Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.

[RETAC21]

 

I must be missing something, which of those was put out by the UK government and which was media speculation. You must remember that the media does its own thing and writes what it thinks will sell.

 

 

No practical difference between versions "put out by the UK government" and "media speculation" as long as both are equally crazy, influencing public opinion and resulting in political decisions (like calls for actions against Russia etc) and personal decisions (like British fans afraid to go to championship in Russia) .

Is example below "media speculation" or "official version"?

 

 

Seems the guy that made the infographic is a bit geographically challenged as he put the "RAF base in Cyprus" in Crete.

[Briganza]

 

 

I must be missing something, which of those was put out by the UK government and which was media speculation. You must remember that the media does its own thing and writes what it thinks will sell.

 

 

No practical difference between versions "put out by the UK government" and "media speculation" as long as both are equally crazy, influencing public opinion and resulting in political decisions (like calls for actions against Russia etc) and personal decisions (like British fans afraid to go to championship in Russia) .

Is example below "media speculation" or "official version"?

 

 

Seems the guy that made the infographic is a bit geographically challenged as he put the "RAF base in Cyprus" in Crete.

 

It's a secret base, sssh.

[Briganza]

 

Yes it must be hard living under a dictator who controls every aspect of the media, to then imagine that other countries media can have a mind of its own.

 

Actually, much easier than you think. Your free media is completely useless, too, because in any given moment no one knows what is in the newspaper is true or false. So it is only noise, capitalizing on the basic human instinct of getting know stuff - exactly like Facebook, for example, just slower.

 

Off topic, on CCTV and police work, have the police captured the runner who literally threw a woman under the bus yet?

 

Only in your mind. To compare the garbage put out by the likes of RT and Sputnik to that of Western serious media is laughable and does you no justice. Western media has it's problems but to say it is a mouthpiece of government is rubbish.

 

Taking news/facts from twitter/facebook or any of the others (none of which I have) is tantamount to the guy down the pub who met Elvis last week. Some tabloids I wouldn't trust them to get the date right let alone facts and others will put a spin on it but report the facts accurately. And then you you have the speculation which is based around facts but padded out with "what I think" from the writer. You also have the Adam Garrie who Russian media extole as experts to prop up the total rubbish that they churn out and that Russians and others lap up as fact.

 

As to your question about CCTV, we see a clear case that in reality it can be good (excellent image in a report on BBC of the murder of the father of two of the children from the Parkland shooting) and bad and unlike that used in Hollywood, getting good ID from it can be difficult. Having a photo of the accused is one thing but matching it to a person is then difficult particularly when you don't live in a totalitarian state. It also highlight the point that unlike many in the US think the UK is not wall to wall CCTV and you can't follow a person all the way home. A number of people were interviewed but no charges were made as there was not sufficient evidence to charge.

[Briganza]

 

I must be missing something, which of those was put out by the UK government and which was media speculation. You must remember that the media does its own thing and writes what it thinks will sell.

 

 

No practical difference between versions "put out by the UK government" and "media speculation" as long as both are equally crazy, influencing public opinion and resulting in political decisions (like calls for actions against Russia etc) and personal decisions (like British fans afraid to go to championship in Russia) .

Is example below "media speculation" or "official version"?

 

Was it put out by government or from media? Simple question a yes or no will do.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Yes it must be hard living under a dictator who controls every aspect of the media, to then imagine that other countries media can have a mind of its own.

 

Actually, much easier than you think. Your free media is completely useless, too, because in any given moment no one knows what is in the newspaper is true or false. So it is only noise, capitalizing on the basic human instinct of getting know stuff - exactly like Facebook, for example, just slower.

 

Off topic, on CCTV and police work, have the police captured the runner who literally threw a woman under the bus yet?

