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When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible


Cinaruco

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18 hours ago, R011 said:

Nope.  But you still won't get people to become cops if there's no pension plan. at th end of a career.  And why shouldn't they have pensions like any other public servant and most private sector workers?

Pensions have basically disappeared completely from the private sector here in the US.  The % of working age adults in the US who have access to pensions is in the low teens (which is a similar % to the number of Americans who work for government... so basically some government employees and a small number of private sector union employees can get one).

Cops without pensions could do what every other American does - plan for retirement, take advantage of whatever plan they're offered (there are similar plans for government employees to a 401(k)), put money aside themselves, etc.  Heaven forbid they may have to live like us peons...

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2 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Pensions have basically disappeared completely from the private sector here in the US.  The % of working age adults in the US who have access to pensions is in the low teens (which is a similar % to the number of Americans who work for government... so basically some government employees and a small number of private sector union employees can get one).

Cops without pensions could do what every other American does - plan for retirement, take advantage of whatever plan they're offered (there are similar plans for government employees to a 401(k)), put money aside themselves, etc.  Heaven forbid they may have to live like us peons...

Why should cops be treated differently from any other public employees?  Would you have been happy if this guy's pernsion had been a 401(k)?  What difference would that have made?

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On 7/8/2023 at 4:25 PM, urbanoid said:

 

Wonder why the flabby owner was screaming "you killed mah dawg" when the poor animal was still dragging it's useless hips behind it and obviously in pain.   Priorities, lady?

Anyways,  lack of followup is irritating - 

Dixie, a 3-and-a-half-year-old golden retriever and Labrador mix, was shot dead by Elliott Palmer of the Lorain Police Department last Sunday.

Palmer has since been placed on leave, but a petition demanding his removal from the force has gained more than 25,000 signatures with words of support coming in from all over

.#JusticeforDixie petition demanding fire of cop who killed golden retriever goes viral (nypost.com)

 

Predictable doxxing is predictable

Who is Elliott Palmer? Lorain police officer accused of shooting a dog - Opoyi

 

 

Edited by X-Files
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5 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

I do... because I specifically said union members voted for him.  If that continues the leadership will follow and Rs would likely change their stance on unions as well.

Lets look at the 2020 election. Where did the Unions donate? 

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On 7/11/2023 at 6:34 PM, rmgill said:

Ok.so how do you strip someone of property (money) without conviction of a crime ? 

Civil suit might gain traction in some cases. No idea about this one.

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6 hours ago, DB said:

Civil suit might gain traction in some cases. No idea about this one.

How in the face of cases like Warren, Castlerock and others? 

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Not a question for me, Ryan. I don't obsess over the specific details of individual cases, I'm just throwing out the point that civil suits might offer a way of depriving an asshole from continuing to roll in the cash in some cases.

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Evil DPS stopped a very put upon citizen of Austin then had the audacity to search his(?) car and find something to arrest him for that was more serious than the reason he was initially stopped for all within the city limits of Austin.

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9 hours ago, DB said:

Not a question for me, Ryan. I don't obsess over the specific details of individual cases, I'm just throwing out the point that civil suits might offer a way of depriving an asshole from continuing to roll in the cash in some cases.

The devil is in the details. 
 

In the UK, if the police fail to protect someone, can you sue? If not, why not? 
 

If you cannot, how can you hold an individual responsible if his department and the state cannot be held thus accountable? 


Another example/angle… legislatures can’t vote someone guilty. Do you know why? 

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5 hours ago, rmgill said:

The devil is in the details. 
 

In the UK, if the police fail to protect someone, can you sue? If not, why not? 
 

If you cannot, how can you hold an individual responsible if his department and the state cannot be held thus accountable? 


Another example/angle… legislatures can’t vote someone guilty. Do you know why? 

Nothing to do with my provision of an alternative approach that might be useful in some cases. 

Still, it's comforting to know that your new job hasn't changed you.

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I still don't think we can wave magic wands, despite the market sector change from Media to Finance. Despite the fact that I do deal with people who don't understand the technology. I'm currently dealing with a dude who doesn't understand why an optical fiber tap will not work with a copper pass through cable infrastructure. 

Kind of the same thing here I guess. If you can't find a group of government criminally or civilly liable, how are you going to find an individual for the same reasons? 

