system would take getting used to.

Well I can see why he would not want to travel down the M25, M3 and A303 or go the other way and use the M25, M4, A34 and A303. Even on good days it's horrible. One of the pleasures of moving up north is driving on motorways with only a couple of dozen vehicles in sight.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yes, ive travelled on all 3 of those and in places probably qualify as a WMD.

 

Of course there is also the train, except that is also its own unique form of torture these days as well.

[bojan]

And people actually beleive the UK will go to war in defence of the Baltics when they will not even break diplomatic relations with the country that used biological weapons on its own soil to kill its citizens... Amazing really.

I got shitstorm from Stuart and few other for saying just that back in 2014. in Ukraine topic.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well you were proven right if its any consolation.

 

Thing is, people didnt think we would go to war over a dirtbox like Iraq. They didnt think we would go to war over Malaya. They didnt think we would go to war over Korea, and they didnt think we would go to war over Poland. There is no telling what we suddenly care about.

[Roman Alymov]

Yes, ive travelled on all 3 of those and in places probably qualify as a WMD.

 

Of course there is also the train, except that is also its own unique form of torture these days as well.

Well, it is only adding to my argument: isn't it strange for retired person ( =having plenty of free time) with comfortable luxury car not to go to the airport to meet his only daughter, but ask his local friend to do it knowing this friend is working (=have limited time), own not so comfortable car and will go through torturous road with all above mentioned factors? Is this local man in fact his MI6 curator under cover?

[Adam Peter]

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

And what they won with it?

[Briganza]

 

Yes, ive travelled on all 3 of those and in places probably qualify as a WMD.

 

Of course there is also the train, except that is also its own unique form of torture these days as well.

Well, it is only adding to my argument: isn't it strange for retired person ( =having plenty of free time) with comfortable luxury car not to go to the airport to meet his only daughter, but ask his local friend to do it knowing this friend is working (=have limited time), own not so comfortable car and will go through torturous road with all above mentioned factors? Is this local man in fact his MI6 curator under cover?

 

The point we are making is that if you knew these road you too would rather have someone else do the driving. It is perfectly logical to have a local who was accustomed to driving on the left on very congested, sometime fast motorway to do the journey instead of you. I grew up outside Heathrow (Stanwell) and cycles around the airport (you can't do that now) in my teens. Latter my mate lived on the other side in West Drayton and I would regularly transit over to the north side. Now I would avoid it like the plague.

[Briganza]

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

And what they won with it?

 

Russia strong.

Russia can reach out a touch you if we like.

Fear, don't upset the Tsar.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

And what they won with it?

 

 

Adam, we have discussed that many times in this thread, so many I feel im going in circles.

 

Ultimately as ive said before, its not about what it looks like to us, its what it looks like to them. They reenacted Death to Spies, solidified the regime, unsettled those whom would try to undermine the regime, tweaked the nose of the west, and once again demonstrated Putins virility and omnipotence in all things. Its even given an opportunity to ridicule the West and portray it as engineering plots against them.

 

I grant you, to us it looks like small gains. To a regime that feels it its beset by enemies, these are not small gains to them.

[JWB]

What does her visit have to with anything?

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

And what they won with it?

 

Russia strong.

Russia can reach out a touch you if we like.

Fear, don't upset the Tsar.

 

I'm afraid this “Russia strong” only exist in British press. In fact Skripal was unknown figure in Russia for general public. He was only sentenced for 13 years in Russia in 2006, indicating his crime was not significant (actually he was due to leave jail in 2018 even without exchange deal). Imagine “Russian plot” going smoothly and Skripal found dead of unknown reasons – so what? He is not exactly young man, not exactly of healthy lifestyle – quite logical for him to die. Where us your “Russia can reach out a touch you if we like” messaage here? What “Fear, don't upset the Tsar” you mean? London is full of runaway Russian and numerous other, Chinese, Nigerian criminals, corrupt officials and terrorists your legal system you are so proud of is providing safe haven for (to the extent of Stuart complaining about property bubble http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43141&p=1379544). Prisons around the globe are waiting to get people now enjoying luxury of London. Each of them under your criteria of “upset” Tsar, Emperor etc. How could one case overweight thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of examples?

