Only In Texas....

[R011]

This is a once in a decade issue in Texas.  In California, it's just another day.

[Nobu]

Not having much experience driving in snowy conditions, would 4x4 capability and, specifically, 4-High. be of any use on an icy, snowy freeway?

If yes, does switching to 4-High on the fly at 55mph present any challenges?

[MiloMorai]

1 minute ago, Nobu said:

Not having much experience driving in snowy conditions, would 4x4 capability and, specifically, 4-High. be of any use on an icy, snowy freeway?

If yes, does switching to 4-High on the fly at 55mph present any challenges?

It is not about the "go" but about the "whoa".

[MiloMorai]

Texas governor walks back Fox News comments on Green New Deal, says gas, coal failed in Texas freeze

Texas governor walks back Fox News comments on Green New Deal, says gas, coal failed in Texas freeze (yahoo.com)

While millions of Texans were without power in below-freezing temperatures Tuesday night, Texas. Gov. Greg Abbott (R) went on Fox News and told Sean Hannity that the failure of the state's power grid "shows how the Green New Deal would be a deadly deal for the United States of America." Abbott said "our wind and our solar got shut down," which "thrust Texas into a situation where it was lacking power in a statewide basis." The main culprit for the Texas power outages is failures in the natural gas sector, though, so on Wednesday, Abbott walked back his comments.

"I was asked a question on one TV show about renewable, and I responded to that question," Abbott said. "Every source of power that the state of Texas has has been compromised, whether it be renewable power such as wind or solar, but also, as I mentioned today, access to coal-generated power, access to gas-generated power, also have been compromised."

For all of 2020, 40 percent of Texas energy came from natural gas–fired plants, 23 percent from wind turbines, 18 percent from coal, and 11 percent from nuclear power, according to the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which manages the Texas power grid. But in the winter, only about 7 percent of ERCOT's capacity was projected to come from wind sources.

"Texas is still fossil-fueled," and it's obviously silly to suggest "the Republicans who run the state had accidentally adopted a Green New Deal that eliminated fossil fuels and destroyed the reliability of the grid," Michael Grunwald writes at Politico. "The real problem in Texas is the freaky weather, and unfortunately, climate change is delivering a lot more freaky weather" — a phenomenon Texas Tech climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe calls "global weirding."

Abbott, in explaining the Texas grid failures, pleaded Wednesday that "this is a once-in-every-120-year cold front that we have to respond to." But "today, only a fool expects a hundred-year drought or flood or snowfall event to happen once every hundred years," Grunwald said, and Texas — and America — need to prepare accordingly.

[Yama]

32 minutes ago, Nobu said:

Not having much experience driving in snowy conditions, would 4x4 capability and, specifically, 4-High. be of any use on an icy, snowy freeway?

If yes, does switching to 4-High on the fly at 55mph present any challenges?

4x4 does help in snow, but it's mostly about the tyres. No matter how good your summer tyres are, they don't work well in snow, much less ice.

[Ivanhoe]

In slippery conditions, 55 mph should only be happening on the TV.

How the transfer case works will determine if you can shift from 2H to 4H on-the-fly. In my pickup I can do it, at least up to about 25 mph. 4H to 4L requires stopping AIUI. But my philosophy is that if I need 4WD, I don't need to be going faster than 20 mph. People behind me can FOAD.

With all the computerization of autos, what is coming is universal automatic 4WD traction control, just as ABS became universal.

In my limited experience, dry snow can be handled fairly well with 4WD and all-season and/or snow tires. Ice is a whole 'nuther thing; chains and/or studs are the thing.

Keep in mind to that getting a little sideways at 10 mph is no big deal on a wide rural 2-lane, its a whole different experience in the city where you've got parked and moving cars, signposts, curbs, fire hydrants, pedestrians etc. to run into if you should get a little sideways. And at intersections you've always got the risk of some knucklehead doing 30+ mph and locking up his/her brakes when you are crossing.

[seahawk]

4x4 helps to get going, it does not help to stop.

[Mikel2]

5 minutes ago, seahawk said:

4x4 helps to get going, it does not help to stop.

Actually, it does.  In a vehicle with no ABS, 4x4 does a much better job at keeping individual wheels from locking up when brakes are applied in a judicious manner.  For people who use the brake pedal as a switch, there is no improvement at all.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

if you are going 55 in slick conditions no amount of driver aid is going to help

SLOW DOWN!!

[rmgill]

2 hours ago, Nobu said:

Not having much experience driving in snowy conditions, would 4x4 capability and, specifically, 4-High. be of any use on an icy, snowy freeway?

If yes, does switching to 4-High on the fly at 55mph present any challenges?

Tire chains are the best thing to have. When you're on ice, that gives you grip. Directionally, on all 4 corners if a rear wheel drive. IF a front wheel drive the front axle is usually sufficient. 

My Deuce with tire chains on the front and rear axles was like a mountain goat and didn't have ANY issues. I was able to carry higher road speeds and maintain nice control. The ride was rough though. I did run it in 6x6 mode sometimes, but usually switched back to 4x6. 

Larger grippy tires with more aggressive profiles will help in snow, but I'm not sure about ice as that's coefficient of friction issues and not granular powder issues. 

