Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.

[JasonJ]

So women don't travel with perfume in their luggage?

 

All except the ones we know apparently.

[Rick]

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I wonder why the British don't put a "special" spilt bottle of Beefeater's Gin say, in the Kremlin or Lenin's tomb.

You are proposing UK to have nice little war against China after deliberately targeting Chinese tourists, who are 90% of people in this places?

Not deadly old chap, just messy. For a long time. It appears strong-arm tactics is what Putin understands.

So where does randomly poisoning tourists fit in with your version of Christianity Rick? It's been a long time since Sunday school for me, but I don't remember being taught that anything along the lines of "A random tourist for an eye" was OK.

 

Not even hurtful old chap. No need for the physical harm your thinking. There are chemicals that can stain. There are chemicals that can emit rotten-egg smells. There are paints that rapidly dry, perfect for graffiti. Anti-Putin graffiti pictures, a stain that looks like Putin with a red circle and a line through it. Union Jack decals with aggressive adhesive. Balloons with a map of England on them. Cheap glass vials emitting skunk-like odors with a photo of Putin enclosed.

Moving on up, is there still that Cold War radio station that broadcasts anti-communism information? Expand it to television and social media. CD's, thumb drives, etc. that contain anti-Putin information/facts. Supporting anti-Putin groups seems like a good idea to me. Upping the ante, there are economic sanctions that are possible; such as not buying Russian exports and refusing international events to them.

 

I don't worry about foreign affairs as nearly much as many on this Grate Site do, but Russia is not the real threat to the U.S. Liberalism is the main threat to the U.S. Russia and China are way down the list. If the U.S., the U.K. and the rest of Europe is serious about Russia there are‹actions ‹that can be done if said countries are serious without the brutality Putin likes. From my view, Putin killed at least two British citizens and nothing of consequence is being done that I know of.

 

 

Wait until someone uses this crap in your country in some non contentious place, like Time Square, or Washington for example. You may think otherwise.

If you tolerate this, you will be next. Its that simple. You think the US will get dispensation just because of what it is? Pearl Harbour and WTC would indicate otherwise.

 

As for whats being done, we are implimenting a British Magnitsky act. But you can put down the slow pace of it to British Bureaucracy in action. I wouldnt be surprised if they only just got around to repealing the red flag to be carried in front of Automobiles.

 

 

No, im not in favour of using it on tourists or innocent people. But in my more lurid moments I think how much fun it would be to smear some of this over the saddle of Putins Presidential Harley Trike. To watch the hard man urinate himself and babble like an idiot in front of hard men has something of a poetic justice to it.

 

Which is why I'm not overly worried about what Russia doing here what has been done to the U.K.

[Briganza]

 

Roman, I take it you never went through Duty Free stores on the way from Russia?

People bring all sorts of trophies, even just looking at colleagues travelling. To claim someone carrying perfume in luggage from Russia would be unusual is really just like saying nobody would carry wine to France (did do several times) or high grade alcohol to Russia etc.

 

Please try to find less absurd lines of defense, right now it looks a bit like "not a step back"

See above, "Somebody arriving from Russia with bottle of perfume in gift wrap (or even opened one) is like somebody arriving to Russia with bottle of vodka. Yes one could invent story for this, but it is not common = suspicious." No need to "defense", just showing how absurd is another UK version before they invent new one (like it was done with flowers on the grave, car ventilation system, porridge, something in Yulia Skripal's luggage surely planted by KGB agents in her Moscow flat and so on). We only need to wait until next Trump's visit or Brexit talks to see another "highly likely" version.

 

If the UK government had made up this concept wouldn't it have been more credible to use your example and say put it in a toothpaste tube.

 

Have you ever traveled outside Russia? Your concept of what happens at airports and traveling is interesting and detached from reality.

 

Who said the perfume was gift wrap, which would draw attention to it. Someone arriving for an overnight or two day trip would have hand luggage, no hassle with collecting luggage, could take at least an hour of your arrival if not more (first in que). Small bag, smart dress, look litle business type, does not draw attention, not stopped at customs. Even if you are a quick search will show up what? A bottle of perfume not in a packet. Next. No customs as you get on flight but security and as there is no container over 100ml no check.

 

The only people who have come up with outlandish claims are Russian and Lavrov who is working on his next career as a children's story writer.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I wonder why the British don't put a "special" spilt bottle of Beefeater's Gin say, in the Kremlin or Lenin's tomb.

You are proposing UK to have nice little war against China after deliberately targeting Chinese tourists, who are 90% of people in this places?

Not deadly old chap, just messy. For a long time. It appears strong-arm tactics is what Putin understands.

So where does randomly poisoning tourists fit in with your version of Christianity Rick? It's been a long time since Sunday school for me, but I don't remember being taught that anything along the lines of "A random tourist for an eye" was OK.

 

Not even hurtful old chap. No need for the physical harm your thinking. There are chemicals that can stain. There are chemicals that can emit rotten-egg smells. There are paints that rapidly dry, perfect for graffiti. Anti-Putin graffiti pictures, a stain that looks like Putin with a red circle and a line through it. Union Jack decals with aggressive adhesive. Balloons with a map of England on them. Cheap glass vials emitting skunk-like odors with a photo of Putin enclosed.

Moving on up, is there still that Cold War radio station that broadcasts anti-communism information? Expand it to television and social media. CD's, thumb drives, etc. that contain anti-Putin information/facts. Supporting anti-Putin groups seems like a good idea to me. Upping the ante, there are economic sanctions that are possible; such as not buying Russian exports and refusing international events to them.

 

I don't worry about foreign affairs as nearly much as many on this Grate Site do, but Russia is not the real threat to the U.S. Liberalism is the main threat to the U.S. Russia and China are way down the list. If the U.S., the U.K. and the rest of Europe is serious about Russia there are‹actions ‹that can be done if said countries are serious without the brutality Putin likes. From my view, Putin killed at least two British citizens and nothing of consequence is being done that I know of.

 

 

Wait until someone uses this crap in your country in some non contentious place, like Time Square, or Washington for example. You may think otherwise.

