When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible

[Ol Paint]

4 hours ago, rmgill said:

Just as relevant as your "innocent until proven guilty" comment. 

Yes. And when was that? Perhaps you have the full timeline? 
 

ICE doesn't have the ability to deal with the large numbers because Biden opened the floodgates for 4 years. It's a tall order. Possible a civil suit could prevail. It also depends on what was said during the arrest and detention doesn't it? 

IT also does not help that some states have been issuing drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, KNOWINGLY. Which makes it harder to prove citizenship or legal residence with just a license doesn't it? 

Who's fault is that again? Used to be you could come and go from the US to Canada and Mexico with just a DL. You can't now. Why is that? 

Arrest everyone and let the courts sort it out?  Really?  That must make you a fan of Civil Asset Forfeiture, too--take all the money and let the citizen prove why he should get it back.  And of the belief that rights are doled out by the government.  The latter are positions that I know you do not hold, which is why I question your defense of ICE's handling of Mr. Retes, in this case.

All we have to go on are allegations, at this point, along with some contemporaneous news reports.  I already outlined a sequence of events based on reason. 

1. Raid occurs & George Retes is arrested but not investigated on the scene, probably because the raid was intended to round up a large number of suspects. 
   1. That's giving the officers the benefit of considerable allowance.  Detention should be brief and, frankly, should not extend to transporting someone to an off-scene processing facility.  To my mind, once the detainee is being placed in a vehicle, they're under arrest.  Mr. Retes contends that ICE did not make any attempt to establish his identity and citizenship at the scene, so how did they go from RAS & Detainment to PC & Arrest?
   2. It also assumes Mr. Retes wasn't being obstructionary at the scene--but even if he was, it simply leads to the next logical step.
2. Mr. Retes is transported to a processing facility
3. On reaching the facility, his possessions are going to be inventoried (including the contents of his wallet and any identification he's carrying) and he's fingerprinted and photographed.  At that point, law enforcement has everything they need to establish his identity and citizenship within a few hours, at most.
   1. I'll call BS on the "just a license" line.  Considering he's a military vet, there's plenty of records in the system to assist in this process.  What are the odds he has a veteran's ID in his wallet, alongside the license?

The idea that ICE can't expeditiously process the people arrested in the raid is hogwash.  You don't conduct a raid and arrest 200 people and not have enough personnel to process them back at the station/detention facility within a few hours.  How many officers were involved in the raid?  Each one is available to do the paperwork on the people they arrested, not to mention the staff at the detention facilities. 

Why did it take 72 hours to process 200 people?  Was there only one guy doing the paperwork?  

Again, this is assuming that there weren't some aggravating factors in play, but the lack of charges means we shouldn't assume the State is blameless and that Mr. Retes was deserving of 3 days in jail.  

I'll repeat: We'll see how the civil proceeding develops.  The ex-equine is well-tenderized, based on the limited info we currently have.

Doug

 

[NickM]

3 hours ago, Ol Paint said:

Arrest everyone and let the courts sort it out?  Really?  That must make you a fan of Civil Asset Forfeiture, too--take all the money and let the citizen prove why he should get it back.  And of the belief that rights are doled out by the government.  The latter are positions that I know you do not hold, which is why I question your defense of ICE's handling of Mr. Retes, in this case.

All we have to go on are allegations, at this point, along with some contemporaneous news reports.  I already outlined a sequence of events based on reason. 

1. Raid occurs & George Retes is arrested but not investigated on the scene, probably because the raid was intended to round up a large number of suspects. 
   1. That's giving the officers the benefit of considerable allowance.  Detention should be brief and, frankly, should not extend to transporting someone to an off-scene processing facility.  To my mind, once the detainee is being placed in a vehicle, they're under arrest.  Mr. Retes contends that ICE did not make any attempt to establish his identity and citizenship at the scene, so how did they go from RAS & Detainment to PC & Arrest?
   2. It also assumes Mr. Retes wasn't being obstructionary at the scene--but even if he was, it simply leads to the next logical step.
2. Mr. Retes is transported to a processing facility
3. On reaching the facility, his possessions are going to be inventoried (including the contents of his wallet and any identification he's carrying) and he's fingerprinted and photographed.  At that point, law enforcement has everything they need to establish his identity and citizenship within a few hours, at most.
   1. I'll call BS on the "just a license" line.  Considering he's a military vet, there's plenty of records in the system to assist in this process.  What are the odds he has a veteran's ID in his wallet, alongside the license?

The idea that ICE can't expeditiously process the people arrested in the raid is hogwash.  You don't conduct a raid and arrest 200 people and not have enough personnel to process them back at the station/detention facility within a few hours.  How many officers were involved in the raid?  Each one is available to do the paperwork on the people they arrested, not to mention the staff at the detention facilities. 