More over, there is no need to kill somebody to communicate idea of treason ending badly – history is full of examples of this people dying in their Western hideouts in miserable ways - starting from “freedom fighter” and first Soviet plane highjacker Pranas Brazinskas who was killed by own son in drunk fight (https://www.rbth.com/history/327524-3-airline-hijackings-russia ), to once “Master of Russia” Berezovsky who hanged himself in his London bath after running bankrupt and being denied of return to Russia by Putin. No need to kill them – only give them time to their nature turning on them, and some of them will deliver examples propaganda dream about, especially taking into account how numerous they are.

 

P.S. It is not only working for Russians. Probably you remember the story of Mathias Rust, German aviator known for his illegal landing near Red Square in Moscow in 1987 - but let's look at his later life: "While doing his obligatory community service (Zivildienst) in a West German hospital in 1989, Rust stabbed a female co-worker who had rejected him. The victim barely survived. He was convicted of attempted manslaughter and sentenced to two and a half years in prison, but was released after 15 months.[12] Since then he has lived a fragmented life, describing himself as a "bit of an oddball."[13] After being released from court, he converted to Hinduism in 1996 to become engaged to a daughter of an Indian tea merchant.[14] In 2001, he was convicted of stealing a cashmere pullover and ordered to pay a fine of DM 10,000, which was later reduced to DM 600.[5][12] A further brush with the law came in 2005, when he was convicted of fraud and had to pay €1,500 for stolen goods.[12] In 2009 Rust described himself as a professional poker player." Surely it was all FSB plot on him

Edited August 5, 2018 by Roman Alymov

[Stuart Galbraith]

Usual caveats about the British media apply, though it is the Guardian which has been usually fairly even handed on this story.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/06/uk-poised-to-ask-russia-to-extradite-salisbury-attack-suspects

 

The British government is poised to submit an extradition request to Moscow for two Russians suspected of carrying out the Salisbury nerve agent attack that left one person dead and three injured, according to Whitehall and security sources.

The move comes after months of painstaking investigation by hundreds of officers from the police and the intelligence agencies. They have pieced together the movements of the two Russians, from their entry into the UK through to their departure.

The Crown Prosecution Service, which prepared the extradition request, has completed the process and is ready to file, the sources said.

The request will reignite the simmering diplomatic row with Russia, which is certain to reject it, prompting another round of tit-for-tat diplomatic expulsions.

Relations between the UK and Russia sank to their lowest point since the end of the cold war after the nerve agent attack on Sergei Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence, and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury in March. They were found unconscious on a bench in a shopping centre after being exposed to novichok.

UK intelligence chiefs have specifically blamed Russia for the attack.

Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were subsequently treated for exposure to the nerve agent. Rowley recovered but Sturgess died.

The Kremlin has denied any responsibility and waged a furious campaign of counter-accusation. It has suggested the UK is holding the Skripals against their will and denying them Russian consular assistance.

 

 

As said at the end, the Litvinenko lawyer is calling for a public inquiry to be held. It may be the case that Russia would do well to extradite as long as questions are not asked about Government involvement, as done with the Pan Am 103 trial. If not, there will probably be a rather public inquiry at some point, and all the dirty linen will be air in public. Not that I think the Putin Regime is that smart, but its an option they could consider.

[Briganza]

Sky is following a similar line but does not think it is as advanced at the Guardian claims.

 

I believe that it is the Russian constitution that they can't extradite its citizens to another country so they are unlikely to hand them over. EAW would seem most likely adn wait till they step outside Russia like the French did with the football thugs.