If you tolerate this, you will be next. Its that simple. You think the US will get dispensation just because of what it is? Pearl Harbour and WTC would indicate otherwise.

 

As for whats being done, we are implimenting a British Magnitsky act. But you can put down the slow pace of it to British Bureaucracy in action. I wouldnt be surprised if they only just got around to repealing the red flag to be carried in front of Automobiles.

 

 

No, im not in favour of using it on tourists or innocent people. But in my more lurid moments I think how much fun it would be to smear some of this over the saddle of Putins Presidential Harley Trike. To watch the hard man urinate himself and babble like an idiot in front of hard men has something of a poetic justice to it.

 

Which is why I'm not overly worried about what Russia doing here what has been done to the U.K.

 

 

Why?

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/19/uk/novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified-intl/index.html

London (CNN)British police have identified two suspects in the poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN Thursday.

The source said investigators have been combing through months of surveillance camera footage from UK airports and from Salisbury, where the Skripals were poisoned in an attack the British government blames on Russia.

Using facial recognition technology, authorities discovered two "fresh identities" -- individuals not known to have been spies or used in other attacks -- the source added.

Investigators have crosschecked that information with the manifest of the commercial flight on which the suspects were believed to have left Britain soon after the attack in March. Those names were aliases, the source said, and police have not yet revealed them.

Britain's Press Association news agency also reported Thursday that police had identified suspects in the case. London's Metropolitan Police declined to comment.

[Briganza]

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/19/uk/novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified-intl/index.html

 

London (CNN)British police have identified two suspects in the poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN Thursday.

The source said investigators have been combing through months of surveillance camera footage from UK airports and from Salisbury, where the Skripals were poisoned in an attack the British government blames on Russia.

Using facial recognition technology, authorities discovered two "fresh identities" -- individuals not known to have been spies or used in other attacks -- the source added.

Investigators have crosschecked that information with the manifest of the commercial flight on which the suspects were believed to have left Britain soon after the attack in March. Those names were aliases, the source said, and police have not yet revealed them.

Britain's Press Association news agency also reported Thursday that police had identified suspects in the case. London's Metropolitan Police declined to comment.

 

Secret EU arrest warrants. Next time they travel outside Russia they may have an interview without coffee in Cyprus.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/02/22/russian-hooligan-arrested-attempted-homicide-england-fan-euro/

 

 

A Russian hooligan wanted for the “attempted homicide” of an England fan at the 2016 European Championship was arrested on Wednesday following a continent-wide manhunt.

[Roman Alymov]

If the UK government had made up this concept wouldn't it have been more credible to use your example and say put it in a toothpaste tube.

 

How often are people walking the streets in UK with a toothpaste tube in pocket?

 

Have you ever traveled outside Russia? Your concept of what happens at airports and traveling is interesting and detached from reality.

 

Who said the perfume was gift wrap, which would draw attention to it. Someone arriving for an overnight or two day trip would have hand luggage, no hassle with collecting luggage, could take at least an hour of your arrival if not more (first in que). Small bag, smart dress, look litle business type, does not draw attention, not stopped at customs. Even if you are a quick search will show up what? A bottle of perfume not in a packet. Next. No customs as you get on flight but security and as there is no container over 100ml no check.

Back in 2010 when returning from business trip to London i was stopped in Heathrow by two nice Indian-looking security ladies who told me my back is looking suspicious for somebody looking on passengers walking through IR camera - so i spend about 20 minutes with them practicing my English while "authorized person" (white gentlemen) arrived to check my back to find it is really nothing dangerous there except may be trace of backpack. Not some kind of problem for me as regular traveler, but surely not the kind of attention person on clandestine mission would want.

[JWB]

 

If the UK government had made up this concept wouldn't it have been more credible to use your example and say put it in a toothpaste tube.

 

How often are people walking the streets in UK with a toothpaste tube in pocket?

 

Have you ever traveled outside Russia? Your concept of what happens at airports and traveling is interesting and detached from reality.

 

Who said the perfume was gift wrap, which would draw attention to it. Someone arriving for an overnight or two day trip would have hand luggage, no hassle with collecting luggage, could take at least an hour of your arrival if not more (first in que). Small bag, smart dress, look litle business type, does not draw attention, not stopped at customs. Even if you are a quick search will show up what? A bottle of perfume not in a packet. Next. No customs as you get on flight but security and as there is no container over 100ml no check.

Back in 2010 when returning from business trip to London i was stopped in Heathrow by two nice Indian-looking security ladies who told me my back is looking suspicious for somebody looking on passengers walking through IR camera - so i spend about 20 minutes with them practicing my English while "authorized person" (white gentlemen) arrived to check my back to find it is really nothing dangerous there except may be trace of backpack. Not some kind of problem for me as regular traveler, but surely not the kind of attention person on clandestine mission would want.

 

Did they search you for a tiny vial?

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

 

If the UK government had made up this concept wouldn't it have been more credible to use your example and say put it in a toothpaste tube.

 

How often are people walking the streets in UK with a toothpaste tube in pocket?

 

Have you ever traveled outside Russia? Your concept of what happens at airports and traveling is interesting and detached from reality.

 

Who said the perfume was gift wrap, which would draw attention to it. Someone arriving for an overnight or two day trip would have hand luggage, no hassle with collecting luggage, could take at least an hour of your arrival if not more (first in que). Small bag, smart dress, look litle business type, does not draw attention, not stopped at customs. Even if you are a quick search will show up what? A bottle of perfume not in a packet. Next. No customs as you get on flight but security and as there is no container over 100ml no check.

Back in 2010 when returning from business trip to London i was stopped in Heathrow by two nice Indian-looking security ladies who told me my back is looking suspicious for somebody looking on passengers walking through IR camera - so i spend about 20 minutes with them practicing my English while "authorized person" (white gentlemen) arrived to check my back to find it is really nothing dangerous there except may be trace of backpack. Not some kind of problem for me as regular traveler, but surely not the kind of attention person on clandestine mission would want.