 

It would be more accurate to say occasionally completely useless. You cannot trust a single British daily to be anywhere unemotional and reflective about Brexit. On many issues, clearly they do talk sense. Many a good word about the Litvinenko murder was written by the Guardian reporters, but who bothered to read it? Far easier to deprecate the entire British media than reflect they sometimes have a point.

 

Last I heard, they had not. OTOH, they were on the middle of a bridge which generally does not have much cctv on it, and london is nothing if not replete with joggers. Its kind of like looking for a specific KGB hood in the Kremlin. Needle in a haystack territory.

[Adam Peter]

As to your question about CCTV, we see a clear case that in reality it can be good (excellent image in a report on BBC of the murder of the father of two of the children from the Parkland shooting) and bad and unlike that used in Hollywood, getting good ID from it can be difficult. Having a photo of the accused is one thing but matching it to a person is then difficult particularly when you don't live in a totalitarian state. It also highlight the point that unlike many in the US think the UK is not wall to wall CCTV and you can't follow a person all the way home. A number of people were interviewed but no charges were made as there was not sufficient evidence to charge.

Thanks, what I was seen was a quite remarkably good quality CCTV recording of the homicide attempt. If that's not enough to identify someone...

[Adam Peter]

It would be more accurate to say occasionally completely useless. You cannot trust a single British daily to be anywhere unemotional and reflective about Brexit. On many issues, clearly they do talk sense. Many a good word about the Litvinenko murder was written by the Guardian reporters, but who bothered to read it? Far easier to deprecate the entire British media than reflect they sometimes have a point.

Sometimes even RT and Sputnik have a point, but these are far from the advertised BBC quality.

 

Honestly, I don't know much about your press. Had it a Watergate moment, unearthing something, not "just" visited by whistleblowers?

 

Briganza suggests there is another source, "put out by Government". Where is it if not in the newspapers?

Information like this is pure speculation, easily denied when the investigation turns into different way?

 

Is Roman right, and 96 of 97 pages of the topic are nothing but anti-Russian propaganda built on the human trait no one will be interested in the official truth in a year?

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

It would be more accurate to say occasionally completely useless. You cannot trust a single British daily to be anywhere unemotional and reflective about Brexit. On many issues, clearly they do talk sense. Many a good word about the Litvinenko murder was written by the Guardian reporters, but who bothered to read it? Far easier to deprecate the entire British media than reflect they sometimes have a point.

Sometimes even RT and Sputnik have a point, but these are far from the advertised BBC quality.

 

Honestly, I don't know much about your press. Had it a Watergate moment, unearthing something, not "just" visited by whistleblowers?

 

Briganza suggests there is another source, "put out by Government". Where is it if not in the newspapers?

Information like this is pure speculation, easily denied when the investigation turns into different way?

 

Is Roman right, and 96 of 97 pages of the topic are nothing but anti-Russian propaganda built on the human trait no one will be interested in the official truth in a year?

 

 

Its had a few. It uncovered Profumo pretty much by itself. Also, it did a LOT of good work in the 1970s uncovering a series of scandals in the Metropolitan police, a trend it continues to follow with the Stephen Lawrence murder.

 

What is it bad at, well its piss poor at uncovering political scandals usually, for a reason Hunter S Thompson once pointed to about US politics, the journalists have been too clubby with the politicians. They also failed to uncover a series of sex scandals, such as the Jimmy Saville one, again one suspects for much the same reason.

 

Its a mixed bag. My own view is that the Rupert Murdoch influence did terrible damage to the quality of journalism in the UK. But it still has its moments. The coverage on Salisbury and Amesbury has been usually pretty good, albeit with a lot of speculation. Which has been right for the most part, as far as I can tell.

[Briganza]

 

It would be more accurate to say occasionally completely useless. You cannot trust a single British daily to be anywhere unemotional and reflective about Brexit. On many issues, clearly they do talk sense. Many a good word about the Litvinenko murder was written by the Guardian reporters, but who bothered to read it? Far easier to deprecate the entire British media than reflect they sometimes have a point.