 

The public inquiry will only happen once they accept that there is no chance of getting them as putting all the evidence out would taint a trial. The other option is a trial in absentia.

[Roman Alymov]

Usual caveats about the British media apply, though it is the Guardian which has been usually fairly even handed on this story.

 

 

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201808061067000089-uk-no-request-salisbury/

LONDON (Sputnik) - The reports that the United Kingdom is planning to ask Russia to extradite suspects in a Salisbury poisoning incident are nothing more than a "speculation," a spokesperson for the UK Foreign Office told Sputnik on Monday.

"This is just more speculation. The police investigation is ongoing and anything on the record will need to come from the Police," the spokesperson said.

The Russian Embassy in the United Kingdom, in its turn, also told Sputnik that it had received no such official requests.

"The embassy received no such official requests. Moreover, we have to say once again that there has been at least a hundred of such leaks with reference to unnamed sources since the Salisbury incident. We have no trust in false media reports," the embassy said.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Happily I can agree with Sputnik for once. I must be going soft in my old age.

 

 

Sky is following a similar line but does not think it is as advanced at the Guardian claims.

 

I believe that it is the Russian constitution that they can't extradite its citizens to another country so they are unlikely to hand them over. EAW would seem most likely adn wait till they step outside Russia like the French did with the football thugs.

 

The public inquiry will only happen once they accept that there is no chance of getting them as putting all the evidence out would taint a trial. The other option is a trial in absentia.

 

No, we wont get them back. The only real hope we have is the fall of the regime, and quite clearly Putin isnt going to last forever.

 

Trial in absentia would be an interesting option. Im not sure why we didnt do that with Litvinenko, Kovtun and Lugovoi's trail of guilt was as long as the polonium trail they left.

[Adam Peter]

 

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

And what they won with it?

 

Russia strong.

Russia can reach out a touch you if we like.

Fear, don't upset the Tsar.

 

 

 

 

 

Neither do I. I think it was planned by the Russian Government.

 

And what they won with it?

 

 

Adam, we have discussed that many times in this thread, so many I feel im going in circles.

 

Ultimately as ive said before, its not about what it looks like to us, its what it looks like to them. They reenacted Death to Spies, solidified the regime, unsettled those whom would try to undermine the regime, tweaked the nose of the west, and once again demonstrated Putins virility and omnipotence in all things. Its even given an opportunity to ridicule the West and portray it as engineering plots against them.

 

I grant you, to us it looks like small gains. To a regime that feels it its beset by enemies, these are not small gains to them.

 

 

By that time, Putin kicked Obama into curb over the red line, used a plane shoot-down incident to use the rift between the country with the second biggest NATO army and the country with the biggest NATO army. He gave the most powerful nation on Earth a president with questionable legitimacy, and what follows that. He made himself to a person the leaders of Iran and Israel go to before they act home. He made the United Kingdom leave the EU and stuck in limbo between the EU and the USA.

 

I don't think the eagle catches flies.

[Briganza]

Happily I can agree with Sputnik for once. I must be going soft in my old age.

 

 

Sky is following a similar line but does not think it is as advanced at the Guardian claims.

 

I believe that it is the Russian constitution that they can't extradite its citizens to another country so they are unlikely to hand them over. EAW would seem most likely adn wait till they step outside Russia like the French did with the football thugs.

 

The public inquiry will only happen once they accept that there is no chance of getting them as putting all the evidence out would taint a trial. The other option is a trial in absentia.

 

No, we wont get them back. The only real hope we have is the fall of the regime, and quite clearly Putin isnt going to last forever.

 

Trial in absentia would be an interesting option. Im not sure why we didnt do that with Litvinenko, Kovtun and Lugovoi's trail of guilt was as long as the polonium trail they left.

Or we just wait for the Dictator to move on. At some point he will retire or be retired. The question will then be will it be a peaceful transition or not. Will the bodies be given up as a olive branch to the West.

 

We have time, 10-15 there will be a new Tsar.