 

Did they search you for a tiny vial?

 

 

A Golden Gun is my guess.

[Stuart Galbraith]

An ex British Army intelligence officer made a good point. He said he rather doubted it was a perfume bottle, because that would create an aerosol and that would require full protective kit. He also said at a minimum you would want gloves, and speculate that may be what the guys in full protective kit are doing in Queen Elizabeth Park in Salisbury.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/18/novichok-poisonings-police-search-salisbury-park-visited-by-couple

[Roman Alymov]

An ex British Army intelligence officer made a good point. He said he rather doubted it was a perfume bottle, because that would create an aerosol and that would require full protective kit. He also said at a minimum you would want gloves, and speculate that may be what the guys in full protective kit are doing in Queen Elizabeth Park in Salisbury.

 

Excellent, not only me saying perfume bottle is hardly suitable for the purpose (not mentioning not matching previous British claims). Waiting for new versions to come.

 

 

Who said the perfume was gift wrap, which would draw attention to it.

One of our fellow Forum Members: "Or in a box as a gift. Diplomatic bag would probably bring more scrutiny and contact with the embassy staff who may be under surveillance... Private citizen bringing in gift-wrapped perfume? No problem at all." Quite logical in theory, as unwrapped bottle prone to curious customs officer spraying it duting random check, with all consequences attached.

[JWB]

It is not different version. It is different speculation.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Yeah, we are on version 2, whereas the Russian Federation is up to version 32. That kind of thing.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Keep calm and carry on in action.

 

https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2636381/amesbury-incident-parents-urged-to-make-sure-children-heed-advice/

With schools about to break up for the summer parents are being asked to remind their children to leave discarded objects alone.

The Chief Medical Officer at Public Health England said last week that anyone coming across any discarded objects should leave them alone.

Now PHE staff are repeating that message and urging parents to talk to their children ahead of the upcoming summer holidays about the advice.

Mike Wade is Deputy Director for Health Protection at PHE South West:

"While the risk to the general public remains low it is also worth repeating our advice that at this time you should not pick up any items you may find while out and about. In particular you should not touch containers, syringes, needles, cosmetics or similar objects, made of materials such as metal, plastic or glass."

Tracy Daszkiewicz, Wiltshire Council's Director of Public Health, said:

"Please do take the time to tell your children that the best thing they can do at this time is, if you didn't drop it, don't pick it up."

[Roman Alymov]

Yeah, we are on version 2, whereas the Russian Federation is up to version 32. That kind of thing.

As far as i remember, top of mind list:

1)Poisoned flowers on the grave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html

2)Item planted into Yulia Skripal's luggage The military-grade nerve toxin that poisoned former Russian agent Sergei Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-poison/nerve-agent-planted-in-luggage-of-russian-agents-daughter-the-telegraph-idUSKCN1GS0NT

3) " Police investigating claims Russian spy Sergei Skripal’s £1 bag of porridge was poisoned by daughter Yulia’s ‘female pal’ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5946251/russian-spy-sergei-skripal-poisoning-claims/

4) Car ventilation system " UK officials had a better picture of how the attack was carried out, saying that the Skripals could have been exposed to the substance through the BMW’s ventilation system." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/18/ex-russian-spy-may-have-been-poisoned-by-cars-ventilation-says-us-media

 

It is already four, not two. By the way for your convenience Rus Foreign affairs ministry ilisted some of UK versions (up to May 2018, no idea how complete it is) http://www.mid.ru/o-situacii-vokrug-otravlenia-s.skripala-i-ego-doceri-v-velikobritanii/-/asset_publisher/miIpunj3lj96/content/id/3233904

 

 

 

British versions and speculations concerning the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury on 4 March 2018

The substance used and the delivery method

1. Sergei and Yulia Skripal might have been poisoned with a synthetic opioid drug substance fentanyl. Salisbury Journal, 5 March 2018

2. The poison might have been mixed with drinks or food either in “Zizzi” restaurant or in “The Mill” pub. The Sun, 6 March 2018

3. The poison could have been sprayed by the attackers on the street. The Sun, 6 March 2018

4. The Skripals were poisoned by a hybrid version of thallium. The Sun, 6 March 2018

5. The Skripals were poisoned by sarin slipped by Kremlin-linked assassins into Sergei Skripal’s present in Moscow. The Sun, 9 March 2018

6. The Skripals could have been poisoned by a bouquet of fresh flowers which they laid on the grave of Sergei Skripal’s late wife. Daily Mail, 10 March 2018

7. The poison was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s car door handle. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

8. The nerve agent was concealed in an item of clothing, a gift or cosmetics in Yulia Skripal’s baggage. Daily Telegraph, 15 March 2018

9. The nerve agent was delivered by a drone. Daily Star, 18 March 2018

10. The nerve agent was introduced to Sergei Skripal’s car ventilation system. Daily Mail, 19 March 2018

11. The Skripals first came into contact with the nerve agent from their front door. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing, 27 March 2018

12. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s front door by a Russian hit squad. Daily Telegraph, 28 March.

13. The nerve agent was brought to Britain in a bag with buckwheat, bay leaves and spices, by Yulia Skripal’s acquaintance, who was coming to London by another flight. The Sun, 1 April 2018

14. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s door handle as a gel. Considering the rainy weather, the Skripals may have got it on their shoes and spread it further around Salisbury than previously thought. Daily Mail, 3 May 2018

 

Motive

15. Yulia Skripal was poisoned for her comment against Vladimir Putin on Facebook. The Sun, 6 March 2018

16. Sergei Skripal regularly met with Kremlin officials at the Russian Embassy. The Sun, 9 March 2018

17. Sergei Skripal was poisoned for using his contacts in the intelligence community to work for private security firms. The Independent, 8 March 2018

18. «Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

19. «We have information indicating Russian intelligence service interest in the Skripals, dating back at least as far as 2013, when e-mail accounts belonging to Yulia Skripal were targeted by GRU cyber specialists…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Origin

20. The poison was produced in the Russian government’s secret Yasenevo complex. The Sun, 9 March 2018

21. «The Government have concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for this act…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

22. «…Porton Down made clear that this was a military-grade Novichok nerve agent produced in Russia». FCO tweet, 22 March 2018

23. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, asked whether he is certain that the nerve agent was produced by Russia: «Let me be clear with you… When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the Laboratory… They do [have the samples]. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt…» Boris Johnson’s interview with Deutsche Welle, 19 March 2018

24. Chief Executive of Porton Down laboratory Gary Aitkenhead said the poison had been identified as a military-grade novichok nerve agent, but pointed out it was not possible for scientists to say where it had been created. Sky News, 3 April 2018.

