Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.

[Briganza]

 

 

Deadly chemical agents are not new to the streets of the region

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15893615.Doctors_warn_of_super-strength_synthetic_heroin_on_the_streets_of_Wiltshire/

Doctors warn of super-strength synthetic heroin on the streets of Wiltshire

 

Given that there have been cases of this drug already, its probably identifiable different from what happened to the couple.

 

Since there is no way to know what happened to the couple unless official reports, and my personal trust to official reports is next to zero.... Situation is following as for me: couple of career alcohol & substances abusers, living in the area of known presence of dangerous synthetic drugs, not far from major chemical weapons development centre and with strong family links to another DERA research centre personnel with high security clearance, fell ill for unknown reasons right in time of major UK Gov crisis coming (related to Brexit, with tens of billions and prospects of UK as international power at stake). Now UK officials (and media) are trying to invent ways to link this case to another , equally suspicious, case four month ago, that was also used for political purposes ... Please tell me what is wrong in this description of the situation.

" Caroline, a steward with security clearance who works at the RAF base Boscombe Down near Salisbury, is the main carer for Dawn’s 10-year-old daughter Grace. .....Dawn’s two sons, Aidan, 23, and Ewan, 19, live with their father Andrew Hope, 46, a senior systems engineer also with high-level security clearance who works at Boscombe Down."

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/07/07/494969/

 

You do check your info before posting don't you? Because in this case your research trolls have done an outstanding job.

 

DERA has not existed for many years, almost as long as Putin has been leading Russia so having strong links to an organisation that ended almost 20 years ago is rubbish. The UK does not have a chemical weapons development centre.

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Saying that you will not believe the official report and insinuating that all official report are lies begs the question, what report will you believe. Would you believe a report written by a chimp or some guy in his bedroom who hasn't seen the light of day for 10 years.

 

So tell us whose report will you believe?

[Stuart Galbraith]

Novichok, the gift that keeps on giving.

https://news.sky.com/story/police-novichok-used-in-salisbury-and-amesbury-could-be-active-for-50-years-11432617

A dose of the nerve agent hunted by police in the Salisbury and Amesbury areas could be active for up to 50 years, police have said.

The Metropolitan Police's head of counter-terror, Neil Basu, made the comments at a public meeting in Amesbury.

He was asked if the novichok could be in a landfill site.

In response, Assistant Commissioner Basu said: "If it is sealed in a container and it was in a landfill site it would effectively be safe because it would not be touched by anyone and it would last, probably, I've been told by scientists, 50 years."

He was then asked if he was looking for a "needle in a haystack" and he said: "That's why we need witnesses or intelligence."

 

The nerve agent was used to target former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury in March. The two of them spent many weeks in hospital but survived the attack.

It also killed 44-year-old British woman Dawn Sturgess in Amesbury and left her partner Charlie Rowley in hospital, where he has recently made a "small but significant" improvement.

It is thought that Mr Rowley and Ms Sturgess were exposed to novichok 10 days ago through a contaminated item left behind after the attack on the Skripals.

 

Police cannot yet say that the two incidents are definitely linked, Mr Basu said.

However, he added: "This is a very rare substance banned by the international community and for there to be two separate, distinct incidents in one small English county is implausible to say the least."

He said: "The brutal fact is we don't know where (Mr Rowley and Ms Sturgess) found it.

"I am hoping Charlie recovers and when he recovers he will be able to tell us and perhaps shed some light on it which will narrow our search dramatically.

"There is a possibility they found it on 5 March and only opened it in the past 10 days."

 

I heard on the Local news that its been so hot, teams in the Hazmat suits are only able to work 15 minutes at a time. Which presumably is having an effect on searching the properties and the various locations where the stuff might have been found.

[Briganza]

I heard on the Local news that its been so hot, teams in the Hazmat suits are only able to work 15 minutes at a time. Which presumably is having an effect on searching the properties and the various locations where the stuff might have been found.

 

That's why we moved from a concept of fighting in in full NBC kit to surviving, defending and moving out of the area. The days of attacking in full kit were seen as not credible in reality. Commanders on the ground were given the option and assessment of casualties of attacking without respirators on. On the CAM it gave you an indication of the NA strength so the commander could cross reference it with table to get an indication of casualties, 10%, 20% and so on. In a way a bit like brining artillery down on your own position in defence to stop an attack.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I guess Desert Storm must have forced a realization of quite how ineffective NBC kit is in hot conditions.

 

Well anyway, not much more information available. Sounds to me like she probably binned it and its been hauled off to the rubbish dump.

[Briganza]

I am not sure how much they can learn from it beyond the original quality of the NA. Even if it had made in Russia in cyrillic stamped on the side with finger prints on it (very unlikely as all who knew what was in it would have had double gloves on). Knowing where it was found may narrow down the CCTV search and provide some info but may end up providing lots of smoke but not much heat.