Traction control is a useful thing as well though it can fail to get a suffiicent grip and you CAN find youself in situations where the TCS just can't reassert control with slides. It's better than nothing. 

Low speeds on ice are a general must. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by rmgill

[Nobu]

3 hours ago, Yama said:

4x4 does help in snow, but it's mostly about the tyres. No matter how good your summer tyres are, they don't work well in snow, much less ice.

A neighbor has a garage full of tires that his son takes in to a shop to switch out depending on the season, but I don't think any of them would qualify as snow/ice tires, but rather, performance. I take it that "All Season" tires (which I run on and which I never change) are a poor substitute for actual winter/snow tires.

2 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

How the transfer case works will determine if you can shift from 2H to 4H on-the-fly. In my pickup I can do it, at least up to about 25 mph. 4H to 4L requires stopping AIUI. But my philosophy is that if I need 4WD, I don't need to be going faster than 20 mph. People behind me can FOAD.

With all the computerization of autos, what is coming is universal automatic 4WD traction control, just as ABS became universal.

Yes, shifting on the fly to 4H from 4x2 mode at the top end of the recommended speed range window (55 mph) for doing so, and in snow/ice, sounds less than ideal. 

I see Ford has something called "4A" in its higher-trim trucks. Nice to have if driving in that mode does not carry an MPG or increased parts wear penalty.

2 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

if you are going 55 in slick conditions no amount of driver aid is going to help

SLOW DOWN!!

The problem is that (I assume) there is usually someone going 60 regardless of snowy/icy conditions, whether because of a lack of snow/ice driving experience, eating/multitasking, having watched the fast and the furious too many times, or otherwise. If the prevailing speed on a snowy/icy highway is ranging from 20 mph to 50 mph, it may be time to exit, get a snack, and switch to 4H in the parking lot.

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

Tire chains are the best thing to have. When you're on ice, that gives you grip. Directionally, on all 4 corners if a rear wheel drive. IF a front wheel drive the front axle is usually sufficient. 

Good advice--4x2 with chains as a preferred alternative to 4x4?

Edited February 18, 2021 by Nobu

[Steven P Allen]

I used to keep a set of tires with chains already fitted to swap onto my truck when the roads got nasty, but hereabouts we have to much variability in the conditions.  The highways and main arteries will get plowed long before the side roads.  This situation leaves me needing more traction to get to the main roads but then I am faced with surfaces that destroy the chains readily.

A good compromise would be a set of good studded snow tires, but I can't find them anymore.

[Ivanhoe]

11 minutes ago, Steven P Allen said:

A good compromise would be a set of good studded snow tires, but I can't find them anymore.

I believe some tire shops will put studs in, if your tires are set up for studs.

There's been a chorus of badmouthing of tire studs for a couple of decades now. I suspect a lot of it is driven, pardon the pun, by state governments unhappy with the wear and tear on the paving.

 

[Tim the Tank Nut]

I can assure you that rubber tank tracks are worse on ice than tires.  Once that weight starts to slide it is very nearly uncontrollable.

You lose steering because the track you are braking just wants to slide...

It's all the problems that a car has magnified by size and weight.

One thing I would note, a pickup truck will do a lot better if there is some weight in the back.  Even just shoveling snow into the back is some help.

[Yama]

3 hours ago, Nobu said:

A neighbor has a garage full of tires that his son takes in to a shop to switch out depending on the season, but I don't think any of them would qualify as snow/ice tires, but rather, performance. I take it that "All Season" tires (which I run on and which I never change) are a poor substitute for actual winter/snow tires.

In central Europe they use a lot of 'semi-winter tyres' for winter season which are good enough for driving in wet, cool conditions and ok at dealing with occasional snow or ice. But for full blown winter they don't really cut mustard.

[Tim Sielbeck]

3 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

I can assure you that rubber tank tracks are worse on ice than tires.  Once that weight starts to slide it is very nearly uncontrollable.

You lose steering because the track you are braking just wants to slide...

It's all the problems that a car has magnified by size and weight.

One thing I would note, a pickup truck will do a lot better if there is some weight in the back.  Even just shoveling snow into the back is some help.

 

My first experience driving in snow and ice was at Ft. Knox in an M60A1.  We were going out to the advanced driving course and it stalled.  I called the Plt Sgt and he said I better catch up quick.  I pulled the driver out and got it started and slowly took off after the convoy.  Driving through the post with no guide, no CVC, no cold weather mask, snow falling hard, tank sliding back and forth on the ice, and the tracks in the snow rapidly filling so I didn't know if I would ever catch up.  I finally found them near the reception station.  The exhaust from the tank in front of me was most welcome.

[rmgill]

5 hours ago, Nobu said:

 

Good advice--4x2 with chains as a preferred alternative to 4x4?

Well, 4x2 drive mode with chains for normal moving around should be fine. 4x4 usually presents issues with steering and wear. Engage it when needed. 
If you're going to do ANY sort of helping others get unstuck, I'd engage 4x4 for pulling folks out of ditches. 
 
