Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.

[Briganza]

 

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Why? Because UK is civilized country and couldn't poison couple of Russians and couple of local drug addicts for the sake of major political game?

Re "UK government had bribed FIFA" - Actually this tune was popular not in Russia, but in Western media. Fresh example

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/opinion/sunday/world-cup-fifa-corruption-russia.html

Did Russia Steal the World Cup?

 

"So tell us whose report will you believe?" - one prepared with Russian experts participation.

 

Not sure what your link is supposed to show?

 

Russia was asked at the start to help but it was turned down, don't you remember.

 

What political game, what possible advantage would the UK get from killing an old Russian that they had given sanctuary to. The cost of this has been staggering and looks to go on for many years. What is the possible advantage to the UK?

Edited July 12, 2018 by Briganza

[glenn239]

Why? Because UK is civilized country and couldn't poison couple of Russians and couple of local drug addicts for the sake of major political game?

 

 

 

 

 

They wouldn't do it, not that they couldn't do it. There's a series of norms, of rules, values, in the West about how to govern. Killing innocent Western civilians just isn't done. It's an automatic red line.

[glenn239]

What political game, what possible advantage would the UK get from killing an old Russian that they had given sanctuary to. The cost of this has been staggering and looks to go on for many years. What is the possible advantage to the UK?

 

 

None. On a related note, it's also tough to see what advantage Russia would gain from it either. Disposal of a nerve agent by a professional intelligence service or military should involve putting the excess into some sort of neutralizing fluid. Not a dumpster.

Edited July 12, 2018 by glenn239

[JWB]

 

What political game, what possible advantage would the UK get from killing an old Russian that they had given sanctuary to. The cost of this has been staggering and looks to go on for many years. What is the possible advantage to the UK?

 

 

None. On a related note, it's also tough to see what advantage Russia would gain from it either. Disposal of a nerve agent by a professional intelligence service or military should involve putting the excess into some sort of neutralizing fluid. Not a dumpster.

 

The only gains from the Skripal attack are for the Russian oligarchs.

[glenn239]

Because Russian oligarchs like risking their illicit billions in the UK being frozen?

[JWB]

Because Russian oligarchs like risking their illicit billions in the UK being frozen?

Just the opposite. Skripal's knowledge of Russian organized criminal methods threatened the assets the oligarchs laundered in London banks and real estate. He was still "in the game" and had made multitudes of enemies while in Russian service.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Skripals knowledge of Russian Oligarchs and the FSB is zero. If it wasnt, he would be a lot better off than living at the end of a Cul De Sac in Salisbury. Even Litvinenko was better off then Skripal, and he was scrabbling around for a living doing part time work for the Spanish and Mi6.

 

There were lots of reasons why the Russian Government did this. They did it to prove they could do it, and give kudos to whatever intelligence service sponsored it (probably the GRU) They did it to prove to the UK Government how weak we are. They did it to prove to the Russian people 'Look, those crazy English cant fuck with us, vote for Mr Virile'. They did it for the same reasons Putin said the should kill traitors, to prove to future traitors they will be hunted down and killed. And lastly, and this is just my humble opinion, it was greenlighted because Skripal was just one more of those people whom betrayed Putins beloved Soviet Union. When people talk about him having a fetish for the 'stabbed in the back' myth, then Skripal is precisely the kind of people he thinks were responsible.

 

Yes, none of them are very good reasons. They dont need to be, they just need to be good reasons from their perspective, not ours.

[JWB]

How do you know Skripal has no knowledge of the oligarchs?

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unlikely-that-vladimir-putin-behind-skripal-poisoning-1.3425736

 

.....and this:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/the-daughter-of-former-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-was-the-real-target-of-the-nerve-agent-attack-relative-claims/news-story/5d7bb94389d882b6a41ee4afc5cc5d01

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2632951/bottle-of-nerve-agent-found-at-amesbury-victims-house/ Police have confirmed they have found a container at the address of Charlie Rowley.

On Wednesday 11 July, a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley’s house in Muggleton Road in Amesbury.

 

It was taken to the Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down for tests.

Following those tests, scientists have now confirmed to us that the substance contained within the bottle is Novichok.

Further scientific tests will be carried out to try and establish whether it is from the same batch that contaminated Sergei and Yulia Skripal in March – this remains a main line of enquiry for police.

Inquiries are under way to establish where the bottle came from and how it came to be in Charlie’s house.

 

Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, head of UK counter terrorism policing, said:

“This is clearly a significant and positive development. However, we cannot guarantee that there isn’t any more of the substance left and cordons will remain in place for some considerable time.

