When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[sunday]

This is funny. It could be that from 1484 onwards persons accused in front of the Spanish Inquisition had some legal advantages that people investigated by the FBI as of now have not:

Quote

The accused were given the opportunity to submit the names of anyone who had a grudge against them or whose testimony could not be relied upon. In one case, a local magistrate submitted the names of all the people he had ever convicted, and the charges against him were dismissed out of hand. The Inquisition followed the canonical procedure of “publishing the acts,” equivalent to discovery in the American system, so that defendants and their lawyers could answer all the evidence laid against them.

source

[rmgill]

3 hours ago, Sardaukar said:

I know you know what you talk about...

And that is fookin creepy. 

It is almost like "guilty has been found, now crime will be found too"...

When interviewing suspects the FBI does not record the interviews. The 2 agents conducting the interview write up a report (the 302 form) after the fact for what they recall the subject saying. That report is used as the basis for if the subject lied to law enforcement or not, among other things. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/498694-why-the-fbi-doesnt-record-interviews/

For even more wtf, the FBI conducted a 'raid' on a safe deposit box repository in LA. Supposedly the facility was closing or something and some how the facility was involved in criminal doings, so the entire contents of the facility must be the subject of criminal wrong doings and thus all the deposits are subject to seizure. Sort of like if the bank was committing a crime then all their depositors accounts are thus subject to seizure. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by rmgill

[Sardaukar]

Just now, rmgill said:

When interviewing suspects the FBI does not record the interviews. The 2 agents conducting the interview write up a report (the 302 form) after the fact for what they recall the subject saying. That report is used as the basis for if the subject lied to law enforcement or not, among other things. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/498694-why-the-fbi-doesnt-record-interviews/

I am not in disagreement here.

[EchoFiveMike]

Quote

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

S/F....Ken M

[sunday]

Indeed.

[MiloMorai]

More shame in Uvalde. Say what you want but it looks like it is CNN that is breaking the news on the mess in Uvalde.

Acting Uvalde police chief knew several children were still alive, but failed to act, CNN report says | kens5.com

Three minutes after arriving at the school knew there was children alive and 30  minutes later knew thru 911 that there was still children alive.

All the cops that were there should be fired and the officers that should have been in charged, should somehow spend time in jail,

[Murph]

2 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

More shame in Uvalde. Say what you want but it looks like it is CNN that is breaking the news on the mess in Uvalde.

Acting Uvalde police chief knew several children were still alive, but failed to act, CNN report says | kens5.com

Three minutes after arriving at the school knew there was children alive and 30  minutes later knew thru 911 that there was still children alive.

All the cops that were there should be fired and the officers that should have been in charged, should somehow spend time in jail,

Show a little patience, it is slowly working its way through the system.  You have to follow the rules or the bad people get their jobs back after lawsuits.  The "i's" have to be dotted, and the "t's" crossed.  It is not a fast process unless you want them to get their job back after a lawsuit (with back pay).  

[Murph]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:51 PM, rmgill said:

When interviewing suspects the FBI does not record the interviews. The 2 agents conducting the interview write up a report (the 302 form) after the fact for what they recall the subject saying. That report is used as the basis for if the subject lied to law enforcement or not, among other things. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/498694-why-the-fbi-doesnt-record-interviews/

For even more wtf, the FBI conducted a 'raid' on a safe deposit box repository in LA. Supposedly the facility was closing or something and some how the facility was involved in criminal doings, so the entire contents of the facility must be the subject of criminal wrong doings and thus all the deposits are subject to seizure. Sort of like if the bank was committing a crime then all their depositors accounts are thus subject to seizure. 

I lived in a recorded world, every single interview we had either in person, or one the phone was recorded so there was no mystery about what was said.  The FBI goes back and writes down what they THINK you said, and unfortunately the courts accept this at face value.  If you want to stop an FBI interview, pull out a recorder and turn it on.  They will walk away they are so terrified of being recorded.  One of my former co workers was being interviewed years ago by the FBI and he pulled out a recorder and turned it on, the agents stopped the interview in anger, and he never heard from the FBI again is what he told me.  

[Ivanhoe]

47 minutes ago, Murph said:

 The FBI goes back and writes down what they WANT you to have said, and unfortunately the courts accept this at face value. 

FIFY

[Murph]

2 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

FIFY

Yours is probably the most accurate.

[Murph]

And the hits just keep on coming.  

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/11/18/audio-shows-dps-was-aware-children-were-trapped-in-robb-elementary-30-minutes-before-classroom-was-breached-cnn-reports/

[EchoFiveMike]

The civil "justice" system need to be eliminated.  All it does is provide a distraction from actual justice and smokescreen for criminals.

