rmgill Posted April 16, 2023 Posted April 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, DKTanker said: Yet more evidence that we of Sam live in a police state. Another obvious instance when civilians are seen first and foremost as threats against the state that must be put down. https://www.yahoo.com/news/body-camera-footage-shows-police-041256883.html Link to the body cam videos below. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=602302351825817&ref=sharing So....late night, someone knocks on any one of those cops doors, are they going to go to the door with a gun? Probably a solid, "Yes!". Now, the raised gun of the homeowner as they're backing up pointing flashlights at the home owner who's pointing his gun at 3 subjects with lights on him, what's going on there? Who's in the wrong? The police at the wrong address? The home owner? Whom? Edited April 16, 2023 by rmgill
Skywalkre Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 Who's in the wrong? It seems pretty bloody clear. For starters you have some moron police who can't even find the right bloody home (an innocent man is dead after this fact... every one of those officers should be fired for this fact alone). Second, in the vid I saw I don't hear them clearly identifying themselves before the door opens. Another vid/report claims they did 3 times before the door opens but that was over the course of several minutes. It's possible you have a homeowner who just hears loud banging on his door, brings his weapon (he has every right to), and opens it to blinding lights and gunfire... how am I supposed to criticize the victim, here? This incident is VERY similar to something that happened here in the Valley where police went to an apartment based on a phony/prank call... couldn't be seen when the guy opened his door... he had a gun (but didn't point it)... but that was enough to get shot and killed. Despite what Murph might say cops operate under a two-tier system that heavily favors them. All that's going to happen here is the taxpayers will probably pay out millions while these terrible cops continue on being terrible at their job with no ramifications at all coming down on them. Just ridiculous bullshit... and an innocent father and family man is dead because of it.
Sardaukar Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 While not really a cop thing... https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/17/ralph-yarl-shooting-black-teen-shot-kansas-city-homeowner/11680548002/ I could understand people starting to shoot when I ring doorbell, since I look decidedly unfriendly, but teenager, that's bit pushing it.
Murph Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 Not a two tier system at all, cops are guilty unless proven innocent in too many places. But look at who runs the cops, and chances are if they are violating peoples rights, killing innocent citizens, etc, the place is run by and for Democrats.
DKTanker Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 6 hours ago, Murph said: Not a two tier system at all, cops are guilty unless proven innocent in too many places. But look at who runs the cops, and chances are if they are violating peoples rights, killing innocent citizens, etc, the place is run by and for Democrats. So the example just given from New Mexico. Good shoot?
EchoFiveMike Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 We've been in a police state since the 80's, at least. For any self respecting American man, the police do damned little for him. Positive things, at any rate. About the only thing I would want is investigation of criminal enterprise, and they do damned little of that, quite the opposite, since the captured does little except ensure there's no challenges to the established criminal systems. Street criminals? If you can't handle that yourself, turn in your balls, and go find an out of the way place to die. We've had a century of coddling and subsidizing the weak, and people wonder why things are shit? Really? S/F....Ken M
Murph Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 16 hours ago, DKTanker said: So the example just given from New Mexico. Good shoot? Could you give me the link please? EDIT- Found it, cannot get the Facebook video to play. Found the video else where, it looks like about as bad a shoot as it can get. The NM cops will have to pay the piper, and from the face of it very justifiably so.
Murph Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/17/2023 at 11:42 AM, Sardaukar said: While not really a cop thing... https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/17/ralph-yarl-shooting-black-teen-shot-kansas-city-homeowner/11680548002/ I could understand people starting to shoot when I ring doorbell, since I look decidedly unfriendly, but teenager, that's bit pushing it. Agreed, this looks like a completely bad shoot on the face of it.
DKTanker Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, Murph said: Could you give me the link please? EDIT- Found it, cannot get the Facebook video to play. Found the video else where, it looks like about as bad a shoot as it can get. The NM cops will have to pay the piper, and from the face of it very justifiably so. Maybe, but the way all of them opened fire together and instantaneously speaks to a level of training and indoctrination. It's a bad shoot from the civilian point of view, but the level of training and indoctrination indicates they were simply doing what they were indoctrinated to do.
Murph Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 See I will disagree on what they were indoctrinated to do, although there is a "lemming" effect when shots start to be fired by someone, or a chase is called. I have seen that in car chases, everyone wants to get in on it. The shots, I have investigated (assisting the Texas Ranger of course) multiple OIS, and all were good shoots, although one was a close call, but the bad guy had fired first, on on body camera you can actually hear the bullet go past a deputy. I do not think New Mexico is one of the states that require post certification training, but I could be incorrect. Without knowing what the training and culture are like in that PD, anything we say will be pure speculation. But is in my view, having investigated OIS it is a bad shoot. The officer(s) who fired should be taken to a grand jury, and I would seriously be surprised if they did not get charges filed against them. I would support manslaughter at the least. For murder you have to have intent to kill the person, manslaughter is a proper charge (at least under Texas law). Possibly Aggravated Assault with a Deadly weapon causing Serious Bodily Injury or death (In Texas the same penalty as murder, a 1st degree felony 5-99/life).