25. «In the 1980s the Soviet Union developed a new class of ‘fourth generation’ nerve agents, known as Novichoks. The key institute responsible for this work was a branch of the State Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology at Shikhany near Volgograd… During the 2000s, Russia commenced a programme to test means of delivering chemical warfare agents and to train personnel from special units in the use of these weapons. This programme subsequently included investigation of ways of delivering nerve agents, including by application to door handles…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Properties of the poison

26. The nerve agent used in Salisbury would have a very limited lifetime in the UK. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

27. The nerve agent used to poison the Skripals was specially designed to take about four hours to kill them so the assassins could flee Britain. Daily Mail, 7 April 2018

28. The assassin failed to understand the gel nerve agent needed dry conditions to be fully potent as it dissolves in water. The Sun, 14 April 2018

 

Identification of suspects

29. British security agencies have red-flagged an individual who arrived at Heathrow on the Aeroflot flight 2570 at 14.32 on March 3 and returned to Moscow several hours later, raising questions as to the purpose of such short visit. Daily Mail, 3 April 2018

30. The Russian national suspected of planning the attack on the Skripals is living undercover in Britain and leads a six-strong hit squad known as “The Cleaners”. They use false identities from an EU state. Sunday Mirror, 7 April 2018

31. Yulia Skripal’s fiancé Stepan Vikeev and his mother had a role in the Skripal poisoning. Mail on Sunday, 21 April 2018

32. Counter terror police have identified a Russian assassin believed to be connected to the Salisbury poisoning. He is a 54 year-old former FSB spy codenamed “Gordon” and is thought to use the cover name Mihails Savickis as well as two other aliases. Police fear he already left Britain and they may never have a chance to question him. Sunday People, 22 April 2018

33. Britain’s intelligence services have compiled a list of key suspects involved in the attack in Salisbury. Daily Mail, 22 April 2018

34. «Johnny Mercer: Quickly on Salisbury, Sir Mark, do you know who the individuals are who poisoned the Skripals? Sir Mark Sedwill: Not yet.» Sir Mark Sedwill’s oral evidence in the Commons Defence Committee, 1 May 2018

 

Other

35. The Skripals could suffer long-tern brain damage and may never fully recover. Financial Times, 22 March 2018

36. The RAF listening post in Cyprus intercepted two messages sent from Syria to Moscow on 3 and 4 March, which included the phrases “the package has been delivered” and that two people have “made a successful egress”. They were flagged as relevant to the Salisbury poisoning. Sunday Express, 8 April 2018; The Times, 9 April 2018.

 

 

Could you direct me to the list of 32 versions of Russian Federation please?

[Briganza]

 

Yeah, we are on version 2, whereas the Russian Federation is up to version 32. That kind of thing.

As far as i remember, top of mind list:

1)Poisoned flowers on the grave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html

2)Item planted into Yulia Skripal's luggage The military-grade nerve toxin that poisoned former Russian agent Sergei Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-poison/nerve-agent-planted-in-luggage-of-russian-agents-daughter-the-telegraph-idUSKCN1GS0NT

3) " Police investigating claims Russian spy Sergei Skripal’s £1 bag of porridge was poisoned by daughter Yulia’s ‘female pal’ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5946251/russian-spy-sergei-skripal-poisoning-claims/

4) Car ventilation system " UK officials had a better picture of how the attack was carried out, saying that the Skripals could have been exposed to the substance through the BMW’s ventilation system." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/18/ex-russian-spy-may-have-been-poisoned-by-cars-ventilation-says-us-media

 

It is already four, not two. By the way for your convenience Rus Foreign affairs ministry ilisted some of UK versions (up to May 2018, no idea how complete it is) http://www.mid.ru/o-situacii-vokrug-otravlenia-s.skripala-i-ego-doceri-v-velikobritanii/-/asset_publisher/miIpunj3lj96/content/id/3233904

 

 

 

British versions and speculations concerning the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury on 4 March 2018

The substance used and the delivery method

1. Sergei and Yulia Skripal might have been poisoned with a synthetic opioid drug substance fentanyl. Salisbury Journal, 5 March 2018

2. The poison might have been mixed with drinks or food either in “Zizzi” restaurant or in “The Mill” pub. The Sun, 6 March 2018

3. The poison could have been sprayed by the attackers on the street. The Sun, 6 March 2018

4. The Skripals were poisoned by a hybrid version of thallium. The Sun, 6 March 2018

5. The Skripals were poisoned by sarin slipped by Kremlin-linked assassins into Sergei Skripal’s present in Moscow. The Sun, 9 March 2018

6. The Skripals could have been poisoned by a bouquet of fresh flowers which they laid on the grave of Sergei Skripal’s late wife. Daily Mail, 10 March 2018

7. The poison was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s car door handle. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

8. The nerve agent was concealed in an item of clothing, a gift or cosmetics in Yulia Skripal’s baggage. Daily Telegraph, 15 March 2018

9. The nerve agent was delivered by a drone. Daily Star, 18 March 2018

10. The nerve agent was introduced to Sergei Skripal’s car ventilation system. Daily Mail, 19 March 2018

11. The Skripals first came into contact with the nerve agent from their front door. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing, 27 March 2018

12. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s front door by a Russian hit squad. Daily Telegraph, 28 March.