Sometimes even RT and Sputnik have a point, but these are far from the advertised BBC quality.

 

Honestly, I don't know much about your press. Had it a Watergate moment, unearthing something, not "just" visited by whistleblowers?

 

Briganza suggests there is another source, "put out by Government". Where is it if not in the newspapers?

Information like this is pure speculation, easily denied when the investigation turns into different way?

 

Is Roman right, and 96 of 97 pages of the topic are nothing but anti-Russian propaganda built on the human trait no one will be interested in the official truth in a year?

 

Generally if it does not have a name attached then it is not government claim.

 

 

​​

The Metropolitan police, which is leading the investigation, declined to comment. The security minister, Ben Wallace, tweeted that the PA report belonged in the “ill-informed and wild speculation folder”.

As in this case we have a name and position so that is a government statement and not speculation. The same would apply to the police which is why they have press conferences. Twitter is a tool that should only be used by adults and then under close supervision as some muppet could give the impression of policy without the authority to do so. We also have the one to one talks/interviews and Russia made a lot out of what Boris said but when you actually look at what he said it was in line with policy and accurate.

 

Now we would be naive if we thought that open reporting was not given access to Off The Record interviews or bits of paper pasted across the bar and these may lead some of the speculation. But this can be dangerous for both the reporter and the source .

[Stuart Galbraith]

Report here from Charlie Rowley's Brother, that the bottle broke which is when Charlie was contaminated.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/charlie-rowley-latest-novichok-poisoning-amesbury-recovery-hospital-release-a8457631.html

 

No wonder they are desperate to find the scene of where the bottle was found.

[Briganza]

What I find interesting is that what is now being said reflects what has been comming out of Russia before it was reported in the UK as if they knew all along what had happened. Mr rowley is reporting that the perfume was in a sealed box adn the had to cut it open. He also said that Dawn recognised the make. Was this a stand by just incase the first did not work? Did they dump all the stuff they did not need/use?

Novichok poisoning victim Charlie Rowley reveals perfume gift he gave to partner contained deadly nerve agent

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yes, that was an interesting discovery wasnt it? The Novichok was disguised as a well known perfume brand (Chanel no5 maybe?) and clearly left in a place that was easy to find. Which begs the question of course, is it a backup, or is it actually an act of terrorism?

 

It clearly was not brought in someones makeup bag in this manner. It seems to indicate that it was shipped in bulk, either via an aircraft (in an Amazon box?) or a cargo container. If the latter, you really have to stop and wonder how much of this stuff they have brought in. Because clearly we have no means of detecting it brought in with such a method.

 

I idly thought they might have used a syringe and obtained it from the package in that manner. But I think if they had, the bottle would still have leaked and Rowley was pretty specific, it was sealed. Which strongly implies that somewhere out there in Salisbury is another bottle, perhaps leaking.

[Briganza]

I do wonder if this was to camouflage the true target at the time. If a number of people had been contaminated it would have been difficult to identify, with certainty who the target was. It also suggests that there was a certain level of state involvement as the cost of putting together a production line for a small run of perfume would have been great. Criminal gangs do it with fake perfume but they plan to sell lots of them to cover the start up cost. Early posts from the troll farms about poison perfume now take on a more ominous slant and not the comical one they claim.

 

I also can't see the major perfume manufacturers being too please that one of their products was used for camouflage. When the fakes identity come out I can't see them selling much next valentines day. "Is this a hint dear".

 

How many of these bottles have been produced and are they being held in a secure place.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I mean, its very possible to get alarmist over this, but if they have figured out a way to vaccum pack perfume and get it across borders, the ability to use it for mass terror purposes is self evident. Bleach, deoderant. Its all a possible weapon. You could even break into someones house, deposit it in a cupboard, and leg it abroad. You would be well out of range before anyone figured out it had been planted. And no way to prove it hadnt been bought in a shop.

