Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.

[Briganza]

Once again Sputnik displays its characteristic lack of concern for human lives, and starts to muckrake over the 'Speed' of Dawn Sturgess's cremation. I mean, its been 3 and a half weeks. What are they waiting for, the rapture?

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201808011066842218-russia-uk-embassy-amesbury-cremation/

 

Interestingly the Russian embassy didnt post anything about this on their Twitter feed. They seem more interested in Lavrov's 'Polycentric' world, whatever that is. Plastic in the water presumably.

Yet they have a link that said "Amesbury man confesses he gave perfume bottle with nerve agent to girlfriend as gift". But in the story of Dawns funeral they say "Sturgess was cremated on Monday after passing away in a hospital on July 8 as a reult of being exposed to an unknown substance."

My bold.

They like to use NA when deflecting but not when it may reflect on them but can't see the difference.

 

I like the confession bit as it indicates that Charlie had planned to murder Dawn (another Russian made up concept to deflect) and is now repentant and wishes to be punished for his crime.

 

We also have another of the Russian deflections "destroying of evidence". As yet the only thing that has been destroyed is Dawn and any time you ask people who use this ploy to elaborate on what has been destroyed they can't point to any.

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

 

Re "Craig Murray is not the UK ambassador to anywhere. So knows as much about this as my dog" - correct me if i am wrong - i do not see him saying he knows something. He is only showing contradictions in official versions, and asking questions. After all he is native English speaker well aware of how the system is working, so his opinion is of some interest (at least for me).

You made the post using a person YOU said was a British Ambassador suggesting his position would give him some insight to the events. He is not an ambassador and his inside is as valid as my dog.

 

Please explain these contradiction in the official version.

 

And as for the Rock, should that go in the Putin rocks thread as it has no relevance in this one beside a bit of whataboutery.

 

Could you please demonstrate me what part of "Another point from former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan" contain suggestion "his position would give him some insight to the events" ? He is only political activist with background of high-ranked diplomat, making his judgment based on open sources and his version of common sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray. I do not see why his opinion is of less value then one of British press (that i am told now worth nothing) and acting politicians.

Re the Spy Rock case - as for me, it perfectly demonstrate how British cover-up system works , quite relevant here.

 

Re "The delayed effect of the toxin could be explained by chemical degradation from impurities." - let me remind that "Skripals were poisoned by high-purity novichok, watchdog confirms" https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/skripals-were-poisoned-by-high-purity-novichok-watchdog-confirms-wb8dwphk6

 

You now accept that he is not an UK Ambassador. He was sacked in 2004 for being a prat and only served 2 years in post. He likes to say that he was sacked over what he said but it is more likely that running off with a lapdancer half his age was the real reason. You can see why his judgment may be a bit suspect and in the words of the women he ran off with "Love had nothing to do with it," she says, when I ask her how she ended up with Murray.

"It looked the quickest way out. I was determined to get to the UK or America."

As to cover ups hiding the truth we can look at Russian ones, off the top of my head we have

Fighter pilots in Korea

Russian spy trawlers

Kursk

Chernobyl

Invasion of Crimea

I am sure with a little research I could find a lot more. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

Back to the topic in hand, I have asked you twice now, what are these inconsistencies you keep speaking of but you fail to point them out.

 

I am sorry for having to direct you to word "former" in my initial post ("former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan"). Now you are trying to say (as far as i understand) that since he (in your opinion) was bad Ambassador , he newer was one. Sorry but this rule of English language is too 1984 for me - in barbaric Russia nobody pretend Yeltsin is not former President of Russia because he performed poorly in this role.

 

Re list of "cover ups hiding the truth" - points you listed are debatable, but what you are 100% correct is that Russia \ USSR got own list of cover ups - as any other country (including UK). The difference is UK Government now for some reason pretending to have some kind of moral high ground, with their words having no need to be proven etc. - while obviously not having one.

 

Let me direct you to my post #1915 for list (uncompleted) of UK versions. Yes you dismiss them as unofficial and "media speculations" but, as i said earlier, there is no practical difference as they have extensive political effect.

[Simon Tan]

You know the British are reduced to semantics because they have no ammunition. Literally.