13. The nerve agent was brought to Britain in a bag with buckwheat, bay leaves and spices, by Yulia Skripal’s acquaintance, who was coming to London by another flight. The Sun, 1 April 2018

14. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s door handle as a gel. Considering the rainy weather, the Skripals may have got it on their shoes and spread it further around Salisbury than previously thought. Daily Mail, 3 May 2018

 

Motive

15. Yulia Skripal was poisoned for her comment against Vladimir Putin on Facebook. The Sun, 6 March 2018

16. Sergei Skripal regularly met with Kremlin officials at the Russian Embassy. The Sun, 9 March 2018

17. Sergei Skripal was poisoned for using his contacts in the intelligence community to work for private security firms. The Independent, 8 March 2018

18. «Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

19. «We have information indicating Russian intelligence service interest in the Skripals, dating back at least as far as 2013, when e-mail accounts belonging to Yulia Skripal were targeted by GRU cyber specialists…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Origin

20. The poison was produced in the Russian government’s secret Yasenevo complex. The Sun, 9 March 2018

21. «The Government have concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for this act…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

22. «…Porton Down made clear that this was a military-grade Novichok nerve agent produced in Russia». FCO tweet, 22 March 2018

23. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, asked whether he is certain that the nerve agent was produced by Russia: «Let me be clear with you… When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the Laboratory… They do [have the samples]. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt…» Boris Johnson’s interview with Deutsche Welle, 19 March 2018

24. Chief Executive of Porton Down laboratory Gary Aitkenhead said the poison had been identified as a military-grade novichok nerve agent, but pointed out it was not possible for scientists to say where it had been created. Sky News, 3 April 2018.

25. «In the 1980s the Soviet Union developed a new class of ‘fourth generation’ nerve agents, known as Novichoks. The key institute responsible for this work was a branch of the State Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology at Shikhany near Volgograd… During the 2000s, Russia commenced a programme to test means of delivering chemical warfare agents and to train personnel from special units in the use of these weapons. This programme subsequently included investigation of ways of delivering nerve agents, including by application to door handles…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Properties of the poison

26. The nerve agent used in Salisbury would have a very limited lifetime in the UK. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

27. The nerve agent used to poison the Skripals was specially designed to take about four hours to kill them so the assassins could flee Britain. Daily Mail, 7 April 2018

28. The assassin failed to understand the gel nerve agent needed dry conditions to be fully potent as it dissolves in water. The Sun, 14 April 2018

 

Identification of suspects

29. British security agencies have red-flagged an individual who arrived at Heathrow on the Aeroflot flight 2570 at 14.32 on March 3 and returned to Moscow several hours later, raising questions as to the purpose of such short visit. Daily Mail, 3 April 2018

30. The Russian national suspected of planning the attack on the Skripals is living undercover in Britain and leads a six-strong hit squad known as “The Cleaners”. They use false identities from an EU state. Sunday Mirror, 7 April 2018

31. Yulia Skripal’s fiancé Stepan Vikeev and his mother had a role in the Skripal poisoning. Mail on Sunday, 21 April 2018

32. Counter terror police have identified a Russian assassin believed to be connected to the Salisbury poisoning. He is a 54 year-old former FSB spy codenamed “Gordon” and is thought to use the cover name Mihails Savickis as well as two other aliases. Police fear he already left Britain and they may never have a chance to question him. Sunday People, 22 April 2018

33. Britain’s intelligence services have compiled a list of key suspects involved in the attack in Salisbury. Daily Mail, 22 April 2018

34. «Johnny Mercer: Quickly on Salisbury, Sir Mark, do you know who the individuals are who poisoned the Skripals? Sir Mark Sedwill: Not yet.» Sir Mark Sedwill’s oral evidence in the Commons Defence Committee, 1 May 2018

 

Other

35. The Skripals could suffer long-tern brain damage and may never fully recover. Financial Times, 22 March 2018

36. The RAF listening post in Cyprus intercepted two messages sent from Syria to Moscow on 3 and 4 March, which included the phrases “the package has been delivered” and that two people have “made a successful egress”. They were flagged as relevant to the Salisbury poisoning. Sunday Express, 8 April 2018; The Times, 9 April 2018.

 

 

Could you direct me to the list of 32 versions of Russian Federation please?

 

I must be missing something, which of those was put out by the UK government and which was media speculation. You must remember that the media does its own thing and writes what it thinks will sell.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Yeah, we are on version 2, whereas the Russian Federation is up to version 32. That kind of thing.

As far as i remember, top of mind list:

1)Poisoned flowers on the grave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html

2)Item planted into Yulia Skripal's luggage The military-grade nerve toxin that poisoned former Russian agent Sergei Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-poison/nerve-agent-planted-in-luggage-of-russian-agents-daughter-the-telegraph-idUSKCN1GS0NT

3) " Police investigating claims Russian spy Sergei Skripal’s £1 bag of porridge was poisoned by daughter Yulia’s ‘female pal’ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5946251/russian-spy-sergei-skripal-poisoning-claims/

4) Car ventilation system " UK officials had a better picture of how the attack was carried out, saying that the Skripals could have been exposed to the substance through the BMW’s ventilation system." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/18/ex-russian-spy-may-have-been-poisoned-by-cars-ventilation-says-us-media

 

It is already four, not two. By the way for your convenience Rus Foreign affairs ministry ilisted some of UK versions (up to May 2018, no idea how complete it is) http://www.mid.ru/o-situacii-vokrug-otravlenia-s.skripala-i-ego-doceri-v-velikobritanii/-/asset_publisher/miIpunj3lj96/content/id/3233904

 

 

 

British versions and speculations concerning the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury on 4 March 2018

The substance used and the delivery method

1. Sergei and Yulia Skripal might have been poisoned with a synthetic opioid drug substance fentanyl. Salisbury Journal, 5 March 2018

2. The poison might have been mixed with drinks or food either in “Zizzi” restaurant or in “The Mill” pub. The Sun, 6 March 2018

3. The poison could have been sprayed by the attackers on the street. The Sun, 6 March 2018

4. The Skripals were poisoned by a hybrid version of thallium. The Sun, 6 March 2018

5. The Skripals were poisoned by sarin slipped by Kremlin-linked assassins into Sergei Skripal’s present in Moscow. The Sun, 9 March 2018

6. The Skripals could have been poisoned by a bouquet of fresh flowers which they laid on the grave of Sergei Skripal’s late wife. Daily Mail, 10 March 2018

7. The poison was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s car door handle. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

8. The nerve agent was concealed in an item of clothing, a gift or cosmetics in Yulia Skripal’s baggage. Daily Telegraph, 15 March 2018

9. The nerve agent was delivered by a drone. Daily Star, 18 March 2018

10. The nerve agent was introduced to Sergei Skripal’s car ventilation system. Daily Mail, 19 March 2018

11. The Skripals first came into contact with the nerve agent from their front door. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing, 27 March 2018

12. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s front door by a Russian hit squad. Daily Telegraph, 28 March.