 

Im kind of thinking this might be one of the fringe benefits of a hard Brexit you know.

 

Yes, everything points to state invovlement. One of the scientists on the Novichok team said its too hard to synthesize in your garage. Then you have managed to create packaging to emulate a mass market product. If this doesnt point to Russian Government involvement, you can call me Van Der Kloppen.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Panzermann]

I do wonder if this was to camouflage the true target at the time. If a number of people had been contaminated it would have been difficult to identify, with certainty who the target was. It also suggests that there was a certain level of state involvement as the cost of putting together a production line for a small run of perfume would have been great. Criminal gangs do it with fake perfume but they plan to sell lots of them to cover the start up cost. Early posts from the troll farms about poison perfume now take on a more ominous slant and not the comical one they claim.

 

I also can't see the major perfume manufacturers being too please that one of their products was used for camouflage. When the fakes identity come out I can't see them selling much next valentines day. "Is this a hint dear".

 

How many of these bottles have been produced and are they being held in a secure place.

 

 

the perpetraitors of the attack could have easily bought perfume (imitation or the real smell) and then added the chem war agent. Also suplys the appropiate bottles.

 

 

a perfume bottle makes sense as container, because they are airtight and people open them to sniff.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Panzermann

[Stuart Galbraith]

Panzermann, I dont think you understand. The Novichok that killed Dawn Sturgess wasnt just in the original box. It was in cellophane that hadnt even been opened.

 

So somewhere in Russia they have a plant that yes, probably buys in original bottles. But has the ability to put the stuff in the bottle, make it look original, and wrap it in cellophane. This isnt something that would be done on the fly. It would take preperation and some infrastructure to make it happen.

 

It also implies that somewhere out there in Salisbury, there is a bottle of this shit that was opened. Hopefully in a landfill by now, but who knows?

[Briganza]

 

I do wonder if this was to camouflage the true target at the time. If a number of people had been contaminated it would have been difficult to identify, with certainty who the target was. It also suggests that there was a certain level of state involvement as the cost of putting together a production line for a small run of perfume would have been great. Criminal gangs do it with fake perfume but they plan to sell lots of them to cover the start up cost. Early posts from the troll farms about poison perfume now take on a more ominous slant and not the comical one they claim.

 

I also can't see the major perfume manufacturers being too please that one of their products was used for camouflage. When the fakes identity come out I can't see them selling much next valentines day. "Is this a hint dear".

 

How many of these bottles have been produced and are they being held in a secure place.

 

 

the perpetraitors of the attack could have easily bought perfume (imitation or the real smell) and then added the chem war agent. Also suplys the appropiate bottles.

 

 

a perfume bottle makes sense as container, because they are airtight and people open them to sniff.

 

Mr Rowley is saying that the perfume was boxed and in celofane which they had to use a knife to open. I am not all that confident in his testimony as he has been through a lot, but I would think that a search of his house would turn up all the items to back up his description.

 

I agree it is an excellent from of camouflage.

 

A number of trolls have suggested that this is all a fabrication to cover up Mr Rowley's murder of Dawn. They came up with that before we knew it was in a perfume bottle. Strange that.

 

I do wonder if MI6 knew the general plan shortly after the attack and that intelligence was passed to the countries who hoofed out the Russians.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Does anyone find this quite as alarming as I do?

 

https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2642649/safe-to-buy-perfumes-in-salisbury-and-amesbury-after-novichok-incidents/

 

Wiltshire Police has also reiterated their advice that 'if you didn't drop it, don't pick it up'.

There's a reassurance from police that it is safe to buy perfumes and similar products from reputable sources in Salisbury and Amesbury.

It comes after novichok victim Charlie Rowley mentioned in a TV interview this week that the substance that poisoned him and his partner Dawn Sturgess was in a sealed, cellophane wrapped box with a well known brand.

He said he couldn't remember where he found it, leading to questions about where it came from.