 

I think that this is going to be one of those cases that never has a successful outcome but does us up lots of man hours. But it has kept the conspirators in work coming up with wayout ideas. As a cover for Brexit, Wallace's trip to the moon to get more cheese is more credible.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I am not sure how much they can learn from it beyond the original quality of the NA. Even if it had made in Russia in cyrillic stamped on the side with finger prints on it (very unlikely as all who knew what was in it would have had double gloves on). Knowing where it was found may narrow down the CCTV search and provide some info but may end up providing lots of smoke but not much heat.

 

I think that this is going to be one of those cases that never has a successful outcome but does us up lots of man hours. But it has kept the conspirators in work coming up with wayout ideas. As a cover for Brexit, Wallace's trip to the moon to get more cheese is more credible.

 

Though that was true actually.

 

In one sense, its kind of irrelevant. They could put Putin's signed confession up in 50 foot high letters lit by neon in Red Square, and some people still wouldnt believe it.

[Paul G.]

Still best explained as left overs from a botched hit paid for by Russian oligarch/gangsters.

/government...because all connected.

[Stuart Galbraith]

The Russian Security Service IS the Russian Mob. They proved that to everyones satisfaction in Spain.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/russian-mob-mallorca-spain/545504/

 

Imagine a Chicago where Capone worked on a semi formal basis with Elliot Ness and the FBI. Or a senior FBI Agent owned his own bootlegging business. Thats how it now works in Russia. Has for something like 2 decades now.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44791374

A man who was poisoned by Novichok has spoken "briefly" to officers trying to find the source of the nerve agent, Scotland Yard has said.

Charlie Rowley, 45, is no longer in a critical condition, Salisbury District Hospital said, after making "further progress overnight".

It comes a day after the hospital said he had regained consciousness.

Dawn Sturgess, 44, who was also exposed to Novichok in Amesbury on 30 June, died on Sunday.

Police are investigating a possible link to the case of Russians Sergei and Yulia Skripal, who were poisoned with the same substance in nearby Salisbury in March.

The UK government has blamed Russia for the incident, but the country's authorities deny any involvement.

Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies said people in the Amesbury and Salisbury area should not "pick up any foreign object which could contain liquid or gel, in the interests of their own safety".

 

Lorna Wilkinson, Salisbury District Hospital's director of nursing, said Mr Rowley's condition was now serious, but stable.

"Our staff will continue to work hard to provide the care that Charlie needs," she said.

"Charlie still has some way to go to recover, but the progress we've seen so far gives us cause for optimism."

In a statement, Scotland Yard said: "Officers from the investigation team have spoken briefly to Charlie and will be looking to further speak with him in the coming days as they continue to try and establish how he and Dawn came to be contaminated with the nerve agent.

"Any contact officers have with Charlie will be done in close consultation with the hospital and his doctors."

The Met Police's assistant commissioner for specialist operations told a meeting in Amesbury that officers were working on the theory that Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley had found a container housing Novichok.

Neil Basu said scientific advice suggested that the nerve agent could remain active for decades.

"If it was sealed in a container and it was in a landfill site it would effectively be safe because it would not be touched by anyone and it would last for probably - I've been told by scientists - 50 years," he said.

Police cannot say with certainty that both poisoning incidents in the county are linked, Mr Basu said, but it is a main line of inquiry.

"This is a very rare substance banned by the international community and for there to be two separate, distinct incidents in one small English county is implausible to say the least," he said.

He said scientists at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down will work hard to determine whether the nerve agents in the two incidents were from the same batch.

But, he warned, it may never be possible to establish a definitive link.

"I would love to be able to say that we have identified and caught the people responsible and how we are certain there are no traces of nerve agent left anywhere in Wiltshire," Mr Basu said.

"But the brutal reality is that I cannot offer you any reassurance or guarantee at this time."

Police are continuing to hunt for a contaminated container which they believe was handled by the pair.

The BBC understands Mr Rowley's flat is regarded as the key location in the search, but Mr Basu added: "The brutal fact is we don't know where they found it.

"I am hoping Charlie recovers, and when he recovers he will be able to tell us and perhaps shed some light on it which will narrow our search dramatically."

Ms Sturgess, 44, lived in Salisbury, and the couple had been in the city before going to Mr Rowley's flat in nearby Amesbury on Friday 29 June.

They both then fell ill on Saturday 30, and Ms Sturgess died eight days later. She had two sons, aged 19 and 23, and an 11-year-old daughter.

Public Health England has offered advice for people who may have visited one of five areas identified by police.

Those locations are Muggleton Road, Boots pharmacy, and the Baptist church in Amesbury, and John Baker House and Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury.