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I would very much like to see a complete exodus of cops from the Blue cop hating areas, into normal decent America. Leave the blue cities with NO police, sheriff's, etc, just their social workers. No police to respond to calls, no police to take the abuse of the libtards. I would love to see all police just pack up and leave, going to real America, not liberal la la land. LAPD is down 1000, Austin PD is down over 500, NYPD is down, keep up the exodus. The LAPD chief gave data to the cop killer website so they could target his own officers. Pack up and leave.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/07/18/lapd-union-official-to-cops-go-work-in-cities-where-leaders-dont-hate-you-n2625854
https://www.foxnews.com/us/lapd-chief-accused-of-feeding-personal-data-to-anti-police-activists-bounty-on-our-officers
https://www.foxnews.com/us/los-angeles-police-officers-sue-anti-cop-website-owner-alleged-bounty-photo-info-release
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Quote

A Trooper Issued More than 1,000 Fake Tickets. Connecticut Police Won’t Say Whether He Still Has a Job

An audit has uncovered a massive scandal in Connecticut, where hundreds of troopers manipulated the state’s racial-profiling database through fraudulent citations

A single state trooper logged 1,350 fraudulent traffic tickets into a Connecticut database meant to detect racial profiling. The finding is key to a damning new audit of the Connecticut State Police, which reveals pervasive trooper malfeasance, including at least 26,000 false tickets logged over seven years, that masked racial bias in the force’s policing. Now, the CSP refuses to discuss the audit — or even reveal if the most-prolific ticket faker still has a badge.

These fake tickets, to be clear, did not result in fines or court dates for Connecticut drivers. Under the law, state troopers are required to log tickets from their traffic stops into parallel systems: One that is connected to the state’s judicial branch, and triggers adjudication; and a second database that records the demographic data of stopped drivers, and is intended to expose — and, ideally, curb — bias in traffic enforcement.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/connecticut-police-trooper-1000-fake-tickets-1234789116/

The reddit post covering this mentioned there was some Fed program that paid for OT if cops could justify they were actively engaged (and the tickets were an easy to way to do this) so that could be the main reason for this (rather than in trying to sabotage bias tracking).

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On 7/11/2023 at 3:18 PM, Skywalkre said:

Pensions have basically disappeared completely from the private sector here in the US.  The % of working age adults in the US who have access to pensions is in the low teens (which is a similar % to the number of Americans who work for government... so basically some government employees and a small number of private sector union employees can get one).

Cops without pensions could do what every other American does - plan for retirement, take advantage of whatever plan they're offered (there are similar plans for government employees to a 401(k)), put money aside themselves, etc.  Heaven forbid they may have to live like us peons...

Out of curiosity, do you know if pensions are widely available at universities? 

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10 hours ago, Rick said:

Out of curiosity, do you know if pensions are widely available at universities? 

They use things like TIAA CREF. 

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23 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/connecticut-police-trooper-1000-fake-tickets-1234789116/

The reddit post covering this mentioned there was some Fed program that paid for OT if cops could justify they were actively engaged (and the tickets were an easy to way to do this) so that could be the main reason for this (rather than in trying to sabotage bias tracking).

Yes, the feds have the program, I cannot recall the name of it, and they pay local cities, counties and States to spend extra shifts on the highway.  It went on for years, the troopers and city made a killing with the OT, we never used it.  When the feds throw free money, it gets abused.    Just recalled it was the STEP program.  I have no idea what STEP stands for.  

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8 hours ago, Murph said:

Yes, the feds have the program, I cannot recall the name of it, and they pay local cities, counties and States to spend extra shifts on the highway.  It went on for years, the troopers and city made a killing with the OT, we never used it.  When the feds throw free money, it gets abused.    Just recalled it was the STEP program.  I have no idea what STEP stands for.  

S.T.E.P. = Subterfuge Taxpayer Expenditure Program ;)

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It was really popular 10-15 years ago, but I have not heard anyone using it in the last 5+ years.  They cut the money back, and I know the Highway Patrol had mandatory STEP shifts at one point.  The local PD's loved it because the City coffers got ticket money.  We (and many Sheriff's Offices) did not participate.  AFAIK IIRC the only reporting requirement was number of tickets issues, but I could be wrong since we did not participate.

As with anything where the federal government just throws money at you, it is ripe for abuse.  

Another thing I never liked because it was a license to steal are the Federal asset forfeiture laws which practically demanded corruption and abuse.  The concept was solid, but the actual implementation is badly flawed.  Texas has cracked down on the rules and made them stricter, after several very well publicised reports of towns using it to fill their coffers.  

 

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