[Stuart Galbraith]

You know you have run out of jokes when you have nothing pithy to say Simon.

 

 

On the positive side in all this, Russia has turned Britain into a chemical weapon superpower. I could giggle like a little girl at the possibilities for deniable action in Russia.

[Briganza]

 

 

 

 

Re "Craig Murray is not the UK ambassador to anywhere. So knows as much about this as my dog" - correct me if i am wrong - i do not see him saying he knows something. He is only showing contradictions in official versions, and asking questions. After all he is native English speaker well aware of how the system is working, so his opinion is of some interest (at least for me).

You made the post using a person YOU said was a British Ambassador suggesting his position would give him some insight to the events. He is not an ambassador and his inside is as valid as my dog.

 

Please explain these contradiction in the official version.

 

And as for the Rock, should that go in the Putin rocks thread as it has no relevance in this one beside a bit of whataboutery.

 

Could you please demonstrate me what part of "Another point from former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan" contain suggestion "his position would give him some insight to the events" ? He is only political activist with background of high-ranked diplomat, making his judgment based on open sources and his version of common sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray. I do not see why his opinion is of less value then one of British press (that i am told now worth nothing) and acting politicians.

Re the Spy Rock case - as for me, it perfectly demonstrate how British cover-up system works , quite relevant here.

 

Re "The delayed effect of the toxin could be explained by chemical degradation from impurities." - let me remind that "Skripals were poisoned by high-purity novichok, watchdog confirms" https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/skripals-were-poisoned-by-high-purity-novichok-watchdog-confirms-wb8dwphk6

 

You now accept that he is not an UK Ambassador. He was sacked in 2004 for being a prat and only served 2 years in post. He likes to say that he was sacked over what he said but it is more likely that running off with a lapdancer half his age was the real reason. You can see why his judgment may be a bit suspect and in the words of the women he ran off with "Love had nothing to do with it," she says, when I ask her how she ended up with Murray.

"It looked the quickest way out. I was determined to get to the UK or America."

As to cover ups hiding the truth we can look at Russian ones, off the top of my head we have

Fighter pilots in Korea

Russian spy trawlers

Kursk

Chernobyl

Invasion of Crimea

I am sure with a little research I could find a lot more. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

Back to the topic in hand, I have asked you twice now, what are these inconsistencies you keep speaking of but you fail to point them out.

 

Let me direct you to my post #1915 for list (uncompleted) of UK versions. Yes you dismiss them as unofficial and "media speculations" but, as i said earlier, there is no practical difference as they have extensive political effect.

 

You are talking rubbish. The only inconsistencies are comming from RT and Russia.

 

From the person running hte investigation

 

 

Det Chief Supt Barnes said: ‘When we catch the people responsible and get them into court and the evidence is being heard, that’s when the full story will emerge. I do not want to jeopardise any opportunity of that end result.’

Any other information is pure speculation by the media or disinformation if it comes from RT or derivatives of Russian media.

 

Have we heard any more phone calls on Russian TV?

[Stuart Galbraith]

Police have taken away 2 bin's in the car park in catherine street in Salisbury after talking to Charlie Rowley. Presumably his memory is starting to reboot.

 

https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2648919/new-cordon-in-salisbury-city-centre/

Police have removed two bins behind the shops on Catherine Street today (Thursday 2nd August).

Counter Terroism Police have taped off an area this morning after speaking to nerve agent victim Charlie Rowley.

They have now removed two bins, from behind the Cancer Research charity shop, as part of the ongoing investigation into the poisoning of Charlie and Dawn Sturgess,

The shops and the pub all remain open.

 

Interestingly, this is just a hop skip and a jump away from what was Trevans books, probably the finest second hand book shop ive ever seen. Half my house is full of second hand MOD books I bought there.

[Roman Alymov]

 

On the positive side in all this, Russia has turned Britain into a chemical weapon superpower. I could giggle like a little girl at the possibilities for deniable action in Russia.