Anyone who was there between 22:00 BST on 29 June and 18:30 on 30 June should continue to follow advice, including washing their clothes in a washing machine.

[JasonJ]

 

 

 

Deadly chemical agents are not new to the streets of the region

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15893615.Doctors_warn_of_super-strength_synthetic_heroin_on_the_streets_of_Wiltshire/

Doctors warn of super-strength synthetic heroin on the streets of Wiltshire

 

Given that there have been cases of this drug already, its probably identifiable different from what happened to the couple.

 

Since there is no way to know what happened to the couple unless official reports, and my personal trust to official reports is next to zero.... Situation is following as for me: couple of career alcohol & substances abusers, living in the area of known presence of dangerous synthetic drugs, not far from major chemical weapons development centre and with strong family links to another DERA research centre personnel with high security clearance, fell ill for unknown reasons right in time of major UK Gov crisis coming (related to Brexit, with tens of billions and prospects of UK as international power at stake). Now UK officials (and media) are trying to invent ways to link this case to another , equally suspicious, case four month ago, that was also used for political purposes ... Please tell me what is wrong in this description of the situation.

" Caroline, a steward with security clearance who works at the RAF base Boscombe Down near Salisbury, is the main carer for Dawn’s 10-year-old daughter Grace. .....Dawn’s two sons, Aidan, 23, and Ewan, 19, live with their father Andrew Hope, 46, a senior systems engineer also with high-level security clearance who works at Boscombe Down."

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/07/07/494969/

 

You do check your info before posting don't you? Because in this case your research trolls have done an outstanding job.

 

DERA has not existed for many years, almost as long as Putin has been leading Russia so having strong links to an organisation that ended almost 20 years ago is rubbish. The UK does not have a chemical weapons development centre.

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Saying that you will not believe the official report and insinuating that all official report are lies begs the question, what report will you believe. Would you believe a report written by a chimp or some guy in his bedroom who hasn't seen the light of day for 10 years.

 

So tell us whose report will you believe?

 

 

Whichever is the favorite. Polar opposite and inflexible interests makes for radical favorites.

 

But that is a view that if gotten used to having be upheld could shut down full spectrum looking. Maybe not worth, perhaps not even appropriate here, but figure to just point it out anywayz becauze, IDK, for reasonz that existz in the backgroundz that may still be of validity, look at all those s's turned to z's.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Mobile phone?

[JasonJ]

Mobile phone?

 

beer

[Stuart Galbraith]

Ah, fair enough. Come on England!

[JasonJ]

Today there's soccer. Oh really?, it'll be England vs Croatia. Maybe we can watch it. What time does it start? I don't know. Look it up. 3:00AM. You're gonna watch it? No, its no possible but well, either is ok too win anyway. Ah, I sort of go for England, but can't watch it, too late.

[Stuart Galbraith]

You dont need to watch it, we already know the result. Providing the England team doesnt come down with last minute Novichok poisoning anyway.

[JasonJ]

You dont need to watch it, we already know the result. Providing the England team doesnt come down with last minute Novichok poisoning anyway.

 

Never know. Japan was the least favorite to win in group H. But they made it to round of 16. France beat Belgium although I think Belgium is stronger. France has a 19 year old speedy, emubape, well in romanji anyway, エムバペ in katakana, and can be fun to mock with a french accent while saying the broken Japanese katakana pronunciation.

 

I better stop.

[Stuart Galbraith]

No, dont let me stop you posting when drunk. Its still more intelligent than some of the posting on here.

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

You do check your info before posting don't you? Because in this case your research trolls have done an outstanding job.

 

DERA has not existed for many years, almost as long as Putin has been leading Russia so having strong links to an organisation that ended almost 20 years ago is rubbish. The UK does not have a chemical weapons development centre.

 

Let's see:

"The Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (normally known as DERA) was a part of the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) between 1995 and 2 July 2001. At the time it was the United Kingdom's largest science and technology organisation.

DERA was split into two organisations, based on short-lived transition bodies known as PDERA ("privatised" DERA) - becoming a commercial firm, QinetiQ - and "RDERA" ( "retained" in Government DERA) - becoming the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl).

At the split, QinetiQ was formed from the majority (about 3/4 of the staff and most of the facilities) of DERA, with Dstl assuming responsibility for those aspects which were best done in government. A few examples of the work undertaken by Dstl include nuclear, chemical, and biological research. In the time since the split both organisations have undergone significant change programmes. QinetiQ has increased its focus on overseas research with a number of US and other foreign acquisitions, whereas Dstl has a major rationalisation programme."

"MoD Boscombe Down (ICAO: EGDM) is the home of a military aircraft testing site, located near the town of Amesbury in Wiltshire, England. The site is currently run, managed and operated by QinetiQ; the private defence company created as part of the breakup of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) in 2001 by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD)."

