When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[DKTanker]

Simply put Police Officer Stephen Mader was terminated from his employment with the Weirton PD because he failed to shoot to kill first, ask questions later. But I, and a few others of like mind, are crazy when we say there is a nation wide sense among the various state, local, and federal police agencies that all citizens are unquestionably the enemy who must be put down, as one might a dog, at any sign that would remotely suggest armed resistance. From the street thug committing an armed robbery, to the guy who says "I do have a gun, let me show you my permit", to the guy who says, "Please shoot me and end my life" we're all the same to the guys wearing a badge and gun. Target practice.

[JWB]

 

 

Etowah sheriff pockets $750k in jail food funds, buys $740k beach house

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2018/03/etowah_sheriff_pocketed_over_7.html

[Murph]

That is neither true, nor fair.

 

Simply put Police Officer Stephen Mader was terminated from his employment with the Weirton PD because he failed to shoot to kill first, ask questions later. But I, and a few others of like mind, are crazy when we say there is a nation wide sense among the various state, local, and federal police agencies that all citizens are unquestionably the enemy who must be put down, as one might a dog, at any sign that would remotely suggest armed resistance. From the street thug committing an armed robbery, to the guy who says "I do have a gun, let me show you my permit", to the guy who says, "Please shoot me and end my life" we're all the same to the guys wearing a badge and gun. Target practice.

[Cinaruco]

What is your take in officer's Mader incident Murph?

 

Seems to me he did nothing wrong, the potential threat was terminated without possible incident, this looks wrong to me.

[R011]

I took it as objecting to the broad brush claim that all cops are trigger happy and we're all targets. No doubt Murph will clarify.

[DougRichards]

Now I don't blame the arriving officers for shooting a guy who points a gun at them, and there seems to have been some miscommunication, and it is a lawsuit where both sides will claim anything after all - but firing the first officer on the scene for refusing the guy's demand for suicide by cop? Come on.

 

‘Just shoot me,’ an armed man told a cop. The officer didn’t — and was fired, his lawsuit claimed.

by Amy B Wang and Kristine Phillips February 12 at 2:18 PM

 

On this much, at least, everyone agreed: A brief standoff on May 6, 2016 — which left one police officer without a job and another man dead — unfolded with mere seconds to make the most crucial decisions.

 

That night, Stephen Mader, then an officer with the Weirton Police Department in West Virginia, responded to a domestic-dispute call. Once at the scene, he encountered a “visibly distraught” man named Ronald J. Williams, court documents said.

 

As Mader ordered the man to show his hands, Williams did, revealing a handgun. Mader ordered him to drop the weapon.

 

“I can’t do that,” Williams responded, according to court documents. “Just shoot me.”

 

Even as Mader attempted to de-escalate the situation, Williams pleaded repeatedly: “Just shoot me.”

 

Mader, who is white, didn’t shoot, thinking deadly force wasn’t necessary. In those tense moments, he reasoned that Williams, who was black, was a threat to himself but not to others.

 

But as Mader was attempting to talk Williams down, two more Weirton police officers arrived on the scene. As they did, Williams raised his gun — and was shot and killed by another officer.

 

A month after the incident, Mader would be fired from the department for “failing to meet probationary standards of an officer” and “apparent difficulties in critical incident reasoning.” He would also be publicly accused of having frozen and privately called a “coward” by a colleague, court documents revealed.

 

In the months of public scrutiny that would ensue, Weirton officials maintained that Mader was fired for other reasons in addition to his encounter with Williams.

 

Mader, now 27, fought back. In a federal lawsuit filed against his former employer last May, Mader said Williams wanted to commit “suicide by cop” — and the handgun he was carrying was not loaded.

 

He claimed his decision not to shoot Williams cost him his job as a police officer in Weirton, a city near the Pennsylvania border, about 35 miles west of Pittsburgh.

 

After months of legal proceedings, Mader and the city of Weirton reached a settlement for $175,000 to dismiss the lawsuit, the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia announced Monday.

 

[...]

 

The incident was prompted by a call from Williams’s girlfriend, who said Williams was threatening to kill himself with a knife. After finding out that an officer was on the way, Williams got his unloaded handgun from his car, saying he would get the officer to shoot him, according to the complaint.

 

The woman called 911 again and told the dispatcher that Williams had a gun but it was not loaded. But Mader did not know that when he arrived at the scene because that information was not radioed to him or to the two other officers who arrived later, said Timothy O’Brien, Mader’s attorney.