"This is to allow thorough searches to continue as a precautionary measure for public safety and to assist the investigation team.

“I also appreciate there is a lot of interest in this; however, we are not in a position to disclose any further details regarding the bottle at this stage."

Basu also confirmed that officers from the investigation team have spoken to Charlie and will be speaking to him further to establish how he and Dawn came to be contaminated.

This contact is being done in close consultation with the hospital and the doctors.

 

Chief Constable for Wiltshire Police, Kier Pritchard said:

“Today’s update from the investigation team is both significant and encouraging.

“I hope that it will further reassure our communities in both Amesbury and Salisbury that the investigation, although complex, is meticulous.

“The way that we do this might start to look slightly different from next week when private security guards will join my officers on some of the cordons.

 

“This will free up some Wiltshire Police officers to get back to supporting day-to-day community policing."

[Stuart Galbraith]

http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-source-of-nerve-agent-contamination-identified-314322

 

Counter terrorism detectives investigating the contamination of two people by the nerve agent Novichok believe they have found the source of the deadly substance.

Dawn Sturgess, 44, from Durrington, died in hospital on Sunday evening (8 July) having been exposed to the nerve agent. Detectives launched a murder inquiry following her death.

A post-mortem is scheduled to take place on Tuesday, 17 July and an inquest into Dawn’s death is set to open and adjourn in Salisbury at 11:00hrs on Thursday, 19 July.

Her partner, 45-year-old Charlie Rowley, was also taken to hospital critically ill but has since regained consciousness. Charlie remains in a serious, but stable condition as hospital staff continue to work hard to provide the care that he needs.

On Wednesday, 11 July, a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley’s house in Amesbury. It was taken to the Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, Wiltshire, for tests.

Following those tests, scientists have now confirmed to us that the substance contained within the bottle is Novichok. Further scientific tests will be carried out to try and establish whether it is from the same batch that contaminated Sergei and Yulia Skripal in March – this remains a main line of enquiry for police.

Inquiries are under way to establish where the bottle came from and how it came to be in Charlie’s house.

Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, Head of UK Counter Terrorism Policing, said: “This is clearly a significant and positive development. However, we cannot guarantee that there isn’t any more of the substance left and cordons will remain in place for some considerable time. This is to allow thorough searches to continue as a precautionary measure for public safety and to assist the investigation team.

“I also appreciate there is a lot of interest in this; however, we are not in a position to disclose any further details regarding the bottle at this stage.

“The safety of the public and our officers remains paramount and we are continuing to work closely with Wiltshire Police, scientists, health experts from Public Health England and other partners.”

Around 100 detectives from the Counter Terrorism Policing Network continue to work on this investigation, alongside colleagues from Wiltshire Police.

Officers from the investigation team have spoken to Charlie and will be speaking to him further to establish how he and Dawn came to be contaminated. This contact is being done in close consultation with the hospital and the doctors.

Anyone with information that may assist the investigation is urged to contact counter terrorism police on 0800 789 321.

The risk to the public in Salisbury and Amesbury remains low. We have not seen any further cases of illness linked to this incident. As a precaution Public Health England continues to advise the public not to pick up any strange items such as syringes, needles, cosmetics or similar objects made of materials such as metal, plastic or glass.

The advice remains “if you didn’t drop it, then don’t pick it up”.

We would like to thank the public of Amesbury and Salisbury for their tremendous support and understanding that they have shown to officers from the Counter Terrorism Policing Network.

A dedicated helpline - 0800 092 0410 – has been set up for anyone with health concerns in relation to this incident.

[Stuart Galbraith]

The eye witness account of Charlie Rowleys Brother on his treatment is quite instructive too. Talks about having him hooked up to 6 machines. Im assuming dialysis machines, at least in part.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/11/novichok-victim-charlie-rowley-speaks-to-police-nerve-agent

[Marek Tucan]

lets hope the stuff in the container is the same as in Skripal case, as that would then mean that with a bit of luck there is no more lying around.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Still checking it. OTOH, im not sure it proves much even if it is. The Russians will never believe it and scream 'plant' anyway. And if they cant confirm it, they will assert its been made by Porton Down. Even if it was in a mongraphed flask with 'From Vlad with Love' written on it, they will never accept it.

As for no more lying around, there seems to have been a vial's used in the Litvinenko hit on two separate occasion. The I dont think we are ever going to know that for sure. For all we know someone could have had an attempt a month before and lost their bottle. I nearly said nerve, and thats almost as bad a pun...