 

So please excuse me savage Russian ignoring white people administrative games and calling de-facto DERA just DERA.

[Roman Alymov]

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Why? Because UK is civilized country and couldn't poison couple of Russians and couple of local drug addicts for the sake of major political game?

Re "UK government had bribed FIFA" - Actually this tune was popular not in Russia, but in Western media. Fresh example

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/opinion/sunday/world-cup-fifa-corruption-russia.html

Did Russia Steal the World Cup?

 

"So tell us whose report will you believe?" - one prepared with Russian experts participation.

[Simon Tan]

Novichok was used on England team obviously. You Russians are heartless.

[Paul G.]

 

 

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Why? Because UK is civilized country and couldn't poison couple of Russians and couple of local drug addicts for the sake of major political game?

Re "UK government had bribed FIFA" - Actually this tune was popular not in Russia, but in Western media. Fresh example

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/opinion/sunday/world-cup-fifa-corruption-russia.html

Did Russia Steal the World Cup?

 

"So tell us whose report will you believe?" - one prepared with Russian experts participation.

Its not that its "civilized" its that its governance system is accountable.

[JWB]

 

 

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Why? Because UK is civilized country and couldn't poison couple of Russians and couple of local drug addicts for the sake of major political game?

Re "UK government had bribed FIFA" - Actually this tune was popular not in Russia, but in Western media. Fresh example

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/opinion/sunday/world-cup-fifa-corruption-russia.html

Did Russia Steal the World Cup?

 

"So tell us whose report will you believe?" - one prepared with Russian experts participation.

Its not that its "civilized" its that its governance system is accountable.

 

If the May government wanted to create a diversion it would have targeted a Brit not a foreigner. Also, a government assassin would not leave loose ends. Only a bumbling gangster would do that.

[Briganza]

 

 

 

You do check your info before posting don't you? Because in this case your research trolls have done an outstanding job.

 

DERA has not existed for many years, almost as long as Putin has been leading Russia so having strong links to an organisation that ended almost 20 years ago is rubbish. The UK does not have a chemical weapons development centre.

 

Let's see:

"The Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (normally known as DERA) was a part of the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) between 1995 and 2 July 2001. At the time it was the United Kingdom's largest science and technology organisation.

DERA was split into two organisations, based on short-lived transition bodies known as PDERA ("privatised" DERA) - becoming a commercial firm, QinetiQ - and "RDERA" ( "retained" in Government DERA) - becoming the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl).

At the split, QinetiQ was formed from the majority (about 3/4 of the staff and most of the facilities) of DERA, with Dstl assuming responsibility for those aspects which were best done in government. A few examples of the work undertaken by Dstl include nuclear, chemical, and biological research. In the time since the split both organisations have undergone significant change programmes. QinetiQ has increased its focus on overseas research with a number of US and other foreign acquisitions, whereas Dstl has a major rationalisation programme."

"MoD Boscombe Down (ICAO: EGDM) is the home of a military aircraft testing site, located near the town of Amesbury in Wiltshire, England. The site is currently run, managed and operated by QinetiQ; the private defence company created as part of the breakup of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) in 2001 by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD)."

 

So please excuse me savage Russian ignoring white people administrative games and calling de-facto DERA just DERA.

 

You've not understood what you have read have you. Read the second to last sentence again.

 

 

​​

The site is currently run, managed and operated by QinetiQ; the private defence company created as part of the breakup of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) in 2001 by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD)."

 

I have shares in QinetiQ, not one of my outstanding investments and as soon as they are out the red (which may take some time) they are gone.

 

How old is that picture.

 

The point is you are using info that is long out of date to support a very poor argument.

[Briganza]

 

 

 

 

Linking this new outbreak of NA poisoning and murder as a distraction for Brexit is beyond clutching at straws. Now if you said that the UK government had bribed FIFA to get England to its very unexpected position that it is in now would be far more credible. But to mask Brexit, do get a grip.

 

Why? Because UK is civilized country and couldn't poison couple of Russians and couple of local drug addicts for the sake of major political game?

Re "UK government had bribed FIFA" - Actually this tune was popular not in Russia, but in Western media. Fresh example

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/opinion/sunday/world-cup-fifa-corruption-russia.html

Did Russia Steal the World Cup?

 

"So tell us whose report will you believe?" - one prepared with Russian experts participation.

Its not that its "civilized" its that its governance system is accountable.

 

If the May government wanted to create a diversion it would have targeted a Brit not a foreigner. Also, a government assassin would not leave loose ends. Only a bumbling gangster would do that.

 

They do have form for bungling, Sochi springs to mind but I am sure I could come up with a number of half thought out schemes that have been poorly executed.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Crimea was a poorly thought out scheme. If they had offered to buy it from Ukraine, Yanukovich would probably have jumped at it. He could have bought more Gnu's.