 

Mader tried to persuade Williams to drop the gun, believing he was “not aggressive or violent,” the complaint said. But Williams, his hands to his side, pleaded with Mader over and over to just shoot him.

 

The two other officers arrived. At that point, Williams waved the unloaded gun, and one of the two officers fatally shot him.

 

Hancock County Prosecutor James W. Davis Jr. believed that the shooting was justified. In court proceedings, Ryan Kuzma, the officer who shot and killed Williams, defended his decision to use deadly force with “mere seconds” to evaluate the situation.

 

“If he felt so strongly that Mr. Williams was attempting suicide by cop, he could have tackled him,” Kuzma said, according to court documents. “He could have stood in between. He could have moved.… I was faced with a situation where a guy has a gun, and he is waving it back and forth pointing it at me, that I had to react. And there was no reaction out of Mr. Mader.”

 

City officials held a news conference shortly after the Post-Gazette story was published, saying the Williams shooting was not the only reason they fired Mader. A news release from the city described two other incidents that officials say led to Mader’s termination. One involved allegedly mishandling a death investigation by failing to determine that it was a homicide. The other involved allegedly searching a man’s vehicle without probable cause or a search warrant and cursing at the man’s wife. In the Williams shooting, officials said, Mader “froze” and did not communicate with the other officers at the scene.

 

“We had done different avenues in terms of retraining, placing him with a different training officer,” City Manager Travis Blosser told reporters. “None of those seemed to work.”

 

But O’Brien said neither of the two other incidents resulted in disciplinary action against Mader. In the one about the mishandled death investigation, other officers more senior than Mader were at the crime scene, he said.

 

O’Brien added that he had talked to the woman who was cursed at and that she said she complained about the conduct of another officer, not Mader.

 

O’Brien said officials fired Mader “to give themselves cover for the use of force on the part of the other officer” and that they painted him as a bad officer in retaliation for speaking publicly about the termination.

 

According to court documents, Kuzma, the officer who shot Williams, texted Mader after the news conference, calling him a “coward” who “didn’t have the balls to save [his] own life” and accusing Mader and his mother of being “loud mouth pieces of s—” for talking to reporters.

 

Mader’s attorney said they were “pleased” by the settlement but disappointed that Mader’s decision not to shoot was questioned. Mader was hired as a probationary officer for the Weirton Police Department in June 2015 and completed training at the West Virginia State Police Academy later that year. He also is a Marine and an Afghanistan war veteran, O’Brien added.

 

“No police officer should ever lose their job — or have their name dragged through the mud — for choosing to talk to, rather than shoot, a fellow citizen,” O’Brien said. “His decision to attempt to de-escalate the situation should have been praised, not punished. Simply put, no police officer should ever feel forced to take a life unnecessarily to save his career.”

 

Jack Dolance, an attorney for the Williams family, said last May that the family believes Mader did the right thing.

 

“He took his time and looked at R.J. as a person and not a dangerous subject,” Dolance told CNN.

 

Mader no longer works as a police officer but as a truck driver, and he continues living in Weirton with his family, the ACLU said.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/12/an-officer-who-was-fired-after-refusing-to-shoot-an-armed-man-just-won-175000-in-a-settlement/?utm_term=.6a665bec73d6

 

This is an example of where a judicial officer - a Coroner - could use their powers to investigate the circumstances and decide who was at fault, not an elected prosecutor.

[Murph]

I did not hear about that one.

What is your take in officer's Mader incident Murph?

 

Seems to me he did nothing wrong, the potential threat was terminated without possible incident, this looks wrong to me.

[Murph]

Not all cops are trigger happy, in fact the majority of cops are the opposite. I, myself, have been in one shooting, and have had numerous times in the last 25 years that I could have legally, morally, and justifiably shot someone, but did not. Three specific instances I got asked by other cops and the Sheriff: "Why did you not shoot the guy?" And in each incident, I told them, that I did not think that it had gotten to that point yet, and they all agreed. In each of our shootings over the last 25 years, the time elapsed from start to finish was an average of 11 seconds. I know this because we looked at shootings recently. Mine was an outlier at 90 seconds with over 25 rounds fired (18 by the bad guy). I know it was 90 seconds based on radio traffic by me to dispatch. 99% of cops go through their careers and never, ever fire a shot in anger. The 1% guys, well, it sucks. To broad brush cops is not only wrong, but immoral and stupid to score virtue signaling points. I advocate a nationwide "Blue Flu" for two days, so that people can see what a day without cops is like. I suspect they would not like it. As for the officer not shooting on the Mader incident, I'll check into it, but it looks like the command saw something that was not right, and they don't want their officers placing themselves in worse danger and maybe getting killed.