Money isn't justice, it's bribing victims to shut-up and go away.  You don't punish things; you punish people.  Taking money from people who conjure money out of thin air, or worse use other people's money isn't punishment...not of the guilty anyways.   S/F.....Ken M

   

[MiloMorai]

4 hours ago, Murph said:

And the hits just keep on coming.  

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/11/18/audio-shows-dps-was-aware-children-were-trapped-in-robb-elementary-30-minutes-before-classroom-was-breached-cnn-reports/

Yes I posted that on Tuesday.

[Sardaukar]

That is very typical when no-one is in charge.

And especially when no-one is willing to take the charge.

[Murph]

3 hours ago, Sardaukar said:

That is very typical when no-one is in charge.

And especially when no-one is willing to take the charge.

That is typical in todays risk averse litigation terrified environment.

[Murph]

3 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

Yes I posted that on Tuesday.

Yeah hit the local news today.

[MiloMorai]

KSAT is a San Antonio TV station.

[Murph]

11 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

KSAT is a San Antonio TV station.

Yep.  Sometimes they are a little slow to report things.  But I think they have the best weather reporting.  They have been following it, but a lot is just recaps of what we already know.  I DO know there is a lot of pressure on the DPS director to step down.  He might decide to go later, but he has his FBI retirement, and I think he is holding on for his DPS retirement as well.  

[Tim Sielbeck]

 

[R011]

1 hour ago, Tim Sielbeck said:

 

They shouldn't have moved the sword and may well have been trying to set up a crime scene,, but in order to charge them with evidence tampering, they'd want a easonable chance of conviction.  Unless they claimed in their report that the victim had the sword with him outside the apartment rasther than they moved it themselves for some inoccuous reason, I doubt they could prove the ase beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Murph]

Agencies pay to avoid bigger issues.  Also I have no idea how large or small this agency was, and what their level of training is/was.  In the old days, our deputies were taught to find the weapon, and secure it, partly because EMS would not come into a scene with a weapon visible/available.  So they would take weapons and lock them in the trunks of their patrol cars.  We changed that, and had to tell EMS to suck it up cupcake, but that was a 3-4 year battle with the EMS people.  Also NO ONE can destroy a crime scene faster than Paramedics and volunteer Firemen, I have seen this in real life.  Not because they are intentionally doing it, no, their objective is to save lives, not worry about crime scenes.  

Context is critical, I will watch the video later in its entirity, and see what I think.  I despise First Amendment "Auditors" since all they are attempting to do is create controversy.  I truly loathe those guys.  

[R011]

2 hours ago, Murph said:

Agencies pay to avoid bigger issues.  Also I have no idea how large or small this agency was, and what their level of training is/was.  In the old days, our deputies were taught to find the weapon, and secure it, partly because EMS would not come into a scene with a weapon visible/available.  So they would take weapons and lock them in the trunks of their patrol cars.  We changed that, and had to tell EMS to suck it up cupcake, but that was a 3-4 year battle with the EMS people.  Also NO ONE can destroy a crime scene faster than Paramedics and volunteer Firemen, I have seen this in real life.  Not because they are intentionally doing it, no, their objective is to save lives, not worry about crime scenes.  

Context is critical, I will watch the video later in its entirity, and see what I think.  I despise First Amendment "Auditors" since all they are attempting to do is create controversy.  I truly loathe those guys.  

The key takeaway from the video seems to be that the cops demanded an unarmed, non threatening 75 year old to both get down and to step outside and he refused.  Tasered immediately without warning or further attempts to talk to him.  The officers seemed to have been very quick to take a complainant's word at face value, without physical evidence, spending minimal time talking to her.

[Tim Sielbeck]

https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2022/12/15/homeless-vet-brutally-beaten-by-colorado-springs-police/

[Murph]

2 hours ago, R011 said:

The key takeaway from the video seems to be that the cops demanded an unarmed, non threatening 75 year old to both get down and to step outside and he refused.  Tasered immediately without warning or further attempts to talk to him.  The officers seemed to have been very quick to take a complainant's word at face value, without physical evidence, spending minimal time talking to her.

Bad training, and bad department policy.  Although what part of the city was this?  A low crime, low threat area, or the projects where some random old guy will smoke you in a heartbeat?  Not excusing bad police work, but I need a little more context.  On the face of it, it looks bad, but is there more to the story?  If they were wrong, they need to be punished.  Also where was the supervisor?

[Murph]

13 minutes ago, Tim Sielbeck said:

https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2022/12/15/homeless-vet-brutally-beaten-by-colorado-springs-police/

Again context?  What was the interaction?  I could not get the video to play.   Was the video the un-edited body camera video?