 

In a community meeting last night (Wednesday July 25th), Wiltshire's Deputy Chief Constable Paul Mills said trusted retailers aren't believed to be a danger:

"We have no understanding of any risk in relation to that. But if someone was to come along, and see something which was a liquid but they don't know where it's come from, they shouldn't be picking it up, simple as that. It just brings to life that mantra that we've been talking about with the public health messaging."

That advice is 'if you didn't drop it, don't pick it up'.

44 year old Dawn Sturgess died on July 8th at Salisbury District Hospital following exposure to a nerve agent, while 45 year old Charlie Rowley was discharged from hospital last week (Friday July 20th) and continues his recovery.

 

 

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/cops-probing-novichok-nerve-agent-12982126

Police officers - likely to be wearing protective clothing - are to carry out enquiries at the Boots store in Amesbury as part of the investigation into the Novichok poisoning in the Wiltshire town.

Dawn Sturgess died on July 8 after she and her partner Charlie Rowley both fell ill at the end of June.

Mr Rowley, 45, said the deadly nerve agent took just 15 minutes to poison Ms Sturgess after she sprayed the "oily" substance on to her wrists believing it was perfume.

Mr Rowley, who was discharged from hospital last week, gave the mother-of-three the bottle as a present.

 

He told ITV : "I do have a memory of her spraying it on her wrists and rubbing them together.

"I guess that's how she applied it and became ill. I guess how I got in contact with it is when I put the spray part to the bottle... I ended tipping some on my hands, but I washed it off under the tap."

The Metropolitan Police's Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu has previously said Mr Rowley visited Boots on Stonehenge Walk at around midday on June 30, and returned to his house around half an hour later.

 

Wiltshire Police said officers would visit the shop on Thursday morning to collect CCTV as part of the inquiry. Protective equipment will be worn on a precautionary basis, the force added.

The cordon at the home of Ms Sturgess was lifted earlier this week, with investigators saying no contamination risk had been identified at John Baker House, the supported-living accommodation in Salisbury.

Public Health England's advice is that the wider risk to the public remains low.

 

Mr Rowley and Ms Sturgess were victims of the second nerve agent incident in four months following the case of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

They were found unconscious on a park bench in Salisbury in March.

In the aftermath, Home Secretary Sajid Javid accused the Russian state of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison", and demanded the Kremlin provide an explanation for the two episodes.

[Panzermann]

Well, it hashappened about twice now, that people picked a bottle up that was containing poison and got poisoned. So I think it is good advice not to pick up random stuff and risk that mmore poisoned bottles have been placed in the area.

 

 

Reminds me of dog-haters placing poisoned sausages to kill dogs.

[Panzermann]

Panzermann, I dont think you understand. The Novichok that killed Dawn Sturgess wasnt just in the original box. It was in cellophane that hadnt even been opened.

 

So somewhere in Russia they have a plant that yes, probably buys in original bottles. But has the ability to put the stuff in the bottle, make it look original, and wrap it in cellophane. This isnt something that would be done on the fly. It would take preperation and some infrastructure to make it happen.

 

It also implies that somewhere out there in Salisbury, there is a bottle of this shit that was opened. Hopefully in a landfill by now, but who knows?

 

 

I thought you have worked in packaging? Wrapping something in new cellophane is not hard. Yes a bit more difficult to wrap it as tghtly as a machine does it, but with some connections and access to a packaging machine doable. Or someone was inventive enough to build a small household size machine or doing it. We just don't know who or why or how exactly.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well, it hashappened about twice now, that people picked a bottle up that was containing poison and got poisoned. So I think it is good advice not to pick up random stuff and risk that mmore poisoned bottles have been placed in the area.

 

 

Reminds me of dog-haters placing poisoned sausages to kill dogs.

 

This is what worries me. That someone might have put this stuff on the shelf, to sow doubt about where it came from.