 

Our last Capital Murder, a very nice husband and wife pair were shot with a .270 rifle, and as the wife lay bleeding in the driveway (she died at the hospital), our guys showed up, could not locate the shooter, but unlike Broward County went in, and put the victim in the back of the pickup truck and escorted her out of the danger zone to the ambulance. If the killer had wanted us, he could have had three or four of our deputies from his hide. He was taken into custody unharmed. No deputy fired a round. So I guess we are not trigger happy....to bad for virtue signaling.

I took it as objecting to the broad brush claim that all cops are trigger happy and we're all targets. No doubt Murph will clarify.

[Murph]

The money quotes are in bold.

Now I don't blame the arriving officers for shooting a guy who points a gun at them, and there seems to have been some miscommunication, and it is a lawsuit where both sides will claim anything after all - but firing the first officer on the scene for refusing the guy's demand for suicide by cop? Come on.

 

‘Just shoot me,’ an armed man told a cop. The officer didn’t — and was fired, his lawsuit claimed.

by Amy B Wang and Kristine Phillips February 12 at 2:18 PM

 

On this much, at least, everyone agreed: A brief standoff on May 6, 2016 — which left one police officer without a job and another man dead — unfolded with mere seconds to make the most crucial decisions.

 

That night, Stephen Mader, then an officer with the Weirton Police Department in West Virginia, responded to a domestic-dispute call. Once at the scene, he encountered a “visibly distraught” man named Ronald J. Williams, court documents said.

 

As Mader ordered the man to show his hands, Williams did, revealing a handgun. Mader ordered him to drop the weapon.

 

“I can’t do that,” Williams responded, according to court documents. “Just shoot me.”

 

Even as Mader attempted to de-escalate the situation, Williams pleaded repeatedly: “Just shoot me.”

 

Mader, who is white, didn’t shoot, thinking deadly force wasn’t necessary. In those tense moments, he reasoned that Williams, who was black, was a threat to himself but not to others.

 

But as Mader was attempting to talk Williams down, two more Weirton police officers arrived on the scene. As they did, Williams raised his gun — and was shot and killed by another officer.

 

A month after the incident, Mader would be fired from the department for “failing to meet probationary standards of an officer” and “apparent difficulties in critical incident reasoning.” He would also be publicly accused of having frozen and privately called a “coward” by a colleague, court documents revealed.

 

In the months of public scrutiny that would ensue, Weirton officials maintained that Mader was fired for other reasons in addition to his encounter with Williams.

 

Mader, now 27, fought back. In a federal lawsuit filed against his former employer last May, Mader said Williams wanted to commit “suicide by cop” — and the handgun he was carrying was not loaded.

 

He claimed his decision not to shoot Williams cost him his job as a police officer in Weirton, a city near the Pennsylvania border, about 35 miles west of Pittsburgh.

 

After months of legal proceedings, Mader and the city of Weirton reached a settlement for $175,000 to dismiss the lawsuit, the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia announced Monday.

 

[...]

 

The incident was prompted by a call from Williams’s girlfriend, who said Williams was threatening to kill himself with a knife. After finding out that an officer was on the way, Williams got his unloaded handgun from his car, saying he would get the officer to shoot him, according to the complaint.

 

The woman called 911 again and told the dispatcher that Williams had a gun but it was not loaded. But Mader did not know that (THIS IS THE MONEY QUOTE: We only know what dispatch tells us on the radio.) when he arrived at the scene because that information was not radioed to him or to the two other officers who arrived later (BINGO!!!), said Timothy O’Brien, Mader’s attorney.

 

Mader tried to persuade Williams to drop the gun, believing he was “not aggressive or violent,” the complaint said. But Williams, his hands to his side, pleaded with Mader over and over to just shoot him.

 

The two other officers arrived. At that point, Williams waved the unloaded gun, and one of the two officers fatally shot him.

