When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[DB]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:44 PM, Murph said:

See I will disagree on what they were indoctrinated to do, although there is a "lemming" effect when shots start to be fired by someone, or a chase is called.  I have seen that in car chases, everyone wants to get in on it.  The shots, I have investigated (assisting the Texas Ranger of course) multiple OIS, and all were good shoots, although one was a close call, but the bad guy had fired first, on on body camera you can actually hear the bullet go past a deputy.  

I do not think New Mexico is one of the states that require post certification training, but I could be incorrect.  Without knowing what the training and culture are like in that PD, anything we say will be pure speculation.  But is in my view, having investigated OIS it is a bad shoot.  The officer(s) who fired should be taken to a grand jury, and I would seriously be surprised if they did not get charges filed against them.  I would support manslaughter at the least.  For murder you have to have intent to kill the person, manslaughter is a proper charge (at least under Texas law).  Possibly Aggravated Assault with a Deadly weapon causing Serious Bodily Injury or death (In Texas the same penalty as murder, a 1st degree felony 5-99/life).  

Does the degree of negligence affect the charges or the potential penalties? They exhibited complete cluelessness about the house number. Also, their "Farmington Police" identification was so quiet I'd be surprised if it made it through the door, let alone to whichever room the owner might have been in.

[Murph]

Yes, it can, and it does.  If there is a fair and impartial investigation, then Justice can and will happen.  Now as to what that would be, I have no clue.  You have to announce, they did the "sneaky" announce which was both, in my opinion, wrong and stupid.  You WANT them to know that the Police are there.  

[DB]

The whole thing with them being unclear on the house number, the clear presentation of the house number in the bodycam footage and their lack of sensible reaction (like, "oh, we'd better leave quickly" just reeks of incompetence. At least the Keystone Cops never killed anyone.

[rmgill]

My position is this. 

If the above is a justified shooting. Then by rights the home owner could have likewise justifiably shot the cops because they were pointing guns at him and he was in fear of his life. Because then it's parity and everyone had best be careful instead of JUST the civilians being careful of the police. 

From a tactics perspective, you don't show your gun to someone who's pounding on the door at o dark 30. You peek and figure out what's going on and use the best available cover before going out full body. 

 

[BansheeOne]

I keep bringing up the German Hell's Angel who was acquitted for killing an SEK officer by firing a legally-owned gun through a closed door after telling the guys he heard sneaking up outside to piss off, because they failed to identify themselves and his claim that he feared an armed attack by rival hoodlums couldn't be disproven.

[rmgill]

Speaking of cops...
 

 

[Tim Sielbeck]

 

[Skywalkre]

Kudos to these reporters for uncovering this filth, getting results (I'm still shocked to hear officers were actually fired or quit), and on their Pulitzer Prize win.  There were a lot of good journalists at the local level... before consolidation/disappearance of local papers started happening over the last 15 or so years.  That loss means local corruption like this less likely to be reported.

Quote

he reporting revealed how the police force in Brookside, a town of 1,253 people, used proceeds from fines for nefarious citations and arrests and forfeitures to bilk poor residents of thousands of dollars, increasing revenue by 640 percent over two years.

The police chief, his top lieutenant and more than half of the force resigned or were forced out within two weeks of AL.com’s initial story. Two months later, the state legislature passed a law restricting Alabama towns from using revenues from fines and fees to supply more than 10 percent of their budgets.

https://www.al.com/news/2023/05/alcom-wins-pulitzer-prize-for-local-reporting-on-brookside-read-the-winning-work.html

[Rick]

3 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Kudos to these reporters for uncovering this filth, getting results (I'm still shocked to hear officers were actually fired or quit), and on their Pulitzer Prize win.  There were a lot of good journalists at the local level... before consolidation/disappearance of local papers started happening over the last 15 or so years.  That loss means local corruption like this less likely to be reported.

https://www.al.com/news/2023/05/alcom-wins-pulitzer-prize-for-local-reporting-on-brookside-read-the-winning-work.html

+1

[DB]

So, are any of those police officers going to prison?

[Harold Jones]

On 5/13/2023 at 6:10 AM, DB said:

So, are any of those police officers going to prison?

Pretty unlikely, levying fines for zealously enforced minor laws and ticky tack offenses has been a small town financing strategy since the early 20th century.  Since it isn't generally explicitly illegal it's not punishable by a jail term.  It doesn't hurt that the practice generally affects the poor or out of towners the most. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Harold Jones

[Murph]

Yeah, another "Bad" cop who does not deserve your respect.  https://policetribune.com/hero-down-cameron-police-department-sergeant-joshua-josh-clouse-murdered-by-gunman/  And the worst part is people are probably applauding that the officer was murdered doing his job.  