13. The nerve agent was brought to Britain in a bag with buckwheat, bay leaves and spices, by Yulia Skripal’s acquaintance, who was coming to London by another flight. The Sun, 1 April 2018

14. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s door handle as a gel. Considering the rainy weather, the Skripals may have got it on their shoes and spread it further around Salisbury than previously thought. Daily Mail, 3 May 2018

 

Motive

15. Yulia Skripal was poisoned for her comment against Vladimir Putin on Facebook. The Sun, 6 March 2018

16. Sergei Skripal regularly met with Kremlin officials at the Russian Embassy. The Sun, 9 March 2018

17. Sergei Skripal was poisoned for using his contacts in the intelligence community to work for private security firms. The Independent, 8 March 2018

18. «Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

19. «We have information indicating Russian intelligence service interest in the Skripals, dating back at least as far as 2013, when e-mail accounts belonging to Yulia Skripal were targeted by GRU cyber specialists…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Origin

20. The poison was produced in the Russian government’s secret Yasenevo complex. The Sun, 9 March 2018

21. «The Government have concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for this act…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

22. «…Porton Down made clear that this was a military-grade Novichok nerve agent produced in Russia». FCO tweet, 22 March 2018

23. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, asked whether he is certain that the nerve agent was produced by Russia: «Let me be clear with you… When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the Laboratory… They do [have the samples]. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt…» Boris Johnson’s interview with Deutsche Welle, 19 March 2018

24. Chief Executive of Porton Down laboratory Gary Aitkenhead said the poison had been identified as a military-grade novichok nerve agent, but pointed out it was not possible for scientists to say where it had been created. Sky News, 3 April 2018.

25. «In the 1980s the Soviet Union developed a new class of ‘fourth generation’ nerve agents, known as Novichoks. The key institute responsible for this work was a branch of the State Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology at Shikhany near Volgograd… During the 2000s, Russia commenced a programme to test means of delivering chemical warfare agents and to train personnel from special units in the use of these weapons. This programme subsequently included investigation of ways of delivering nerve agents, including by application to door handles…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Properties of the poison

26. The nerve agent used in Salisbury would have a very limited lifetime in the UK. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

27. The nerve agent used to poison the Skripals was specially designed to take about four hours to kill them so the assassins could flee Britain. Daily Mail, 7 April 2018

28. The assassin failed to understand the gel nerve agent needed dry conditions to be fully potent as it dissolves in water. The Sun, 14 April 2018

 

Identification of suspects

29. British security agencies have red-flagged an individual who arrived at Heathrow on the Aeroflot flight 2570 at 14.32 on March 3 and returned to Moscow several hours later, raising questions as to the purpose of such short visit. Daily Mail, 3 April 2018

30. The Russian national suspected of planning the attack on the Skripals is living undercover in Britain and leads a six-strong hit squad known as “The Cleaners”. They use false identities from an EU state. Sunday Mirror, 7 April 2018

31. Yulia Skripal’s fiancé Stepan Vikeev and his mother had a role in the Skripal poisoning. Mail on Sunday, 21 April 2018

32. Counter terror police have identified a Russian assassin believed to be connected to the Salisbury poisoning. He is a 54 year-old former FSB spy codenamed “Gordon” and is thought to use the cover name Mihails Savickis as well as two other aliases. Police fear he already left Britain and they may never have a chance to question him. Sunday People, 22 April 2018

33. Britain’s intelligence services have compiled a list of key suspects involved in the attack in Salisbury. Daily Mail, 22 April 2018

34. «Johnny Mercer: Quickly on Salisbury, Sir Mark, do you know who the individuals are who poisoned the Skripals? Sir Mark Sedwill: Not yet.» Sir Mark Sedwill’s oral evidence in the Commons Defence Committee, 1 May 2018

 

Other

35. The Skripals could suffer long-tern brain damage and may never fully recover. Financial Times, 22 March 2018

36. The RAF listening post in Cyprus intercepted two messages sent from Syria to Moscow on 3 and 4 March, which included the phrases “the package has been delivered” and that two people have “made a successful egress”. They were flagged as relevant to the Salisbury poisoning. Sunday Express, 8 April 2018; The Times, 9 April 2018.

 

 

Could you direct me to the list of 32 versions of Russian Federation please?

 

 

I dont need to Roman, you have thoughtfully listed very single one of them over the past 4 months.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, we are on version 2, whereas the Russian Federation is up to version 32. That kind of thing.