 

Hancock County Prosecutor James W. Davis Jr. believed that the shooting was justified. In court proceedings, Ryan Kuzma, the officer who shot and killed Williams, defended his decision to use deadly force with “mere seconds” to evaluate the situation. (NO sh*t Sherlock, Monday morning quarterbacking in great, not so good when you are there)

 

“If he felt so strongly that Mr. Williams was attempting suicide by cop, he could have tackled him,” Kuzma said, according to court documents. “He could have stood in between. He could have moved.… I was faced with a situation where a guy has a gun, and he is waving it back and forth pointing it at me, that I had to react. And there was no reaction out of Mr. Mader.” (Did Mader communicate with the other officers? Did he tell them what was going on? That is the problem here, as I see it)

 

City officials held a news conference shortly after the Post-Gazette story was published, saying the Williams shooting was not the only reason they fired Mader. A news release from the city described two other incidents that officials say led to Mader’s termination. One involved allegedly mishandling a death investigation by failing to determine that it was a homicide. The other involved allegedly searching a man’s vehicle without probable cause or a search warrant ( Ah, I see the problem here, this is a no-no. Also could he have been rightfully terminated based on performance, and communication issues?)and cursing at the man’s wife. In the Williams shooting, officials said, Mader “froze” and did not communicate with the other officers at the scene (BINGO! Rocket science here).

 

“We had done different avenues in terms of retraining, placing him with a different training officer,” City Manager Travis Blosser told reporters. “None of those seemed to work.”

 

But O’Brien said neither of the two other incidents resulted in disciplinary action against Mader. In the one about the mishandled death investigation, other officers more senior than Mader were at the crime scene, he said.

 

O’Brien added that he had talked to the woman who was cursed at and that she said she complained about the conduct of another officer, not Mader.

 

O’Brien said officials fired Mader “to give themselves cover for the use of force on the part of the other officer” and that they painted him as a bad officer in retaliation for speaking publicly about the termination.

 

According to court documents, Kuzma, the officer who shot Williams, texted Mader after the news conference, calling him a “coward” who “didn’t have the balls to save [his] own life” and accusing Mader and his mother of being “loud mouth pieces of s—” for talking to reporters.

 

Mader’s attorney said they were “pleased” by the settlement but disappointed that Mader’s decision not to shoot was questioned. Mader was hired as a probationary officer for the Weirton Police Department in June 2015 and completed training at the West Virginia State Police Academy later that year. He also is a Marine and an Afghanistan war veteran, O’Brien added.

 

“No police officer should ever lose their job — or have their name dragged through the mud — for choosing to talk to, rather than shoot, a fellow citizen,” O’Brien said. “His decision to attempt to de-escalate the situation should have been praised, not punished. Simply put, no police officer should ever feel forced to take a life unnecessarily to save his career.”

 

Jack Dolance, an attorney for the Williams family, said last May that the family believes Mader did the right thing.

 

“He took his time and looked at R.J. as a person and not a dangerous subject,” Dolance told CNN.

 

Mader no longer works as a police officer but as a truck driver, and he continues living in Weirton with his family, the ACLU said.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/12/an-officer-who-was-fired-after-refusing-to-shoot-an-armed-man-just-won-175000-in-a-settlement/?utm_term=.6a665bec73d6

[BansheeOne]

As I said, I don't blame the officers who arrived freshly on the scene and promptly had a gun pointed at them, plus all the other caveats. The problematic part would be Mader's contention that he was fired as a scapegoat when the incident turned looking ugly because the gun was unloaded - even if none of the officers knew - and being called a coward by his former colleagues, which has to bite a former marine with a tour in Afghanistan. Depending upon how quick things happened, I thought the claim that he should have said something (what? "Don't shoot the guy pointing a gun at you right now, just a minute ago I thought he wasn't a danger to anyone") or tackled the guy (while he was waving said gun about?), but rather "froze" (for how long?) sounded a little too defensive and made it look like Mader should have known the weapon was unloaded, which he didn't either.

 

Obviously in the end, none of us were there, and it's entirely possible he was terminated due to making an overall lacking impression during his probation, including the illegal car search which seems undisputed. Though the counterclaim that the homicide case was also misjudged by a senior officer would hint at a tendency of the department to shift the blame on the green new guy to protect the old hands, and overall I thought firing an officer for not shooting somebody who turned out to be no actual thread was sending the wrong signal at a time when police already have to put up with farspread (and no doubt offen exaggerated) bad PR from unjustified or at least dubious shootings.

Edited March 20, 2018 by BansheeOne

[rmgill]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, bad police departments usually have bad leadership that allows or even encourages the bad behavior to progress.