 

The real clincher will be if there are any distinguishing marks on the container, even perhaps DNA or fingerprint data. Which seems unlikely, otoh we dont know how it was stored. If it had been in a bag as initial reports suggested, it might be possible. The problem then comes in matching it with a potential assassin, and im sure they are in the wind long since.

 

Im looking forward to the OPCW getting their hands on this now. Apparently they now have powers of attribution.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Briganza]

 

What political game, what possible advantage would the UK get from killing an old Russian that they had given sanctuary to. The cost of this has been staggering and looks to go on for many years. What is the possible advantage to the UK?

 

 

None. On a related note, it's also tough to see what advantage Russia would gain from it either. Disposal of a nerve agent by a professional intelligence service or military should involve putting the excess into some sort of neutralizing fluid. Not a dumpster.

 

Russia has a habit of shoddy work, Sochi?

[Briganza]

Still checking it. OTOH, im not sure it proves much even if it is. The Russians will never believe it and scream 'plant' anyway. And if they cant confirm it, they will assert its been made by Porton Down. Even if it was in a mongraphed flask with 'From Vlad with Love' written on it, they will never accept it.

As for no more lying around, there seems to have been a vial's used in the Litvinenko hit on two separate occasion. The I dont think we are ever going to know that for sure. For all we know someone could have had an attempt a month before and lost their bottle. I nearly said nerve, and thats almost as bad a pun...

 

The real clincher will be if there are any distinguishing marks on the container, even perhaps DNA or fingerprint data. Which seems unlikely, otoh we dont know how it was stored. If it had been in a bag as initial reports suggested, it might be possible. The problem then comes in matching it with a potential assassin, and im sure they are in the wind long since.

 

Im looking forward to the OPCW getting their hands on this now. Apparently they now have powers of attribution.

Even incompetent Russia agents would put gloves on if they knew what was in the bottle.

I think that I would also question its validity if it had from Russia with love on it.

Lavrov will provide evidence that it has HMG and an arrow on the bottom.

 

The only things it will prove is if there is a link between the two incidents and the purity of the original NA.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Still checking it. OTOH, im not sure it proves much even if it is. The Russians will never believe it and scream 'plant' anyway. And if they cant confirm it, they will assert its been made by Porton Down. Even if it was in a mongraphed flask with 'From Vlad with Love' written on it, they will never accept it.

As for no more lying around, there seems to have been a vial's used in the Litvinenko hit on two separate occasion. The I dont think we are ever going to know that for sure. For all we know someone could have had an attempt a month before and lost their bottle. I nearly said nerve, and thats almost as bad a pun...

 

The real clincher will be if there are any distinguishing marks on the container, even perhaps DNA or fingerprint data. Which seems unlikely, otoh we dont know how it was stored. If it had been in a bag as initial reports suggested, it might be possible. The problem then comes in matching it with a potential assassin, and im sure they are in the wind long since.

 

Im looking forward to the OPCW getting their hands on this now. Apparently they now have powers of attribution.

Even incompetent Russia agents would put gloves on if they knew what was in the bottle.

I think that I would also question its validity if it had from Russia with love on it.

Lavrov will provide evidence that it has HMG and an arrow on the bottom.

 

The only things it will prove is if there is a link between the two incidents and the purity of the original NA.

 

 

They may not have done. They may have said 'This is a deadly poison, be careful', but I doubt they would have told them what exactly it was. That may seem unlikely, but Lugovoi actually introduced his children to Litvinenko just after poisoning him. Presumably its unlikely he would have done that if he knew Litvinenko was doing a passible impression of Chernobyl.

 

The sad truth is, when Russia employs people to do wet jobs, it never uses its best people. They seem to be marginal people, whom the state wont miss if they get killed or arrested, and there is an airgap between them and someone important. Its almost like the logic of mafia hits, they use someone unimportant whom wants to climb the ladder. They learned the lesson to not keep button pressers in the job too long, in case they end up like Joseph Valachi and start grassing up everything he knows. The Russian security service has good links with the mob, I wouldt not put money on them using some of them.

 

Its probably a bottle with 'Vladimir Export on it'. Which could be anyone.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Chris Werb]

An extremely persistent nerve agent, delivered by agents in very small quantities would be ideal for neutralizing economic and infrastructure targets for significant lengths of time.

[Paul G.]

lets hope the stuff in the container is the same as in Skripal case, as that would then mean that with a bit of luck there is no more lying around.

Most likely it is. Thank god they found it.

[Stuart Galbraith]

An extremely persistent nerve agent, delivered by agents in very small quantities would be ideal for neutralizing economic and infrastructure targets for significant lengths of time.