At the very least, its clear the police are making sure he didnt buy it in Boots and forgot about it. The poor man clearly has a job working out which way is up after what he has been through. I cant blame the police for wanting to be sure.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Panzermann, I dont think you understand. The Novichok that killed Dawn Sturgess wasnt just in the original box. It was in cellophane that hadnt even been opened.

 

So somewhere in Russia they have a plant that yes, probably buys in original bottles. But has the ability to put the stuff in the bottle, make it look original, and wrap it in cellophane. This isnt something that would be done on the fly. It would take preperation and some infrastructure to make it happen.

 

It also implies that somewhere out there in Salisbury, there is a bottle of this shit that was opened. Hopefully in a landfill by now, but who knows?

 

 

I thought you have worked in packaging? Wrapping something in new cellophane is not hard. Yes a bit more difficult to wrap it as tghtly as a machine does it, but with some connections and access to a packaging machine doable. Or someone was inventive enough to build a small household size machine or doing it. We just don't know who or why or how exactly.

 

 

No, I worked in a vacuum cleaner factory. The closest I got to packaging was boxing about 400 vacuum cleaners a day. Still, it did wonders for the biceps.

 

The Russians clearly have a highly effective fake goods industry. For example, they had a factory on Kaliningrad that was making cut price cigarettes they were packaging in European style packaging before smuggling it over the border. So my guess is, if they have a facility that does it, I would not be surprised if it was there.

 

Well as I see it, why have a military grade nerve agent the people whom made it say cannot be made shot of an industrial plant. You add that to sophisticated packaging which clearly fooled 2 people at least, if not more. I dont buy that this was some guy in his garage playing games. If it was paraquat in a bottle, yes I could believe it. This, not likely I think.

[Roman Alymov]

Panzermann, I dont think you understand. The Novichok that killed Dawn Sturgess wasnt just in the original box. It was in cellophane that hadnt even been opened.

 

So somewhere in Russia they have a plant that yes, probably buys in original bottles. But has the ability to put the stuff in the bottle, make it look original, and wrap it in cellophane. This isnt something that would be done on the fly. It would take preperation and some infrastructure to make it happen.

 

It also implies that somewhere out there in Salisbury, there is a bottle of this shit that was opened. Hopefully in a landfill by now, but who knows?

I do not know about UK, but in Spain guys (mostly African-looking) are selling high-end perfume (in boxes and cellophane etc) almost on every corner in tourist areas, including beaches, for tiny amount of money, obviously it is fakes. So it is all made in Russia?

Excellent, versions and speculations continue to mount - now it is not mysterious Russian KGB female agent throwing away the bottle after spraying Skripal's door handle, but tightly sealed box ("sealed box in a cellophane wrapper") with something looking like unused perfume of known brand, but with it's pump not in place ("he attempted to place the pump dispenser inside the bottle") - male victim conveniently remember this details, but do not know where he found it.... Symptoms are also very strange: " "Within 15 minutes, I believe Dawn said she felt she had a headache and asked me if I had any headache tablets. I had a look around the flat and within that time she said she felt peculiar and needed to lie down in the bath, which at the time I thought was a bit strange. I went into the bathroom and found her in the bath, fully clothed, in a very ill state." Isn't the person hit by overdose of nerve agent ("spraying the liquid on her wrists", far more than combat zone exposure) supposed to be dead in 10-15 minutes (like from VX poisoning, and Novichok is described as 5-10 times more lethal than VX) , not ask for headache pills?

Another point from former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan

"The perfume bottle is now in the hands of the Police. Is it not rather strange that they have not published photos of it, to see if it jogs the memory of a member of the public who saw it somewhere in the last four months, or saw somebody with it? The “perpetrators” know what it looks like and already know the police have it, so that would not give away any dangerous information. You might believe the lockdown of the story and control of the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime, which we should not forget is now murder."