If you think for a while why chemical weapon superpower Brittan is using its power on own territory, first on subhumans from Russia, then on own low classes – you will realize it is because of political momentum it is giving them. This thread is turning 100 pages now. How many multi-page threads we have on this Great Forum discussing tribal wedding bombed or other similar cases? None, as far as I remember. Third world lives do not matter. And Russia is part of third world. So instead of giggling, think where the next poisoning will be next time your Gov will be in need for political support. I’m sure it will be not in Russia (as it is risky waste of resources - nobody cares about what happened in Russia, at least if it is not happening to another pro-Western crook). Only some events on British soil or to UK citizens abroad could give them what they need. It worked nicely for them two times, so they got no reason to stop now.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Roman Alymov

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

 

Let me direct you to my post #1915 for list (uncompleted) of UK versions. Yes you dismiss them as unofficial and "media speculations" but, as i said earlier, there is no practical difference as they have extensive political effect.

 

You are talking rubbish. The only inconsistencies are comming from RT and Russia.

 

From the person running hte investigation

 

 

Det Chief Supt Barnes said: ‘When we catch the people responsible and get them into court and the evidence is being heard, that’s when the full story will emerge. I do not want to jeopardise any opportunity of that end result.’

Any other information is pure speculation by the media or disinformation if it comes from RT or derivatives of Russian media.

 

Have we heard any more phone calls on Russian TV?

 

Let me remind you it was March 12, 2018, when your PM issued ultimatum to Russia - “Theresa May has given Vladimir Putin’s administration until midnight on Tuesday to explain how a former spy was poisoned in Salisbury, otherwise she will conclude it was an “unlawful use of force” by the Russian state against the UK.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/russia-highly-likely-to-be-behind-poisoning-of-spy-says-theresa-may

Today it is August 3, 2018 – and still nothing was produced beyond multiple versions (that you now claim to be media speculations – but this versions were discussed at length by Forum Members here, making this thread very long, not mentioning political fallout like diplomats expulsions etc). May be it is different in civilized world, but in barbaric places like Russia failure to provide verifiable evidence indicates empty-worded accusations.

[Mistral]

Have the British severed diplomatic relations with the country that attacked them? I get it that sending the fleet to Crimea is a big no no now but this is ridiculous.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Have the British severed diplomatic relations with the country that attacked them? I get it that sending the fleet to Crimea is a big no no now but this is ridiculous.

 

I think the atittude of the British Government is that its better to be speaking to the other side, even if they are, demonstrably, crazy. There is my own personal view in that there is no point talking to people whom are completely unable to listen. Not all Russians (I note some of the Russian contingent on tanknet still retain an open mind). Just all the important ones making the decisions.

 

 

You also have the problem that if we closed our respective embassy's, the Americans under Trump would continue with their Putin lovefest and we would look even further out in the cold than we are. So at the moment, I think we are probably doing all we can do, assemble information and biding our time. Every dog has his day and all that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me direct you to my post #1915 for list (uncompleted) of UK versions. Yes you dismiss them as unofficial and "media speculations" but, as i said earlier, there is no practical difference as they have extensive political effect.

 

You are talking rubbish. The only inconsistencies are comming from RT and Russia.

 

From the person running hte investigation

 

 

Det Chief Supt Barnes said: ‘When we catch the people responsible and get them into court and the evidence is being heard, that’s when the full story will emerge. I do not want to jeopardise any opportunity of that end result.’

Any other information is pure speculation by the media or disinformation if it comes from RT or derivatives of Russian media.

 

Have we heard any more phone calls on Russian TV?

 

Let me remind you it was March 12, 2018, when your PM issued ultimatum to Russia - “Theresa May has given Vladimir Putin’s administration until midnight on Tuesday to explain how a former spy was poisoned in Salisbury, otherwise she will conclude it was an “unlawful use of force” by the Russian state against the UK.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/russia-highly-likely-to-be-behind-poisoning-of-spy-says-theresa-may

Today it is August 3, 2018 – and still nothing was produced beyond multiple versions (that you now claim to be media speculations – but this versions were discussed at length by Forum Members here, making this thread very long, not mentioning political fallout like diplomats expulsions etc). May be it is different in civilized world, but in barbaric places like Russia failure to provide verifiable evidence indicates empty-worded accusations.