 

I have to wonder if that was a secondary reason for using it. If you view it as an extension of cyber attacks, its worked perfectly. Its ruined the economy of Salisbury. I cant for the life of me actually believe they would think we wouldnt notice people getting ill for no apparent reason.

 

You then have to ask yourself the awkward question, have they done other kinds of physical attacks on the UK, and we have been too self obsessed to notice?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/national/2633471/more-than-400-items-found-in-amesbury-novichok-investigation/

More than 400 exhibits, samples and items have been recovered by police investigating the Amesbury novichok poisoning.

Searches are expected to continue for several weeks, if not months, as officers look for other possible sites or sources of contamination, as well as gather further evidence.

On Saturday, the army was seen removing an ambulance that was used in the treatment of Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley when they first fell ill.

Ms Sturgess, 44, died a week ago after she apparently handled a bottle contaminated with the nerve agent in Amesbury, Wiltshire.

Her partner Mr Rowley, 45, remains in hospital where he is in a serious but stable condition.

Their exposure comes after ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with the same substance in Salisbury in March.

They recovered after many weeks in hospital.

Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, head of counter terrorism policing in the UK, said: "It is not an exaggeration to say that the search process linked with both this and the Salisbury investigation has been one of the most complex and difficult that UK policing has ever faced.

"Not only are we trying to solve an extremely serious crime that has been committed, but we're also working to identify any potential outstanding risks to the public; all whilst ensuring that all those involved in the search process are not themselves exposed to any risk of contamination.

"It is painstaking and vital work, which unfortunately takes a very long time to complete, but I am sure that the public understands why it is absolutely necessary."

Meanwhile, Ms Sturgess's friends are planning their own memorial for her on Friday afternoon which is "open to anyone and everyone".

Ryan Knight, who knew Ms Sturgess through their time at the Salisbury homeless shelter John Baker House, said: "A lot of us probably won't be allowed to go to the funeral.

"I don't want to disgrace her funeral.

"I prefer not to turn up rather than get dirty looks.

"I'll be in the background.

"When her immediate family go, I'll go over and pay my respects."

Mr Knight described Ms Sturgess, who had three children, as having " lots of friends", adding that the manner of her death was "something which is never expected".

"These are two innocent people."

It is not yet clear where the contaminated bottle came from and how it came to be in Mr Rowley's home, where it was found.

But scientists at the Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down are testing it to confirm whether Ms Sturgess and her partner were affected by the same batch of novichok that poisoned the Skripals.

Ms Sturgess's post mortem examination is scheduled to take place on Tuesday and an inquest into her death is set to open in Salisbury on Thursday.

[Paul G.]

 

 

An extremely persistent nerve agent, delivered by agents in very small quantities would be ideal for neutralizing economic and infrastructure targets for significant lengths of time.

I have to wonder if that was a secondary reason for using it. If you view it as an extension of cyber attacks, its worked perfectly. Its ruined the economy of Salisbury. I cant for the life of me actually believe they would think we wouldnt notice people getting ill for no apparent reason.

 

You then have to ask yourself the awkward question, have they done other kinds of physical attacks on the UK, and we have been too self obsessed to notice?

I seriously doubt it. It was just a sloppy job.

[Stuart Galbraith]

The way it was carried out was sloppy, but the thing that guides my thinking was the choice to attack the UK with a nerve agent. I doubt that was just a mistake.

[Marek Tucan]

There is "Die, feline, die!" With Her Majesty's signature.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well possibly.

[Roman Alymov]

 

The sad truth is, when Russia employs people to do wet jobs, it never uses its best people. They seem to be marginal people, whom the state wont miss if they get killed or arrested, and there is an airgap between them and someone important. Its almost like the logic of mafia hits, they use someone unimportant whom wants to climb the ladder. They learned the lesson to not keep button pressers in the job too long, in case they end up like Joseph Valachi and start grassing up everything he knows. The Russian security service has good links with the mob, I wouldt not put money on them using some of them.

 

Will see how quickly British working class couple (with some alco\substance abuse problems , but good natured etc) cowardly attacked by Evil Russians to be transformed into outcasts and traitors on Russian payroll, killed by own weapon

Also interesting how they will explain incompetent Russian agents managing to get through streets and CCTV network unnoticed, planting poison on the door handle of the man living under Mi6 supervision in a way it took weeks of super expensive search to find it out, and not to poison themselves in process. Waiting for new versions

 

Meanwhile summary from former British ambassador in Uzbekistan on official version holes:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-holes-in-the-official-skripal-story/

The Holes in the Official Skripal Story