As to the blue flu, It's arguable we already have that in major cities where the police are encouraged by command staff to downgrade crimes in order for stats to look better. Police response time to incidents in my area is around 20 Minutes, if it's a major issue.

[Brian Kennedy]

The problem we have in my city (a fairly large city in NorCal) is a combination of a fairly high crime rate and our police officers getting paid very high salaries average pay is low six figures. The result is we cant afford enough cops for the size of our city, although the cops we have are quite good. How it works out in practice is that violent crimes get investigated quickly and thoroughly, but car thefts etc basically meet with a shrug.

 

The counter argument to the above is the Celeste Guap scandal, which was just ridiculous...

[Murph]

Bad police come from bad leadership. It all starts at the top. Thank goodness my Sheriff does not tolerate any bs.

[DB]

This one in Houston doesn't look great from the outside looking in.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43574249

[rmgill]

Hmmmm... We don't see what was off the FOV at left. We don't know what he tried to do. I'd like to see witness statements and what the cop thought was about to happen.

 

Calling it premeditated murder is daft on the part of the family.

[rmgill]

Astonishing that someone didn't get shot.

http://www.leoaffairs.com/officers-attacked-minister-family-members-congregation-georgia/

My neighbor was astonished at the inability of the officers to control the situation.

[toysoldier]

Astonishing that someone didn't get shot.

 

http://www.leoaffairs.com/officers-attacked-minister-family-members-congregation-georgia/

 

My neighbor was astonished at the inability of the officers to control the situation.

 

Everybody got out alive and the worst bruising was to their egos. On this day and age is a win.

[Skywalkre]

A better example for this thread is the recent shooting in Sacramento. Initial reports aren't too redeeming for the police and apparently there have been issues going back decades between the police and the Black community there.

 

 

20 Shots in Sacramento: Stephon Clark Killing Reignites a Furor

 

SACRAMENTO — Two police officers, 10 minutes, 20 bullets. Another young black man dead, this time in his grandmother’s backyard in California’s capital.

 

...

 

Questions about excessive force hover over the case. A police helicopter was sent to a routine call. Officers fired 20 times at Mr. Clark. The police have also been accused of not giving Mr. Clark, who was unarmed, enough time to put his hands up and of waiting too long to call for medical help.

 

Adding to the scrutiny is the fact that the police muted their body cameras in the minutes after the shooting and can be seen on camera talking animatedly while Mr. Clark lay dead on the ground.

 

...

 

The case began with a report of property damage. On the evening of March 18, two officers from the Sacramento Police Department were dispatched to investigate a complaint that someone was breaking vehicle windows.

 

A helicopter from the Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department was also hovering over the scene looking for a potential suspect when it identified a man with a crowbar heading toward a nearby house.

 

A few minutes after responding to the call, with the apparent guidance from the sheriff’s helicopter, the city police officers spotted Mr. Clark, who they said ran from them. They followed him into the backyard and ordered him to show his hands, police video shows. Seconds later, in the dark, one officer shouted, “gun, gun, gun, gun!” and they shot 20 times at Mr. Clark. The officers believed Mr. Clark had a weapon and opened fire “fearing for their lives,” according to a police statement.

 

The entire encounter lasted roughly 10 minutes. The officers looked for a gun but all they found was a cellphone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/sacramento-stephon-clark.html

 

The case also reinforces the question of why the fuck are police not responsible for providing medical aid on the spot? As a medic in the Army my responsibility (and not just mine, CLS-trained soldiers as well) was to provide medical care for everyone I came across. Why can't police do the same?

Edited March 29, 2018 by Skywalkre

[rmgill]

Everybody got out alive and the worst bruising was to their egos. On this day and age is a win.

 

 

From a controlling the scene perspective and the fact that a kidnapping was what the issue was about, it was a failure of the officers to control the situation. It was inept.

[rmgill]

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/sacramento-stephon-clark.html

 

The case also reinforces the question of why the fuck are police not responsible for providing medical aid on the spot? As a medic in the Army my responsibility (and not just mine, CLS-trained soldiers as well) was to provide medical care for everyone I came across. Why can't police do the same?

They're not trained for it. And they'd get the shit sued out of them if they did.

[JWB]

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/sacramento-stephon-clark.html

 

The case also reinforces the question of why the fuck are police not responsible for providing medical aid on the spot? As a medic in the Army my responsibility (and not just mine, CLS-trained soldiers as well) was to provide medical care for everyone I came across. Why can't police do the same?