 

 

That ultimatum was for our benefit, not Russia's. Being the injured party, we are not required to give Russia a brass farthing, other than via the CWC. And ultimately there would be no point. The Russian Government knows full well what it did. It doesnt need us to brief it on what its own employees are doing at its behest.

 

 

 

 

On the positive side in all this, Russia has turned Britain into a chemical weapon superpower. I could giggle like a little girl at the possibilities for deniable action in Russia.

If you think for a while why chemical weapon superpower Brittan is using its power on own territory, first on subhumans from Russia, then on own low classes – you will realize it is because of political momentum it is giving them. This thread is turning 100 pages now. How many multi-page threads we have on this Great Forum discussing tribal wedding bombed or other similar cases? None, as far as I remember. Third world lives do not matter. And Russia is part of third world. So instead of giggling, think where the next poisoning will be next time your Gov will be in need for political support. I’m sure it will be not in Russia (as it is risky waste of resources - nobody cares about what happened in Russia, at least if it is not happening to another pro-Western crook). Only some events on British soil or to UK citizens abroad could give them what they need. It worked nicely for them two times, so they got no reason to stop now.

 

Why said anything about Russians being subhuman? I said at the start of this thread, I dont hold Russian's responsible for this murderous farce, I hold the Russian Government responsible. I still do.

 

Here is where the Russian narrative falls apart.

 

1 British Government engineered this to ruin the world cup. Nope. Because we all still went anyway.

2 Its doing it to distract from Brexit. Actually the world cup was doing a good job of distracting us from Brexit anyway, so nope.

3 Its doing it to split American's away from fixing relations with Russia. If the Mueller probe cannot achieve that, I dont think most Americans would give a toss about what they see as a small town in Salisbury, so nope.

 

And so on and so on, to 31 different explanations. At every point, every explanation given of why this happened devolves down to the murderous British trying to kill innocent Russians. Overlooking of course that only one of them was Russian because you stripped Skripal seniors citizenship, and the only person actually killed was a British citizen. If MI6 had engineered this debacle on a street in Russia, what do you think the net result would be? A hell of a lot less immoderate than what we have done. So count yourself lucky your Government attacked the politest people on earth.

 

Face up to it Roman, your alternative explanations of what happened are a crock of shite. I dont remotely blame you for believing them, It must be a better alternative than believing your Government is a gang of cutthroats and murderers. But I can blame you for thinking Im going to believe what is self evidently palpable nonsense. We couldnt even keep Profumo and Spycatcher under wraps, we leak our entire Brexit plan on a memo held by someone walking into the negotiations, and you think we can plan something as elaborate as this just to annoy Russia and somehow expect to keep it secret? Its cloud cuckoo land.

 

Personally, I dont give a flying fuck about the 3rd world. I really dont, and I greatly suspect you dont either. I really do care about places where I live and care about that have been attacked by a gang of terrorists. And if the Russian Government sent them, that means your Government is led by terrorists too. Its not hard to understand, except for the willfully obtuse.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-amesbury-investigation-continues-316115

 

Two bins have now been removed from a cordoned-off area in Salisbury.

Officers from the Counter Terrorism Policing Network are continuing to speak to Charlie Rowley about his recollections prior to him falling ill.

As a result of this, specialists began removing two bins from a cordoned-off area behind shops in Catherine Street, Salisbury, at approximately 1.00hrs this morning, Thursday, 2 August. The bins have been taken to the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down for analysis.

Now that the bins have been removed, cordons which were put in place around the bins as a precaution have been removed.

The advice from Public Health England remains that the risk to the public is low.

Police searches are ongoing at a number of sites, including the Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury which has been identified as a location that Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley had visited prior to them falling ill. As a highly precautionary measure, the park is subject of an extensive search to ensure that there is nothing of investigative relevance at that location and to provide confidence to the public that it is safe to use the area when it is reopened.

The town path in Salisbury was reopened to the public on Tuesday, 31 July.

Officers from the investigation team completed their work inside John Baker House and the scene was handed back to colleagues from Wiltshire Police on Friday, 20 July.

 

 

John Baker house being the hostel Dawn Sturgess was staying in. Clearly she was poisoned at Rowleys flat, so it would never have come into contact with the poison.