Sardaukar Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 (edited) Things getting from bad to worse... (Though perpetrator was not exactly a cop). https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/04/police-employee-in-santa-monica-california-molested-more-than-200-kids-warnings-of-abuse-were-ignored Edited April 27, 2023 by Sardaukar
DB Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:44 PM, Murph said: See I will disagree on what they were indoctrinated to do, although there is a "lemming" effect when shots start to be fired by someone, or a chase is called. I have seen that in car chases, everyone wants to get in on it. The shots, I have investigated (assisting the Texas Ranger of course) multiple OIS, and all were good shoots, although one was a close call, but the bad guy had fired first, on on body camera you can actually hear the bullet go past a deputy. I do not think New Mexico is one of the states that require post certification training, but I could be incorrect. Without knowing what the training and culture are like in that PD, anything we say will be pure speculation. But is in my view, having investigated OIS it is a bad shoot. The officer(s) who fired should be taken to a grand jury, and I would seriously be surprised if they did not get charges filed against them. I would support manslaughter at the least. For murder you have to have intent to kill the person, manslaughter is a proper charge (at least under Texas law). Possibly Aggravated Assault with a Deadly weapon causing Serious Bodily Injury or death (In Texas the same penalty as murder, a 1st degree felony 5-99/life). Does the degree of negligence affect the charges or the potential penalties? They exhibited complete cluelessness about the house number. Also, their "Farmington Police" identification was so quiet I'd be surprised if it made it through the door, let alone to whichever room the owner might have been in.
Murph Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 Yes, it can, and it does. If there is a fair and impartial investigation, then Justice can and will happen. Now as to what that would be, I have no clue. You have to announce, they did the "sneaky" announce which was both, in my opinion, wrong and stupid. You WANT them to know that the Police are there.
DB Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 The whole thing with them being unclear on the house number, the clear presentation of the house number in the bodycam footage and their lack of sensible reaction (like, "oh, we'd better leave quickly" just reeks of incompetence. At least the Keystone Cops never killed anyone.
rmgill Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 My position is this. If the above is a justified shooting. Then by rights the home owner could have likewise justifiably shot the cops because they were pointing guns at him and he was in fear of his life. Because then it's parity and everyone had best be careful instead of JUST the civilians being careful of the police. From a tactics perspective, you don't show your gun to someone who's pounding on the door at o dark 30. You peek and figure out what's going on and use the best available cover before going out full body.
BansheeOne Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 I keep bringing up the German Hell's Angel who was acquitted for killing an SEK officer by firing a legally-owned gun through a closed door after telling the guys he heard sneaking up outside to piss off, because they failed to identify themselves and his claim that he feared an armed attack by rival hoodlums couldn't be disproven.
Skywalkre Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 Kudos to these reporters for uncovering this filth, getting results (I'm still shocked to hear officers were actually fired or quit), and on their Pulitzer Prize win. There were a lot of good journalists at the local level... before consolidation/disappearance of local papers started happening over the last 15 or so years. That loss means local corruption like this less likely to be reported. Quote he reporting revealed how the police force in Brookside, a town of 1,253 people, used proceeds from fines for nefarious citations and arrests and forfeitures to bilk poor residents of thousands of dollars, increasing revenue by 640 percent over two years. The police chief, his top lieutenant and more than half of the force resigned or were forced out within two weeks of AL.com’s initial story. Two months later, the state legislature passed a law restricting Alabama towns from using revenues from fines and fees to supply more than 10 percent of their budgets. https://www.al.com/news/2023/05/alcom-wins-pulitzer-prize-for-local-reporting-on-brookside-read-the-winning-work.html
Rick Posted May 13, 2023 Posted May 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Skywalkre said: Kudos to these reporters for uncovering this filth, getting results (I'm still shocked to hear officers were actually fired or quit), and on their Pulitzer Prize win. There were a lot of good journalists at the local level... before consolidation/disappearance of local papers started happening over the last 15 or so years. That loss means local corruption like this less likely to be reported. https://www.al.com/news/2023/05/alcom-wins-pulitzer-prize-for-local-reporting-on-brookside-read-the-winning-work.html +1
Harold Jones Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) On 5/13/2023 at 6:10 AM, DB said: So, are any of those police officers going to prison? Pretty unlikely, levying fines for zealously enforced minor laws and ticky tack offenses has been a small town financing strategy since the early 20th century. Since it isn't generally explicitly illegal it's not punishable by a jail term. It doesn't hurt that the practice generally affects the poor or out of towners the most. Edited May 14, 2023 by Harold Jones
Murph Posted May 15, 2023 Posted May 15, 2023 Yeah, another "Bad" cop who does not deserve your respect. https://policetribune.com/hero-down-cameron-police-department-sergeant-joshua-josh-clouse-murdered-by-gunman/ And the worst part is people are probably applauding that the officer was murdered doing his job.
Murph Posted May 15, 2023 Posted May 15, 2023 And it is not illegal so it gets done, since Mayors and City Managers want revenue. So they hire a chief who does what the supervisors want. Selma, Texas did it for years, they ran a traffic racket on IH-35. They had a radar set up on top of City Hall (now a Hooters), and would have officers lining the interstate. Selma had a nice racket going on, till Texas changed the law and made them turn over most of the fines to the State. Selma STILL is not some place you want to speed through.
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