Full text here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

 

The Silence of the Whores

25 Jul, 2018

The mainstream media are making almost no effort today to fit Charlie Rowley’s account of his poisoning into the already ludicrous conspiracy theory being peddled by the government and intelligence agencies.

ITV News gamely inserted the phrase “poisoned by a Russian nerve agent” into their exclusive interview with Charlie Rowley, an interview in which they managed to ask no penetrating questions whatsoever, and of which they only broadcast heavily edited parts. Their own website contains this comment by their journalist Rupert Evelyn:

He said it was unopened, the box it was in was sealed, and that they had to use a knife in order to cut through it.

“That raises the question: if it wasn’t used, is this the only Novichok that exists in this city? And was it the same Novichok used to attack Sergei and Yulia Skripal?

But the information about opening the packet with a knife is not in the linked interview. What Rowley does say in the interview is that the box was still sealed in its cellophane. Presumably it was the cellophane he slit open with a knife.

So how can this fit in to the official government account? Presumably the claim is that Russian agents secretly visited the Skripal house, sprayed novichok on the door handle from this perfume bottle, and then, at an unknown location, disassembled the nozzle from the bottle (Mr Rowley said he had to insert it), then repackaged and re-cellophaned the bottle prior to simply leaving it to be discovered somewhere – presumably somewhere indoors as it still looked new – by Mr Rowley four months later. However it had not been found by anyone else in the interim four months of police, military and security service search.

Frankly, the case for this being the bottle allegedly used to coat the Skripals’ door handle looks wildly improbable. But then the entire government story already looked wildly improbable anyway – to the extent that I literally do not know a single person, even among my more right wing family and friends, who believes it. The reaction of the media, who had shamelessly been promoting the entirely evidence free “the Russians did it” narrative, to Mr Rowley’s extremely awkward piece of news has been to shove it as far as possible down the news agenda and make no real effort to reconcile it.

By his own account, Mr Rowley is not a reliable witness, his memory affected by the “Novichok”. It is not unreasonable to conjecture there may also be other reasons why he is vague about where and how he came into possession of this package of perfume.

The perfume bottle is now in the hands of the Police. Is it not rather strange that they have not published photos of it, to see if it jogs the memory of a member of the public who saw it somewhere in the last four months, or saw somebody with it? The “perpetrators” know what it looks like and already know the police have it, so that would not give away any dangerous information. You might believe the lockdown of the story and control of the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime, which we should not forget is now murder

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

So they go and publish photos of, say for sake of argument, a Chanel no5 bottle, and suddenly everyone starts returning their bottles, and Chanel sue the WIltshire constabulary for damages. Um, how about no?

 

Its pretty clearly been established that this stuff has a delayed effect from working through the skin. Charlie Rowley for example fell unconcious several hours later, but then he had the wherewithal to wash his hands. That it proved nearly immediately fatal for Dawn Sturgess really shouldnt be a surprise. She got a far higher dose than anyone else.

 

Of course Novichok is found on countless occasions in Wiltshire. I too have found dozens of bottle ive thoughtfully discarded in a bin because small children might pick them up. Truly I cant understand why it hasn't happened before.

[Briganza]

 

Panzermann, I dont think you understand. The Novichok that killed Dawn Sturgess wasnt just in the original box. It was in cellophane that hadnt even been opened.

 

So somewhere in Russia they have a plant that yes, probably buys in original bottles. But has the ability to put the stuff in the bottle, make it look original, and wrap it in cellophane. This isnt something that would be done on the fly. It would take preperation and some infrastructure to make it happen.

 

It also implies that somewhere out there in Salisbury, there is a bottle of this shit that was opened. Hopefully in a landfill by now, but who knows?

I do not know about UK, but in Spain guys (mostly African-looking) are selling high-end perfume (in boxes and cellophane etc) almost on every corner in tourist areas, including beaches, for tiny amount of money, obviously it is fakes. So it is all made in Russia?