[Roman Alymov]

Re "That ultimatum was for our benefit, not Russia's. " part - First, traditionally, let me remind you that word "claimed" is missing here. Your Gov claimed to be "the injured party" - but i'm afraid this claims, with all my respect, are far from being facts. Second, nice to see you acknowledging "that ultimatum was for our benefit" - surely it was, as well as whole affair from the beginning. By the way this ultimatum was issued prior to not only any OPCW findings, but also prior to OPCW getting any samples:
"On 14 March Prime Minister Theresa May sent a letter to Director-General of the OPCW Technical Secretariat Ahmet Uzumcu inviting the OPCW Technical Secretariat “to independently verify the analysis” of the British investigation into the Salisbury incident.
On 19 March the group of the OPCW experts reportedly arrived to the UK. On 22 March the Court of Protection authorized taking of biomedical samples from Mr and Ms Skripal for OPCW analysis." (for your convenience - timeline from Rus embassy https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6481 )

Re " Why said anything about Russians being subhuman? " - It is not about what is said, but about media coverage (and political effect) reality. Terror attack in 3rd world countries, with hundreds of victims, hardly make to main stream media coverage at all, not mentioning any long effect. Terror attack in 1st world, even without anybody killed, is topic of the day, if not week or month. So to get any result, one need attack on 1st world, not 3rd.
" Here is where the Russian narrative falls apart." - actually, not - since failure to achieve something is not indicating not trying to. As far as i know, UK Gov was not exactly successful in achieving its goals (internal and external) in recent years, sometimes even coming close to disastrous failure (like Scotland vote that was close to separate the country). I see no reason to expect this people to be more successful in this case.
Re " Face up to it Roman, your alternative explanations of what happened are a crock of shite. " - For example, could you please demonstrate me how "the nerve agent that poisoned the Russian spy Sergei Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow, intelligence agencies now believe" theory (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/15/suitcase-spy-poisoning-plot-nerve-agent-planted-luggage-sergei/) is "devolves down to the murderous British trying to kill innocent Russians"?

[Stuart Galbraith]

And once again, you are accepting a British newspaper as if it was the direct word of the British Government. Try to understand just for once Roman, not every newspaper under the sun is a direct representive of the Governments views, as it is apparently the case in your country. Even the BBC has been known to savage the incumbent British Government. Can you imagine Vremya doing that to yours? No, probably not.

I ought to say that, opinionated though it sometimes is, The Telegraph is a pretty good newspaper, but its perfectly free to be wrong just like everyone else.

 

If you want a direct statement of how the Police are handling the case, look back through the archive of MET ATB statements going back to march. You will note quite how little that has ended up in the press was actually said by them.

http://news.met.police.uk/latest_news/tag/specialist-operations#filter-list-items

[Roman Alymov]

And once again, you are accepting a British newspaper as if it was the direct word of the British Government. Try to understand just for once Roman, not every newspaper under the sun is a direct representive of the Governments views, as it is apparently the case in your country. Even the BBC has been known to savage the incumbent British Government. Can you imagine Vremya doing that to yours? No, probably not.

I ought to say that, opinionated though it sometimes is, The Telegraph is a pretty good newspaper, but its perfectly free to be wrong just like everyone else.

 

If you want a direct statement of how the Police are handling the case, look back through the archive of MET ATB statements going back to march. You will note quite how little that has ended up in the press was actually said by them.

http://news.met.police.uk/latest_news/tag/specialist-operations#filter-list-items

Actually, not. As I have repeatedly said, I do not believe Western media are controlled by Western Governments – but I believe both media and governments are controlled by ruling elites. This control surely got limits (as any control), and since ruling elites are just people, often with different (sometimes confronting) interests, they do not necessarily all follow the same line – but they are not exactly “independent”. See pro-Trump\anti-Trump campaigns in USA for example.

By the way in your previous post you insisted “you stripped Skripal seniors citizenship” – could you please tell where this information omming from? Officially, Sergey Skripal was newer stripped off Russian citizenship (see for example http://tass.com/politics/995522orhttps://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6481 "After being pardoned, Mr Skripal moved to the United Kingdom and has resided in Salisbury, Wiltshire, while retaining his Russian citizenship. According to UK authorities, he has also obtained British citizenship"). I wonder what passport he was using during his foreign travels - since, as far as i remember, it took some time to UK authorities to identify him as UK citizen after the incident (so i am not ruling out UK citizenship was granted to him after the incident) .

