Is There A Specific Reason The French Army Didn't Adopt The Famas G2?

[Gavin-Phillips]

I've been reading up on Operation Serval in 2013/14 Mali and from all the pictures and video footage I've seen, I only saw the F1 Famas assault rifle. Looking a bit further into things, it would appear that at least some sites mention the Army never acquired the G2.

 

Seems a bit strange to me so was wondering if there was a specific reason. Was the G2 designed for export-only or was the decision perhaps a political one?

[Gavin-Phillips]

Oops sorry, posted in wrong forum (how embarrassing). I'd be grateful to an admin if they could please move the discussion to the Weapons other than tanks forum.

 

Thank you.

[Chris Werb]

My guess was there was no one left able to produce it in France as the factory closed in 2001.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacture_d%27armes_de_Saint-%C3%89tienne

[shep854]

Presumably there isn't a need for enough rifles to justify setting up a new factory. I would also guess that EU politics are also an influence.

[chino]

But why did they not buy another bullpup? That could be the real reason why they did not consider the Famas G2, or the G1 was simply not good enough.

[Chris Werb]

There was a bullpup in the original list of rifles trialled - the Croatian HS Produkt VHS-2.

 

http://www.hs-produkt.hr/en/category/vhs-2/

 

https://youtu.be/l-jtuTP9Vgo?t=29

[bojan]

VHS-2 scored best in accuracy department, but did not like steady diet of RGs.

[chino]

Bojan, pls post pics or any info about Ultimax use by Croatia if you can find them (onto the Singapore Armed Forces thread), thanks.

 

BTW what is RGs?

Edited January 24, 2018 by chino

[Wobbly Head]

Bojan, pls post pics or any info about Ultimax use by Croatia if you can find them (onto the Singapore Armed Forces thread), thanks.

 

BTW what is RGs?

RGs rifle granades the French are a major user for them and the ones that are used have quite a bit of recoil which can affect the rifle that's firing them.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/APAV40

[Chris Werb]

Ironically, they finally seem to have gone over to 40mm UGLs with the H&K but they could be retaining the rifle grenades as well.

[bojan]

Ironically, they finally seem to have gone over to 40mm UGLs with the H&K but they could be retaining the rifle grenades as well.

They will use both since it is payload vs range and accuracy tradeoff. There is a niche for both, and for an excellent Fly-K also.

[Panzermann]

I've been reading up on Operation Serval in 2013/14 Mali and from all the pictures and video footage I've seen, I only saw the F1 Famas assault rifle. Looking a bit further into things, it would appear that at least some sites mention the Army never acquired the G2.

 

Seems a bit strange to me so was wondering if there was a specific reason. Was the G2 designed for export-only or was the decision perhaps a political one?

 

The F1 is the army version and the G2 the navy version. The army did not see a need for new rifles so did not buy any, whereas navy and air force bought the G2 type rifles to replace their zoo of various 556 rifles (HK33, Manurhin manufactured SG540 various ar-15...) that had accumulated in small numbers to replace the MAS49/56 for special users like commandos and such. You can basically blame the 90ies austerites and the army had problems enough budgeting for bringing Leclerc into service for example. So a new rifle was down on the list of priorities.

 

 

With a rebuild and rebarrel to use normal brass cased cartridges the army could continue sig the FAMAS, but with the advent of attaching everything from lasers to coffeemakers on rails the army decided to introduce a new rifle. Just look at the high position of mounted scopes on FAMAS F1:

 

 

charging handle on top is taking up a lot of height.

[Simon Tan]

Silly frenchie, just make fold to left or right and you have ambi charging. But it would need a new upper receiver.

[JW Collins]

It seems like they went through the trouble to sorta modernize the FAMAS F1 for the FELIN program (their version of Land Warrior or the other myriad of future soldier programs out there) but judging from the magazines it seems they were still using the steel-cased ammo. I assume they didn't produce many of them.

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by JW Collins

[Gavin-Phillips]

Thank you all for the replies, still a bit embarrassed about posting this in the wrong forum to be honest....

 

Apart from a single picture of a FAMAS FELIN-equipped rifle, I know nothing else about this. But that scope (and possibly laser designator?) looks huge and relatively heavy/unwieldy. Having watched footage of the French soldiers in action during Operation Serval, I can only see such a bulky attachment being a real pain when you are in the back of an APC like a VAB or in some MRAP vehicle. Space really seems to be at a premium in those things...

 

The 25-round magazine of the F1 also strikes me as being a bit strange.

[JW Collins]

I imagine the bulk and power requirements are why it hasn't been fielded in real-world operations yet, much like when the US fitted M4s with a similar smart scopes for Land Warrior, Future Force Warrior, or whatever-warrior they're calling it now.

 

The FAMAS in back though appears to be upgraded too but lacks all of the electronics so maybe it was considered as a possibility for the rest of the army.

[bojan]

...

The 25-round magazine of the F1 also strikes me as being a bit strange.

30 rounder protrude outside original required dimensions.

[Gavin-Phillips]

 

...

The 25-round magazine of the F1 also strikes me as being a bit strange.

30 rounder protrude outside original required dimensions.

 

Thank you Bojan. Those dimensions must've been pretty compact then.

[shep854]

I think it's been discussed elsewhere, but why did France move away from bullpups? The Aussis F90 seems to have everything needed for modern optics and accessories.

[Chris Werb]

I think it's been discussed elsewhere, but why did France move away from bullpups? The Aussis F90 seems to have everything needed for modern optics and accessories.

 

It's not obvious they intended to. One bullpup was tested.

[shep854]

 

I think it's been discussed elsewhere, but why did France move away from bullpups? The Aussis F90 seems to have everything needed for modern optics and accessories.

 

It's not obvious they intended to. One bullpup was tested.

 

Yet they went with the H&K AR pattern.

[Loopycrank]

Old FAMAS F1 were re-barreled by Beretta to 1 in 7 twist so they could use newer NATO ammo. They were never changed to use AR-15 pattern magazines, however, as that would entail replacing quite a bit of plastic. It's a shame; the original 25 round magazines were not robust and were re-used long beyond their useful life. A rifle is only as reliable as the magazines feeding it.

[shep854]

Old FAMAS F1 were re-barreled by Beretta to 1 in 7 twist so they could use newer NATO ammo. They were never changed to use AR-15 pattern magazines, however, as that would entail replacing quite a bit of plastic. It's a shame; the original 25 round magazines were not robust and were re-used long beyond their useful life. A rifle is only as reliable as the magazines feeding it.

Also a problem with aluminum mags. In fact, that's a selling point for Magpul mags; when they go bad they break, so they must be discarded. The aluminum mags (which were originally conceived to be one-use) just become unreliable but the problem may not be easily seen, so they tend to remain in the inventory. Woe to the soldier who smashes a worn-out mag--destruction of gov't property!!

Edited January 27, 2018 by shep854

[Chris Werb]

Had they decided in advance not to adopt a bullpup, it seems unlikely they would have included one in the testing.

[Gavin-Phillips]

Old FAMAS F1 were re-barreled by Beretta to 1 in 7 twist so they could use newer NATO ammo. They were never changed to use AR-15 pattern magazines, however, as that would entail replacing quite a bit of plastic. It's a shame; the original 25 round magazines were not robust and were re-used long beyond their useful life. A rifle is only as reliable as the magazines feeding it.

 

I've read at least once that the original design spec called for disposable magazines (a world first?). Re-using the magazine in this case would have certainly caused reliability problems with feed and material fatigue.