[Murph]

And it is not illegal so it gets done, since Mayors and City Managers want revenue.  So they hire a chief who does what the supervisors want.  Selma, Texas did it for years, they ran a traffic racket on IH-35.  They had a radar set up on top of City Hall (now a Hooters), and would have officers lining the interstate.  Selma had a nice racket going on, till Texas changed the law and made them turn over most of the fines to the State.  Selma STILL is not some place you want to speed through.  

[Ivanhoe]

Bad language warning;

 

 

[EchoFiveMike]

^ This is why women should stay at home and keep house.  Subhumans are gonna subhuman.  And this is a parable of America.  She continued to do something proven to be absolutely worthless, blathering on the phone, instead of DOING something.  Yeah, chicks generally don't do stuff, they get men to do stuff....that time has passed.  S/F...Ken M

[Burncycle360]

I wonder if she voted for Biden

[EchoFiveMike]

14 hours ago, Burncycle360 said:

I wonder if she voted for Biden

If she was a Milwaukee resident, she voted for Biden a couple times, whether she knew it or not.  S/F....Ken M

[Ivanhoe]

2 hours ago, EchoFiveMike said:

If she was a Milwaukee resident, she voted for Biden a couple times, whether she knew it or not.  S/F....Ken M

Possibly 3 or 4 times on the same day in different precincts.

 

[Sardaukar]

"Vote early, vote often"

Though somehow proof of that is pretty scarce. 

 

[rmgill]

Proof of organized crime is scarce too. Organized crime takes pains to keep a low profile. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 

[Murph]

Ok, I just got off the phone with one of the prosecutors.  I got GOOD news for a change.  Several years ago I worked a child abuse case that was the worst I have ever seen in the 28+ years I had been a cop.  I have never seen a child of 2 1/2 years of age so brutally beaten and still live.  This child had bruises from the soles of his feet to his head.  He had part of his skull removed due to swelling and brain bleeding.  The two investigators who were assigned both quit after the initial start of this case, and if fell to me as the supervisor to finish it.  Another Sergeant, who was hard core, and could pretty much handle anything could not even walk into the room with the child he was so wrecked by this case.  I have had nightmares ever since about this case.

The mother's boyfriend was caught on Nanny cam hitting the child who was asleep in the crib with a pair of brass nuckles made out of hard polymer.  We got the video.  The mother finally admitted after an hour of being interviewed and showed photos of her son that the abuse had been going on for two weeks.  I have never seen two Paramedics break down and cry during an interview but they did.  The nurses at the hospital also broke down and cried.  The doctors told me that he did not have much of a chance to live.  

Well, he lived.  Blind in one eye, and some brain damage, but far less than could be expected.    Well the mother took her plea deal today and got 18 years (she has to do at least 9), and the boyfriend took 37 years (he has to do at least half).  I actually started crying on the phone with the prosecutor.   Sometimes miracles happen.   The judge delivered the sentences, the mother shows no remorse, regret or even compassion.  Neither does the meth head boyfriend.   Our victim has been adopted by the nurse who took care of him, along with his sister.  Good things sometimes happen.  

I am being vindictive but I really hope neither does well in prison.  I hope their dance cards are full.....

Thank God this is over.  There are some things no human being should have to see, but someone has to do the job.  I think I might sleep well tonight.

 

 

[sunday]

Thank you for your service, Murph.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

it's happenings such as these that try mens' faith.

I am glad you got good results.  Pray the best for the child.  As to the abusers, it's not for me to render final judgement but I raise your vindictiveness by hoping that something truly awful happens to them.  It's not right but it's how I feel.

[Rick]

Perhaps the most difficult verses to have patience with is Romans 12: 18-19 E.S.V. 

"18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

[JWB]

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — A Republican-led investigation on Wednesday accused Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton of committing multiple crimes in office — including felonies — during an extraordinary public airing of scandal and alleged lawbreaking that plunged one of the GOP’s conservative stars into new political and legal risk.

For more than three hours, investigators presented findings alleging Paxton sought to hide an affair, misused his office to help a donor, skirted protocols “grossly outside” norms and built a culture of fear and retaliation in his office. Investigators told the GOP-led House General Investigating Committee that there was evidence that Paxton repeatedly broke the law over the years, including by misusing official information, abusing his official capacity and retaliation.

https://apnews.com/article/texas-ken-paxton-investigation-40ba70a33235eda9a31fc2628cbd7d61