When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[Skywalkre]

On 2/15/2023 at 5:09 PM, Tim Sielbeck said:

 

This is just... disgusting.  What's worse... all that seems likely to happen is the taxpayers will pay out when the reality is it sounds like entire sheriff's office should be fired and rebuilt from scratch and several members of it being prosecuted for this guy's death (and then lying about it after).

So many things in this story just reaffirming so many wearing the badge these days shouldn't be... and will go out of there way to protect their own than do the right thing.  Hopefully the family and that fired officer get a big payday out of this.

[Murph]

Again video on the internet, what are the REAL facts.  If true, the person who allowed it to happen, and those who did it, need to go to prison for Official Oppression.  But what are the FACTS?  

https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-man-who-froze-death-jail-likely-put-freezer-possible-punishment-lawsuit-alleges

Ok, so let us see what the autopsy says, and does Alabama have something like the Texas Rangers or AG Investigators who can come in and look at this.  Reading non-hysterical articles on the net leads me to believe this was what is called a "pattern and practice" issue that will not go well for that Sheriff's Office.  

 

[Daan]

Looks very bad, but the DA found it somehow justified:

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Daan

[Skywalkre]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:25 PM, Murph said:

Again video on the internet, what are the REAL facts.  If true, the person who allowed it to happen, and those who did it, need to go to prison for Official Oppression.  But what are the FACTS?  

https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-man-who-froze-death-jail-likely-put-freezer-possible-punishment-lawsuit-alleges

Ok, so let us see what the autopsy says, and does Alabama have something like the Texas Rangers or AG Investigators who can come in and look at this.  Reading non-hysterical articles on the net leads me to believe this was what is called a "pattern and practice" issue that will not go well for that Sheriff's Office.  

 

Curious... would you be just as cautious if this were a story about someone who was a D politician as you are because various law enforcement officers are involved?

[rmgill]

That's low. Murph is a straight shooter as far as I can tell. 

Media gets legal case stuff wrong ALL the bloody time. Look at the Hands up Don't Shoot Narrative. The political persuasion of the officers and department not withstanding. Same for the Rayshard Brooks Shooting in Atlanta. We got riots out of that. Where'd the case go. Right, the shooting was justified. How'd the press cover it? Oh it was another shooting of a poor black man! Martin Zimmerman case, the same. The Kenosha Shooting, same. 

Simply being suspicious about the facts and wanting to see some  corroboration, oh noes!

More so. Read what he wrote: " Reading non-hysterical articles on the net leads me to believe this was what is called a "pattern and practice" issue that will not go well for that Sheriff's Office.  "

This points to a view that there seems to be smoke here and that its indicative of a fire, which is not exactly supportive of the agency in question. 
 

Edited February 23, 2023 by rmgill

[rmgill]

That's how a police department SHOLD handle officers who conduct an arrest that doesn't have supporting evidence. 
 

 

[Murph]

15 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Curious... would you be just as cautious if this were a story about someone who was a D politician as you are because various law enforcement officers are involved?

Not at all, I see the Media feeding frenzy, and you need to wait, do a complete investigation, and then if there is actual criminality, you come down on the people involved.  Just because you think all cops are evil and as soon as someone accuses the cops of wrong doing they should be fired and prosecuted despite not knowing the truth.  "Your philosophy seems to be the typical democrat/liberal: "Sentence First!, then the trial."  Also you forget I actually worked as the Internal Affairs Sergeant, and so have experience with actual investigations.  And yes, I have gotten several cops/jailers indicted for ACTUAL crimes.

Based on reports, as I said, it does not look good, but you need to let the process go through.  Unlike the Idiot foreperson of the Atlanta Grand Jury who is on her own Waaaagh tour.  She just made it impossible to get a fair conviction on anyone, since the first thing their lawyers will do is point to her.  

[Murph]

14 hours ago, rmgill said:

That's low. Murph is a straight shooter as far as I can tell. 

Media gets legal case stuff wrong ALL the bloody time. Look at the Hands up Don't Shoot Narrative. The political persuasion of the officers and department not withstanding. Same for the Rayshard Brooks Shooting in Atlanta. We got riots out of that. Where'd the case go. Right, the shooting was justified. How'd the press cover it? Oh it was another shooting of a poor black man! Martin Zimmerman case, the same. The Kenosha Shooting, same. 

Simply being suspicious about the facts and wanting to see some  corroboration, oh noes!

More so. Read what he wrote: " Reading non-hysterical articles on the net leads me to believe this was what is called a "pattern and practice" issue that will not go well for that Sheriff's Office.  "

This points to a view that there seems to be smoke here and that its indicative of a fire, which is not exactly supportive of the agency in question. 
 

Thank you.  My years in IA have led me to be a bit more cautious until all the facts are known.

[Skywalkre]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:33 AM, Murph said:

Not at all

At least you're honest about the double standard.