[Adam Peter]

Have the British severed diplomatic relations with the country that attacked them? I get it that sending the fleet to Crimea is a big no no now but this is ridiculous.

 

Most ridiculous was when they paused every action till their football players had chance to get the World Cup.

[Roman Alymov]

 

Have the British severed diplomatic relations with the country that attacked them? I get it that sending the fleet to Crimea is a big no no now but this is ridiculous.

 

Most ridiculous was when they paused every action till their football players had chance to get the World Cup.

 

I was working with ESPN during FIFA championship 2018, and was surprised to see the difference between camera crews from Latin America and UK: Mexicans (who are not exactly from the safest country on the planet) travel everywhere by van, with Russian fixer\translator and Rus security, taking great care. For Britons, it is ok to send lone cameraman loaded with expensive equipment and speaking no Russian to loiter around Moscow by public transport. Seems like on personal and business level they are not buying their Gov propaganda about dangers of Russia (at least those of them who reached Russia). Still they were far from Germans who were going to major football match in families including children of 2yo or younger.

[glenn239]

 

 

On the positive side in all this, Russia has turned Britain into a chemical weapon superpower. I could giggle like a little girl at the possibilities for deniable action in Russia.

If you think for a while why chemical weapon superpower Brittan is using its power on own territory, first on subhumans from Russia, then on own low classes – you will realize it is because of political momentum it is giving them. This thread is turning 100 pages now. How many multi-page threads we have on this Great Forum discussing tribal wedding bombed or other similar cases? None, as far as I remember. Third world lives do not matter. And Russia is part of third world. So instead of giggling, think where the next poisoning will be next time your Gov will be in need for political support. I’m sure it will be not in Russia (as it is risky waste of resources - nobody cares about what happened in Russia, at least if it is not happening to another pro-Western crook). Only some events on British soil or to UK citizens abroad could give them what they need. It worked nicely for them two times, so they got no reason to stop now.

 

 

Roman, if the Russians did it then they're actually getting off pretty lightly so far. But, what scares the hell out of me is if the Russians didn't do it, but we treat them like they did do it, because that might spiral out of hand. So it's hard to place blame the UK government for being really, really cautious about the gathering of evidence and such, and that assembling a case takes a long time. (Police cases can take years).

[glenn239]

 

Actually, not. As I have repeatedly said, I do not believe Western media are controlled by Western Governments – but I believe both media and governments are controlled by ruling elites. This control surely got limits (as any control), and since ruling elites are just people, often with different (sometimes confronting) interests, they do not necessarily all follow the same line – but they are not exactly “independent”. See pro-Trump\anti-Trump campaigns in USA for example.

 

 

Distrust of western media is (I think) at an all time high over here. I used to watch CNN all the time as ,my main news source but now I split it up amongst different places because CNN has gone TFN on Trump/Russia coverage. This response to split viewing sources and piece together is pretty common AFAIK.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Have the British severed diplomatic relations with the country that attacked them? I get it that sending the fleet to Crimea is a big no no now but this is ridiculous.

 

Most ridiculous was when they paused every action till their football players had chance to get the World Cup.

 

 

Makes perfect sense to me. We even interrupted WW1 to play football with the Kaiser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

 

The top and bottom of it is, withthe American President so desirous of playing tounge hockey with the Tsar, our options are distinctly limited. Even half of Europe are straining at the leash to go and trade with Russia. Short of assassinating select Russian leadership (which frankly Id get fully behind, though I suspect few others would) there isnt much that can be done.

 

At the moment. Times change. Nobody thought we would ever jail the bastard whom blew up Pan Am 103, but we did. Ditto various mass murderers in the Former Yugoslavia. Something I would hope a few people in Russia might reflect upon, because no regime last forever.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Roman Alymov]

 

The top and bottom of it is, withthe American President so desirous of playing tounge hockey with the Tsar, our options are distinctly limited. Even half of Europe are straining at the leash to go and trade with Russia. Short of assassinating select Russian leadership (which frankly Id get fully behind, though I suspect few others would) there isnt much that can be done.