They're not trained for it. And they'd get the shit sued out of them if they did.

 

Some of them are. Department by department basis.

[Skywalkre]

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/sacramento-stephon-clark.html

 

The case also reinforces the question of why the fuck are police not responsible for providing medical aid on the spot? As a medic in the Army my responsibility (and not just mine, CLS-trained soldiers as well) was to provide medical care for everyone I came across. Why can't police do the same?

They're not trained for it. And they'd get the shit sued out of them if they did.

 

That's a why for why it's currently not being done but doesn't explain why they can't implement it. Legislation can be passed to give them protection from lawsuit when performing aid and the instruction needed is fairly basic. Given the threshold for use of deadly force is so low ("they twitched and I feared for my life!") it's not asking much for them to provide aid once the scene is secure in case they got it wrong (which this thread and others on here have plenty of examples of).

[Skywalkre]

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/sacramento-stephon-clark.html

 

The case also reinforces the question of why the fuck are police not responsible for providing medical aid on the spot? As a medic in the Army my responsibility (and not just mine, CLS-trained soldiers as well) was to provide medical care for everyone I came across. Why can't police do the same?

They're not trained for it. And they'd get the shit sued out of them if they did.

 

Some of them are. Department by department basis.

 

It's the first I've heard of it. It's good to hear, though. I'd love to know why it's not more commonplace.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Skywalkre

[DB]

Training costs money?

 

It's obvious from many (most?) of these incidents that training seems to stop at "point this end towards the enemy".

 

Actually, what's a typical duration of training for police recruits.

 

In the UK, 13 weeks is the basic course (e.g. at Hendon), with additional training required to be allowed to drive a police vehicle and perform other tasks. I have no idea how long the taser or firearms courses take.

 

There's also regular training on things like safe restraint techniques, but let;'s not forget also there will be diversity training.

[DougRichards]

A better example for this thread is the recent shooting in Sacramento. Initial reports aren't too redeeming for the police and apparently there have been issues going back decades between the police and the Black community there.

 

 

20 Shots in Sacramento: Stephon Clark Killing Reignites a Furor

 

SACRAMENTO — Two police officers, 10 minutes, 20 bullets. Another young black man dead, this time in his grandmother’s backyard in California’s capital.

 

...

 

Questions about excessive force hover over the case. A police helicopter was sent to a routine call. Officers fired 20 times at Mr. Clark. The police have also been accused of not giving Mr. Clark, who was unarmed, enough time to put his hands up and of waiting too long to call for medical help.

 

Adding to the scrutiny is the fact that the police muted their body cameras in the minutes after the shooting and can be seen on camera talking animatedly while Mr. Clark lay dead on the ground.

 

...

 

The case began with a report of property damage. On the evening of March 18, two officers from the Sacramento Police Department were dispatched to investigate a complaint that someone was breaking vehicle windows.

 

A helicopter from the Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department was also hovering over the scene looking for a potential suspect when it identified a man with a crowbar heading toward a nearby house.

 

A few minutes after responding to the call, with the apparent guidance from the sheriff’s helicopter, the city police officers spotted Mr. Clark, who they said ran from them. They followed him into the backyard and ordered him to show his hands, police video shows. Seconds later, in the dark, one officer shouted, “gun, gun, gun, gun!” and they shot 20 times at Mr. Clark. The officers believed Mr. Clark had a weapon and opened fire “fearing for their lives,” according to a police statement.

 

The entire encounter lasted roughly 10 minutes. The officers looked for a gun but all they found was a cellphone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/us/sacramento-stephon-clark.html

 

The case also reinforces the question of why the fuck are police not responsible for providing medical aid on the spot? As a medic in the Army my responsibility (and not just mine, CLS-trained soldiers as well) was to provide medical care for everyone I came across. Why can't police do the same?

 

In my country police routinely provide first aid to anyone and everyone they can at an incident , including to any person to whom they have had to use force, and usually assist the ambulance officers / paramedics when they arrive.

 

Then again, in my country there are just eight police commands covering the whole country (police forces being state / territory based - oh the horror I hear some say - what, no local elected sheriffs?) so training and equipment is more uniform than in places with much smaller jurisdictions. Police actions are not judged just by the local elected DA, but by various levels of appointed judicial bodies and court, including the coroner - who is a judicial officer and not an MD with some carriage of conducting an autopsy.

Edited March 31, 2018 by DougRichards