As far as i remember, top of mind list:

1)Poisoned flowers on the grave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html

2)Item planted into Yulia Skripal's luggage The military-grade nerve toxin that poisoned former Russian agent Sergei Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-poison/nerve-agent-planted-in-luggage-of-russian-agents-daughter-the-telegraph-idUSKCN1GS0NT

3) " Police investigating claims Russian spy Sergei Skripal’s £1 bag of porridge was poisoned by daughter Yulia’s ‘female pal’ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5946251/russian-spy-sergei-skripal-poisoning-claims/

4) Car ventilation system " UK officials had a better picture of how the attack was carried out, saying that the Skripals could have been exposed to the substance through the BMW’s ventilation system." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/18/ex-russian-spy-may-have-been-poisoned-by-cars-ventilation-says-us-media

 

It is already four, not two. By the way for your convenience Rus Foreign affairs ministry ilisted some of UK versions (up to May 2018, no idea how complete it is) http://www.mid.ru/o-situacii-vokrug-otravlenia-s.skripala-i-ego-doceri-v-velikobritanii/-/asset_publisher/miIpunj3lj96/content/id/3233904

 

 

 

British versions and speculations concerning the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury on 4 March 2018

The substance used and the delivery method

1. Sergei and Yulia Skripal might have been poisoned with a synthetic opioid drug substance fentanyl. Salisbury Journal, 5 March 2018

2. The poison might have been mixed with drinks or food either in “Zizzi” restaurant or in “The Mill” pub. The Sun, 6 March 2018

3. The poison could have been sprayed by the attackers on the street. The Sun, 6 March 2018

4. The Skripals were poisoned by a hybrid version of thallium. The Sun, 6 March 2018

5. The Skripals were poisoned by sarin slipped by Kremlin-linked assassins into Sergei Skripal’s present in Moscow. The Sun, 9 March 2018

6. The Skripals could have been poisoned by a bouquet of fresh flowers which they laid on the grave of Sergei Skripal’s late wife. Daily Mail, 10 March 2018

7. The poison was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s car door handle. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

8. The nerve agent was concealed in an item of clothing, a gift or cosmetics in Yulia Skripal’s baggage. Daily Telegraph, 15 March 2018

9. The nerve agent was delivered by a drone. Daily Star, 18 March 2018

10. The nerve agent was introduced to Sergei Skripal’s car ventilation system. Daily Mail, 19 March 2018

11. The Skripals first came into contact with the nerve agent from their front door. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing, 27 March 2018

12. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s front door by a Russian hit squad. Daily Telegraph, 28 March.

13. The nerve agent was brought to Britain in a bag with buckwheat, bay leaves and spices, by Yulia Skripal’s acquaintance, who was coming to London by another flight. The Sun, 1 April 2018

14. The nerve agent was smeared on Sergei Skripal’s door handle as a gel. Considering the rainy weather, the Skripals may have got it on their shoes and spread it further around Salisbury than previously thought. Daily Mail, 3 May 2018

 

Motive

15. Yulia Skripal was poisoned for her comment against Vladimir Putin on Facebook. The Sun, 6 March 2018

16. Sergei Skripal regularly met with Kremlin officials at the Russian Embassy. The Sun, 9 March 2018

17. Sergei Skripal was poisoned for using his contacts in the intelligence community to work for private security firms. The Independent, 8 March 2018

18. «Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

19. «We have information indicating Russian intelligence service interest in the Skripals, dating back at least as far as 2013, when e-mail accounts belonging to Yulia Skripal were targeted by GRU cyber specialists…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Origin

20. The poison was produced in the Russian government’s secret Yasenevo complex. The Sun, 9 March 2018

21. «The Government have concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for this act…». Statement by Theresa May in the House of Commons, 12 March 2018

22. «…Porton Down made clear that this was a military-grade Novichok nerve agent produced in Russia». FCO tweet, 22 March 2018

23. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, asked whether he is certain that the nerve agent was produced by Russia: «Let me be clear with you… When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the Laboratory… They do [have the samples]. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt…» Boris Johnson’s interview with Deutsche Welle, 19 March 2018

24. Chief Executive of Porton Down laboratory Gary Aitkenhead said the poison had been identified as a military-grade novichok nerve agent, but pointed out it was not possible for scientists to say where it had been created. Sky News, 3 April 2018.

25. «In the 1980s the Soviet Union developed a new class of ‘fourth generation’ nerve agents, known as Novichoks. The key institute responsible for this work was a branch of the State Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology at Shikhany near Volgograd… During the 2000s, Russia commenced a programme to test means of delivering chemical warfare agents and to train personnel from special units in the use of these weapons. This programme subsequently included investigation of ways of delivering nerve agents, including by application to door handles…». Sir Mark Sedwill’s letter to Jens Stoltenberg, 13 April 2018

 

Properties of the poison

26. The nerve agent used in Salisbury would have a very limited lifetime in the UK. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution. Daily Mail, 13 March 2018

27. The nerve agent used to poison the Skripals was specially designed to take about four hours to kill them so the assassins could flee Britain. Daily Mail, 7 April 2018

28. The assassin failed to understand the gel nerve agent needed dry conditions to be fully potent as it dissolves in water. The Sun, 14 April 2018

 

Identification of suspects

29. British security agencies have red-flagged an individual who arrived at Heathrow on the Aeroflot flight 2570 at 14.32 on March 3 and returned to Moscow several hours later, raising questions as to the purpose of such short visit. Daily Mail, 3 April 2018

30. The Russian national suspected of planning the attack on the Skripals is living undercover in Britain and leads a six-strong hit squad known as “The Cleaners”. They use false identities from an EU state. Sunday Mirror, 7 April 2018

31. Yulia Skripal’s fiancé Stepan Vikeev and his mother had a role in the Skripal poisoning. Mail on Sunday, 21 April 2018

32. Counter terror police have identified a Russian assassin believed to be connected to the Salisbury poisoning. He is a 54 year-old former FSB spy codenamed “Gordon” and is thought to use the cover name Mihails Savickis as well as two other aliases. Police fear he already left Britain and they may never have a chance to question him. Sunday People, 22 April 2018

33. Britain’s intelligence services have compiled a list of key suspects involved in the attack in Salisbury. Daily Mail, 22 April 2018

34. «Johnny Mercer: Quickly on Salisbury, Sir Mark, do you know who the individuals are who poisoned the Skripals? Sir Mark Sedwill: Not yet.» Sir Mark Sedwill’s oral evidence in the Commons Defence Committee, 1 May 2018

 

Other

35. The Skripals could suffer long-tern brain damage and may never fully recover. Financial Times, 22 March 2018

36. The RAF listening post in Cyprus intercepted two messages sent from Syria to Moscow on 3 and 4 March, which included the phrases “the package has been delivered” and that two people have “made a successful egress”. They were flagged as relevant to the Salisbury poisoning. Sunday Express, 8 April 2018; The Times, 9 April 2018.