Excellent, versions and speculations continue to mount - now it is not mysterious Russian KGB female agent throwing away the bottle after spraying Skripal's door handle, but tightly sealed box ("sealed box in a cellophane wrapper") with something looking like unused perfume of known brand, but with it's pump not in place ("he attempted to place the pump dispenser inside the bottle") - male victim conveniently remember this details, but do not know where he found it.... Symptoms are also very strange: " "Within 15 minutes, I believe Dawn said she felt she had a headache and asked me if I had any headache tablets. I had a look around the flat and within that time she said she felt peculiar and needed to lie down in the bath, which at the time I thought was a bit strange. I went into the bathroom and found her in the bath, fully clothed, in a very ill state." Isn't the person hit by overdose of nerve agent ("spraying the liquid on her wrists", far more than combat zone exposure) supposed to be dead in 10-15 minutes (like from VX poisoning, and Novichok is described as 5-10 times more lethal than VX) , not ask for headache pills?

Another point from former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan

"The perfume bottle is now in the hands of the Police. Is it not rather strange that they have not published photos of it, to see if it jogs the memory of a member of the public who saw it somewhere in the last four months, or saw somebody with it? The “perpetrators” know what it looks like and already know the police have it, so that would not give away any dangerous information. You might believe the lockdown of the story and control of the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime, which we should not forget is now murder."

Full text here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

 

The Silence of the Whores

25 Jul, 2018

The mainstream media are making almost no effort today to fit Charlie Rowley’s account of his poisoning into the already ludicrous conspiracy theory being peddled by the government and intelligence agencies.

ITV News gamely inserted the phrase “poisoned by a Russian nerve agent” into their exclusive interview with Charlie Rowley, an interview in which they managed to ask no penetrating questions whatsoever, and of which they only broadcast heavily edited parts. Their own website contains this comment by their journalist Rupert Evelyn:

He said it was unopened, the box it was in was sealed, and that they had to use a knife in order to cut through it.

“That raises the question: if it wasn’t used, is this the only Novichok that exists in this city? And was it the same Novichok used to attack Sergei and Yulia Skripal?

But the information about opening the packet with a knife is not in the linked interview. What Rowley does say in the interview is that the box was still sealed in its cellophane. Presumably it was the cellophane he slit open with a knife.

So how can this fit in to the official government account? Presumably the claim is that Russian agents secretly visited the Skripal house, sprayed novichok on the door handle from this perfume bottle, and then, at an unknown location, disassembled the nozzle from the bottle (Mr Rowley said he had to insert it), then repackaged and re-cellophaned the bottle prior to simply leaving it to be discovered somewhere – presumably somewhere indoors as it still looked new – by Mr Rowley four months later. However it had not been found by anyone else in the interim four months of police, military and security service search.

Frankly, the case for this being the bottle allegedly used to coat the Skripals’ door handle looks wildly improbable. But then the entire government story already looked wildly improbable anyway – to the extent that I literally do not know a single person, even among my more right wing family and friends, who believes it. The reaction of the media, who had shamelessly been promoting the entirely evidence free “the Russians did it” narrative, to Mr Rowley’s extremely awkward piece of news has been to shove it as far as possible down the news agenda and make no real effort to reconcile it.

By his own account, Mr Rowley is not a reliable witness, his memory affected by the “Novichok”. It is not unreasonable to conjecture there may also be other reasons why he is vague about where and how he came into possession of this package of perfume.

The perfume bottle is now in the hands of the Police. Is it not rather strange that they have not published photos of it, to see if it jogs the memory of a member of the public who saw it somewhere in the last four months, or saw somebody with it? The “perpetrators” know what it looks like and already know the police have it, so that would not give away any dangerous information. You might believe the lockdown of the story and control of the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime, which we should not forget is now murder

 

 

Craig Murray is not the UK ambassador to anywhere. So knows as much about this as my dog, and I don't have a dog.

 

Most of your points I covered above.

 

Time will tell.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Briganza