During our snow-pocalypse a few years ago when it all came down and turned to ice, I pulled a semi up and out of a down hill ramp and had no problems doing so in 6x6 mode to have positive grip. Better to have more traction down too rather than strain one set of chains with the forces. 

The poor driver had pulled off the highway after dinging some cager's car and was trying to find a place to do a piss test while everything was closing. Naturally he got stuck in his truck at the top of a hill with a long backwards slide down. He had slid sideways into the curb and was more or less sorta ready to go sliding further down the hill. When I rolled up and offered to help he was initially skeptical wondering what I was going to demand in exchange. I demurred that I didn't want anything and was just being helpful. He was taken aback for a moment then explained how awful his day was. I ended up getting him going again and up and over the hill/though the intersection safely so he could pull into a large parking lot to reassess. The cops that were protecting the scene were more than pleased that I showed up as dispatch was just telling them they didn't know when a truck sized wrecker could get there. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by rmgill

[rmgill]

5 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

I can assure you that rubber tank tracks are worse on ice than tires.  Once that weight starts to slide it is very nearly uncontrollable.

Steel tracks on a Bren Carrier that are not so aggressive are also "FUN!" on ice. They're great on snow. Not so grippy on ice. Tatra OT610 tracks are VERY grippy on ice But also are hell on asphalt. 

[rmgill]

5 hours ago, Steven P Allen said:

I used to keep a set of tires with chains already fitted to swap onto my truck when the roads got nasty, but hereabouts we have to much variability in the conditions.  The highways and main arteries will get plowed long before the side roads.  This situation leaves me needing more traction to get to the main roads but then I am faced with surfaces that destroy the chains readily.

Why not take the chains off when you get to a spot that's good pavement? 

[Ivanhoe]

Article from 2019;

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/texas-regulators-direct-higher-plant-payments-amid-capacity-crunch-concerns-1/546540/
 

Quote

 

The Public Utilities Commission of Texas (PUCT) directed the Electric Reliability Corporation of Texas (ERCOT) to make changes to the Operating Reserve Demand Curve (ORDC), a market mechanism that governs how power prices respond during times of grid stress. The shift in the ORDC will mean higher prices for power plants and demand-side resources that can respond during peak demand periods.

The move came after ERCOT reported its 2019 reserve margin had dropped to 7.4%, well below the state's target of 13.75%. Power generators, who floated similar changes to the ERCOT market in 2017, praised the proposed changes.

 

This book has been mentioned;

https://www.amazon.com/Shorting-Grid-Hidden-Fragility-Electric/dp/0989119084/

Youtube interview of the author;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWdFtFJ1kUE

 

[Mikel2]

8 hours ago, Nobu said:

Good advice--4x2 with chains as a preferred alternative to 4x4?

I drive an old 4x4 now, but when I had my front wheel drive car, I kept a set of snow tires on junkyard rims that I put on every winter.  My heavy '97 Buick Riviera on snow tires drove like a tank, *much* better than the 4x4 with crappy street tires I had back then.  The only problem I had with my Buick was that beyond 8" of snow, the undercarriage would start dragging and the drag would be too much.

[Ivanhoe]

One of ERCOT's responsibilities is to audit power generators' preps for weather extremes. Oops.

Much political hay is being made that one third of ERCOT's board of directors don't live in Texas. Chairman of the Board lives in Michigan. Not a good look.

 

 

 

[rmgill]

There's the cost. Does the company plan for power generation/fuel delivery systems to handle the extreme weather of say Minot, ND for central Texas? 

There's also the issue of temperature ranges of equipment. Can it be designed for handling the 120°F Peak temps of Texas AND the cold temps they are dealing with now AND be cost effective? 

Let me give a different example. 
Georgia doesn't have snow clearing equipment. We have some, but not much. There's not much point in having a fleet of snow plows that get used once every 5-10 years for a few days in that interim. We have Plows and salt spreaders that can be added to normal utility trucks but even those are not exactly in profuse supply. I'm pleased we don't have a giant fleet of that hardware sitting for 6 years rusting only to be dragged out of the sheds, fixed at a mad pace and then used for 3 days and then sold as scrap. 

I have 4 pairs of tire chains for my Deuce. 2 are in ok shape. I bought the first pair in 2009 and I used them over two winters for 2 storms (2011 and 2014). For probably a total of 4 days. I have another set, that I bought as that first set was approaching service life end from driving on the mix of ice and pavement we had after the 2014 blizzard.  They're still in the shipping boxes. I have not used those.  I also have a brand new set for my car, mostly because If I'm on a trip to PA and snow happens I want to have the ability to deal with it. That kit has NOT been used. It's still new, in the bag they shipped in and are more or less dusty from sitting in the garage all year until they get thrown in the back of the car when deep winter hits. 

[DB]

18 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

It is not about the "go" but about the "whoa".

Exactly this.

4wd (pick your own version) distributes the power across more wheels so that acceleration is easier. Brakes use all four wheels whatever the drive mechanism, so stopping is no better (all else being equal).

It can get you moving when standard differentials just spin one wheel, but that's torque redistribution rather than 4 wheel drive per se.

[Rick]

Limited slip differential? Was thinking of one when get a newer full bed pickup truck.