 

 

Could you direct me to the list of 32 versions of Russian Federation please?

 

I must be missing something, which of those was put out by the UK government and which was media speculation. You must remember that the media does its own thing and writes what it thinks will sell.

 

 

The thing the Russans dont get (and increasing the Americans too it seems) is a free and open press is also free to be wrong from time to time. Whereas a state directed media system has no choice about being wrong or right.

[Adam Peter]

"comment is free, but facts are sacred"

[Stuart Galbraith]

It strikes me all through this thing, a comment comes up in a British newspaper, instantly the Russian Government assumes its a communique from the British Government, because that is pretty clearly how they do things, right? You only have to look at how the British Media covered the Trump visit to disabuse oneself of that notion instantly.

 

The British Government, or police, didnt come up with those 4 theories. Even the one I just mentioned is just a private theory, of no more relevance than any you get on here. Whereas when the Russian media lets fly, whether its the troll farm that is the Russian embassy twitter account, or just Russian newspapers, you can take it to the bank that if they dont directly know of it, they certainly encourage it.

 

We dont even know the Russian assassins have been identified. I mean the sources are good, but till the Antiterrorist branch directly announces it, its speculation and nothing more. Good speculation perhaps, but just that.

[Briganza]

It strikes me all through this thing, a comment comes up in a British newspaper, instantly the Russian Government assumes its a communique from the British Government, because that is pretty clearly how they do things, right? You only have to look at how the British Media covered the Trump visit to disabuse oneself of that notion instantly.

 

The British Government, or police, didnt come up with those 4 theories. Even the one I just mentioned is just a private theory, of no more relevance than any you get on here. Whereas when the Russian media lets fly, whether its the troll farm that is the Russian embassy twitter account, or just Russian newspapers, you can take it to the bank that if they dont directly know of it, they certainly encourage it.

 

We dont even know the Russian assassins have been identified. I mean the sources are good, but till the Antiterrorist branch directly announces it, its speculation and nothing more. Good speculation perhaps, but just that.

Yes it must be hard living under a dictator who controls every aspect of the media, to then imagine that other countries media can have a mind of its own. I do enjoy the trolls posting the latest line from the media as though it was fact and then pointing out that a government minister is contradicting it. "Look they can't get the story straight" they shout. How can a government minister not control the press? It wouldn't happen in Russia.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Charlie Rowley released from hospital.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/amesbury-novichok-poisoning-charlie-rowley-discharged-from-salisbury-hospital-a3892851.html

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44882793

The sister of Novichok victim Dawn Sturgess has described "saying her goodbyes" hours before her death.

Stephanie Sturgess told an inquest she was present when doctor told her of the decision to switch off her sibling's life support.

Mother-of-three, Dawn, 44, and partner Charlie Rowley, 45, collapsed at his house in Amesbury, Wiltshire, within hours of each other on 30 June.

A coroner released Ms Sturgess' body so her funeral could be held.

She died on 8 July after spending nine days in intensive care at Salisbury District Hospital.

At the opening of the inquest at Wiltshire and Swindon Coroner's Court, a statement from Stephanie Sturgess said she visited Dawn on the Radnor Ward on 1 July.

Body 'guarded overnight'

During that time, she said, medics informed her of their intention to "turn off or reduce oxygen", which would "likely result in Dawn's death".

"I then said my goodbyes to Dawn before leaving hospital," she said.

"Later that same evening I was contacted by my sister Claire who informed me that Dawn had died at 8.20pm that evening."

The hearing was told Ms Sturgess's body was left in the hospital room where she died with guards on duty outside overnight.

Her remains were placed in a sealed bag with unique serial numbers the next day, before being taken away under police escort for tests, the court heard.

Coroner Mr Ridley said the results of a post-mortem examination held on Tuesday would not be revealed until more tests had been carried out.

He also confirmed swabs taken from both Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley tested positive at Porton Down for the nerve agent.

Investigators believe the incident is linked to the Novichok poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury on 4 March.

Mr Ridley said: "It was initially believed that on admission both patients had been exposed to contaminated controlled drugs.

"However, it was soon established that both patients were exhibiting symptoms of organo-phosphate poisoning.

"This was the same symptomatology exhibited by two other individuals first admitted to the same hospital on 4 March."

The inquest was adjourned until January.

The Metropolitan Police said 250 detectives had been involved in the "painstaking" investigation since March.

Police are believed to have identified several Russian suspects involved in the attempted murder of Sergei and Yulia Skripal, the Press Association says.

They are thought to have been identified through CCTV, cross-checked with border entry data.

[Briganza]

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44882793

 

They are thought to have been identified through CCTV, cross-checked with border entry data.

 

 

You mean good old fashioned police work.

 

I do find that the media's need to print something, anything, is probably hampering the investigation a little and feeding the Russian maskirovka. Every time the media comes up with a claim that is latter found to be incorrect (flowers on grave) Russia leaps on it and claims it as proof of some such. They should try and stick to reporting facts and not speculation as Russia jumps on the speculation as fact as we have seen from Roman's recent post.

[Roman Alymov]

I must be missing something, which of those was put out by the UK government and which was media speculation. You must remember that the media does its own thing and writes what it thinks will sell.

 

 

No practical difference between versions "put out by the UK government" and "media speculation" as long as both are equally crazy, influencing public opinion and resulting in political decisions (like calls for actions against Russia etc) and personal decisions (like British fans afraid to go to championship in Russia) .

Is example below "media speculation" or "official version"?

Edited July 21, 2018 by Roman Alymov

[Adam Peter]

Yes it must be hard living under a dictator who controls every aspect of the media, to then imagine that other countries media can have a mind of its own.

 

Actually, much easier than you think. Your free media is completely useless, too, because in any given moment no one knows what is in the newspaper is true or false. So it is only noise, capitalizing on the basic human instinct of getting know stuff - exactly like Facebook, for example, just slower.

 

Off topic, on CCTV and police work, have the police captured the runner who literally threw a woman under the bus yet?