On 2/23/2023 at 7:33 AM, Murph said:

Just because you think all cops are evil and as soon as someone accuses the cops of wrong doing they should be fired and prosecuted despite not knowing the truth.  "Your philosophy seems to be the typical democrat/liberal: "Sentence First!, then the trial." 

Never said any of the above.  What I have said is that it's pretty easy to make the argument today that a majority of cops are not good people and shouldn't be doing the job.  When blatant examples of misconduct (or even lawful conduct that is still deplorable) occur cops don't deserve any less condemnation than anyone else.  That double standard is something I've railed against on here for years.  Take a look at yourself... you're totally fine with calling all Ds childish names like 'demonrats' or whatever and calling the entire FBI worthless and corrupt.  For everything to remotely support that condemnation there is far more for local police out there.  Yes... there are a lot more police than say the FBI... but there are that many cases of blatant and inappropriate conduct (and that's what we're able to actually see... who knows how much more is going on).  What's posted here on TN barely scratches the surface... yet yourself and others are so quick to go "wait, wait... maybe there's something we're missing"  No... we're not.

[Murph]

Sorry but the MAJORITY of cops are decent hard working people.  At least the ones I have worked with.  Most are willing to do what it takes to keep the citizens safe.  The problem is that bad apples make it so that cops have to be 100% correct 100% of the time, are NEVER able to make a mistake, to be constantly perfect.  It is so easy to look at a cop who made a mistake under pressure and go "EVIL! EVIL! HE MADE A MISTAKE, HANG HIM!"  I am not perfect, far from it, but I sure as heck tried to always do the right thing.  I would say that the vast majority of cops try to do it despite being targets of the media, the courts, the prosecutors, scumbag lawyers, and scumbag self appointed "Guardians of morality" and other activists.  AS for the FBI, they manage to keep covering up their malfeasance, so it never for some reason gets to see the light of day.  

And despite what is posted on Tanknet that is perfect, unassailable, how many times has it turned out to be wrong?  All I ask is fairness, a complete investigation into all the facts, and treating people as innocent until found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

Never said any of the above.  What I have said is that it's pretty easy to make the argument today that a majority of cops are not good people and shouldn't be doing the job. 
 

Its easy to make the argument. Its harder to substantiate said argument. 

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

When blatant examples of misconduct (or even lawful conduct that is still deplorable) occur cops don't deserve any less condemnation than anyone else. 

And I think you can get republicans to do that than Democrats. 

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

That double standard is something I've railed against on here for years.  Take a look at yourself... you're totally fine with calling all Ds childish names like 'demonrats' or whatever and calling the entire FBI worthless and corrupt.

Yes. And when the FBI is used for clearly partisan reasons, with repeated observable examples of the DOJ accepting such partisan corruption, what then? 

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

  For everything to remotely support that condemnation there is far more for local police out there.  Yes... there are a lot more police than say the FBI... but there are that many cases of blatant and inappropriate conduct (and that's what we're able to actually see... who knows how much more is going on). 

The presumption was that the FBI was above all of that. Or even state agencies. 
 

The left asserts such a corruption in Georgia across DeKalb, Fulton and state agencies with regards to the handling of the squatters, sorry tree defenders in south east Atlanta. Are they right? 

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

What's posted here on TN barely scratches the surface... yet yourself and others are so quick to go "wait, wait... maybe there's something we're missing"  No... we're not.

So accusations always carry weight? I have a cousin who died under suspicious circumstances in South East Ga. In Ludowici county no less. Are my family's accusations thus 100% sure because they are made? 

[rmgill]

Fair and impartial investigations, such a high bar if it cuts against the liberal narrative. 

[sunday]

11 hours ago, rmgill said:

Fair and impartial investigations, such a high bar if it cuts against the liberal narrative. 

Thus Arizona has the best electoral system in the whole Universe.

[rmgill]

How dare you question what government officials say is entirely above board!!

[Skywalkre]

Speaking of AZ...

Quote

Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes released on Wednesday documents related to the investigation into the 2020 general election, proving there was no widespread fraud or wrongdoing. Officials are now calling out former Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich for reportedly withholding the information. The Attorney General’s Office said that agents and staff under Brnovich spent 10,000 hours looking at any possible irregularities and pieces of evidence of voter fraud but didn’t find any. “In each instance and in each matter, the aforementioned parties did not provide any evidence to support their allegations. The information that was provided was speculative in many instances and when investigated by our agents and support staff, was found to be inaccurate,” a statement said.

Mayes, a Democrat, told Arizona’s Family her office recently found evidence that shows Brnovich, a Republican, was well aware that the investigation showed there was no big conspiracy or elaborate scheme to influence the 2020 election in Arizona yet refused to release those findings to the public. “We have a duty, a solemn duty, at the Attorney General’s Office to be honest and transparent with people of Arizona about everything we do and especially when it comes to democracy and elections,” she said.