 

 

It is interesting in two ways: first, openly discussing political terror attack (not mentioning based on false flag operation) – how many times have you seen Russians discussing assassinating select British leadership here? Second, failure to understand simple fact of Putin&Co are relatively weak and pro-Western leadership. Western attack on them will be cheered by many people in Russia as clearing the way for really pro-Russian (and anti-Western, as there is hardly any way of peaceful coexistence with West going more mad every day) people.

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

 

 

Roman, if the Russians did it then they're actually getting off pretty lightly so far. But, what scares the hell out of me is if the Russians didn't do it, but we treat them like they did do it, because that might spiral out of hand. So it's hard to place blame the UK government for being really, really cautious about the gathering of evidence and such, and that assembling a case takes a long time. (Police cases can take years).

 

Investigation now is useless as all political damage already done without waiting for any facts, people here discussing cruise missile strike or assassination of leadership of world’s #2 nuclear power (in other words, developments that leads to nuclear exchange in 99%). At the same time the same people are saying facts are not published because it may lead to perfume producer demanding compensation…. As for me, it is madness.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Roman Alymov

[glenn239]

​

 

 

 

 

 

 

Roman, if the Russians did it then they're actually getting off pretty lightly so far. But, what scares the hell out of me is if the Russians didn't do it, but we treat them like they did do it, because that might spiral out of hand. So it's hard to place blame the UK government for being really, really cautious about the gathering of evidence and such, and that assembling a case takes a long time. (Police cases can take years).

 

Investigation now is useless as all political damage already done without waiting for any facts, people here discussing cruise missile strike or assassination of leadership of world’s #2 nuclear power (in other words, developments that leads to nuclear exchange in 99%). At the same time the same people are saying facts are not published because it may lead to perfume producer demanding compensation…. As for me, it is madness.

 

 

Investigation is not 'useless', it just has to be reported factually. That can take a lot of time and in the meantime, all sorts of false theories and such might come out. The attack is not dissimilar to other Russian ops against Russians on British soil, so the hypothesis Russia ordered it is not unreasonable, but still unproven.

[JWB]

There is no reason for the May administration to put a hit on Skripal. He is a foreigner that almost no one cares about. There is no reason to distract from Brexit as almost no one cares very much either. At least not enough to threaten May's tenure. Both stories have almost totally fallen off the map.

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/mainsection/topstories

[Stuart Galbraith]

If anything we are downplaying it. Rather than it being a distraction from Brexit, the Government is clearly so distracted by Brexit, its putting it on the back burner till later.

 

Here is the absurd thing about the whole 'conspiracy' theory. The Government (all British Governments actually) are obsessed by the M25 rule. If it happened inside the M25, it happened. If it happened outside the M25, its in a land of shadows, of myth, of rumour. So the idea that the Government would deliberately stage a distraction out in Wiltshire where, frankly, nobody has demonstrated a damn about since they put up Stonehenge, it fails. If they did this on London Bridge, or a prominent London station, it would function perfeclty as a distraction. Salisbury, WIltshire, where is that exactly?

 

Im sure the same trend is evident in the US or Russia. If it happens in the capital city, it happened. If it happened out in Bumfuck Arizona or Freezmatitzoff Siberia, it didnt really happen at all.

 

Whomever did this, didnt want it to look like it happened. Or at least assumed because it didnt happen in London, as with LItvinenko, it would be of only marginal interest. In the short term they were wrong, in the long term they were right. Did President Trump visit Salisbury on his high speed Blitz through the UK? No. Which tells you its already forgotten about. Some distraction huh?

Edited August 4, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Roman Alymov]

If anything we are downplaying it. Rather than it being a distraction from Brexit, the Government is clearly so distracted by Brexit, its putting it on the back burner till later.

 

Again, I do not think it was initially planned by UK Government (as it is clearly too chaotic for planed event). As for me, it may be attempt to use incident that happened during attempt to smuggle something into Russia, for political purpose – converting coverup operation into false flag operation.