According to the documents, Attorney General’s Office staff under Brnovich found complaints and allegations from the public about the 2020 election were overwhelmingly unsupported by factual evidence. “The results of this exhaustive and extensive investigation show what we have suspected for over two years – the 2020 election in Arizona was conducted fairly and accurately by elections officials,” said Mayes. She also adds that the office looked at “every conspiracy theory under the sun,” saying it “distracted this office from its core mission of protecting the people of Arizona from real crime and fraud.”

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/02/22/arizona-ag-kris-mayes-unveils-previously-unreleased-2020-election-investigation-documents/

10k hours wasted on investigating nothing which could have been spent on other, real work (that's an interesting take I haven't thought of before).  Then the R AG doesn't release it (but to be fair to him, he gave more vague hints later) to help his own Senate run.

The really sad thing is there's going to be folks who still think this election was stolen even after this comes out.  🙄

[rmgill]

Curious... would you be just as critical if this were a story about someone who was a D politician as you are because various R officials are involved?

[Skywalkre]

Yep.

[rmgill]

Are you sure? 

[Skywalkre]

Yep... and if you bothered to read my posts you'd see I don't just pick on Rs.  The point is so many of you are practically drooling at the chance of posting anything even remotely negative about Ds (before we know if it's even true) that there's no point in me following up. 

If you wanted to be sure, we could attach a poll to every post so folks could vote that they agree what was mentioned was wrong (this last sentence is sarcasm, btw...).

[Skywalkre]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:08 PM, Murph said:

Sorry but the MAJORITY of cops are decent hard working people. 

If 49.9% of all cops out there are good people that's a lot of cops still... but they'd still be a minority.  I'm not saying no cop is good... they're just a minority as shown by the flood of stories of bad behavior and, most importantly, how said bad cops are usually protected and taken care of.  Organizations full of good people don't do that.

On 2/25/2023 at 3:08 PM, Murph said:

And despite what is posted on Tanknet that is perfect, unassailable, how many times has it turned out to be wrong?  All I ask is fairness, a complete investigation into all the facts, and treating people as innocent until found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'm in full agreement... and that should apply to everyone and not just cops (the whole double standard we live in in this country in regards to them needs to stop).  Sometimes the facts are plainfully obvious to see (such as many of the incidents posted here in this thread) so just because a court hasn't ruled (if the case even makes it there) it's bloody obvious the accused are dirtbags.

[Skywalkre]

Been meaning to post this example.  Spotted a story about it on reddit a few days back even though it happened years ago.

Quote

Former Jackson County Sheriff’s Deputy Zachary Wester will spend the next 12 years in prison, after being found guilty of planting drugs on multiple motorists.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2021/07/13/zachary-wester-sentenced-former-florida-deputy-drug-planting/7951871002/

Apparently over a hundred convictions had to be tossed because of this chump.  He was discovered because a prosecutor basically found it odd one officer was responsible for so many arrests and was warned about this guy from public defenders.  On her own she started viewing his body cam footage and spotted several examples of the officer planting the drugs on innocent people. 

This prosecutor, who should be lauded for her work (she took this up on her own free time to review all the footage) ended up quitting because, in her words, "I don’t want to work in an environment that allows this to happen."  Sounds like a DA office that needs to be cleaned out, as well (this is a whole 'nother issue... of prosecutors hesitant to prosecute police for fear of a lack of cooperation after the fact... which begs the question why is anyone going to object to bad cops being prosecuted?).

 

[NickM]

Hmmm... my newsfeed popped out a story about the opposition to  cop city in Atlanta and "Kill-adelphia".

Guess the crackpipe huffers have pull, somehow 

[rmgill]

Yep. Proposed Atlanta City Police and Fire training facility here. 

The lefties have been camping there for something like 2 years. They want to preserve the forest that is on the remains of the old Atlanta Prison farm, bracketed between 2 waste disposal dumps (covered and terraced), a water waste reclamation plant, and a juvenile detention center. You can see the dirtbike trails in and around the old prison farm ruins. 

The hippies have been living east of the farm iirc. 

 

[NickM]

5 hours ago, rmgill said:

Yep. Proposed Atlanta City Police and Fire training facility here. 

The lefties have been camping there for something like 2 years. They want to preserve the forest that is on the remains of the old Atlanta Prison farm, bracketed between 2 waste disposal dumps (covered and terraced), a water waste reclamation plant, and a juvenile detention center. You can see the dirtbike trails in and around the old prison farm ruins. 

The hippies have been living east of the farm iirc. 

 

Yeah the 'pearl clutching' by the story writers is 'annoying'.

[rmgill]

7 hours ago, NickM said:

Yeah the 'pearl clutching' by the story writers is 'annoying'.

Did you not see the Democracy Now interview I posted a few weeks back? 

New Drinking game. take a shot of Bud light every time they use euphemistic language. By the end of the video, you'll be drunk off your ass and will have been to the bathroom 3 times. 
 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by rmgill