Why did it take 72 hours to process 200 people?  Was there only one guy doing the paperwork?  

Again, this is assuming that there weren't some aggravating factors in play, but the lack of charges means we shouldn't assume the State is blameless and that Mr. Retes was deserving of 3 days in jail.  

I'll repeat: We'll see how the civil proceeding develops.  The ex-equine is well-tenderized, based on the limited info we currently have.

Doug

 

Sounds reasonable enough==certainly more reasonable than the article; 

[Murph]

9 hours ago, Ol Paint said:

Arrest everyone and let the courts sort it out?  Really?  That must make you a fan of Civil Asset Forfeiture, too--take all the money and let the citizen prove why he should get it back.  And of the belief that rights are doled out by the government.  The latter are positions that I know you do not hold, which is why I question your defense of ICE's handling of Mr. Retes, in this case.

All we have to go on are allegations, at this point, along with some contemporaneous news reports.  I already outlined a sequence of events based on reason. 

1. Raid occurs & George Retes is arrested but not investigated on the scene, probably because the raid was intended to round up a large number of suspects. 
   1. That's giving the officers the benefit of considerable allowance.  Detention should be brief and, frankly, should not extend to transporting someone to an off-scene processing facility.  To my mind, once the detainee is being placed in a vehicle, they're under arrest.  Mr. Retes contends that ICE did not make any attempt to establish his identity and citizenship at the scene, so how did they go from RAS & Detainment to PC & Arrest?
   2. It also assumes Mr. Retes wasn't being obstructionary at the scene--but even if he was, it simply leads to the next logical step.
2. Mr. Retes is transported to a processing facility
3. On reaching the facility, his possessions are going to be inventoried (including the contents of his wallet and any identification he's carrying) and he's fingerprinted and photographed.  At that point, law enforcement has everything they need to establish his identity and citizenship within a few hours, at most.
   1. I'll call BS on the "just a license" line.  Considering he's a military vet, there's plenty of records in the system to assist in this process.  What are the odds he has a veteran's ID in his wallet, alongside the license?

The idea that ICE can't expeditiously process the people arrested in the raid is hogwash.  You don't conduct a raid and arrest 200 people and not have enough personnel to process them back at the station/detention facility within a few hours.  How many officers were involved in the raid?  Each one is available to do the paperwork on the people they arrested, not to mention the staff at the detention facilities. 

Why did it take 72 hours to process 200 people?  Was there only one guy doing the paperwork?  

Again, this is assuming that there weren't some aggravating factors in play, but the lack of charges means we shouldn't assume the State is blameless and that Mr. Retes was deserving of 3 days in jail.  

I'll repeat: We'll see how the civil proceeding develops.  The ex-equine is well-tenderized, based on the limited info we currently have.

Doug

 

My guess is that some or all refused to cooperate forcing them to ID them the hard way.  Just saying from experience with people who refuse to ID.  

[rmgill]

10 hours ago, Ol Paint said:

Arrest everyone and let the courts sort it out?  Really? 

You're attesting to facts not presented. Are you a mind reader? 

Do you know the basis for the initial arrest you speak of? Any facts at all other than the initial reports? You can do better than that. 

10 hours ago, Ol Paint said:

The latter are positions that I know you do not hold, which is why I question your defense of ICE's handling of Mr. Retes, in this case.

All we have to go on are allegations, at this point, along with some contemporaneous news reports.  I already outlined a sequence of events based on reason. 

What are the sources of these facts you present? Are you going to address the fact that California issues licenses to illegals as a matter of routine? 
 

10 hours ago, Ol Paint said:

Why did it take 72 hours to process 200 people?  Was there only one guy doing the paperwork?  

Well, you have all the answers, why don't you know this? I am sure KABC LA will have a full set of accurate and unimpeachable facts soon right? 

Also, the police HAVE been making mistakes for years. Yes. We want them to make less. Why is it SUDDENLY that federal police raids are so important to the left when criminal illegal aliens are the target that they find the time to get upset about use of force but ignore ALL of the other incidents over the past few decades? 

 

Edited October 26 by rmgill

[Skywalkre]

Times are changing, slowly.  A cop going "I feared for my life" isn't a get-out-of-jail card anymore.

For those that don't remember, this was the incident where a black woman called cops because she feared there may be a prowler at her home.  One of the cops (with so many red flags in his history you wonder how he was hired in the first place) freaked out after she went into her kitchen to take a pot of boiling water off the heat.

Quote

Sean Grayson murder trial: Former Illinois deputy guilty of murder

A jury has found a former Illinois sheriff's deputy guilty of second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Sonya Massey.

The trial began last week for Sean Grayson, the former Sangamon County deputy, in the fatal shooting of Massey in July 2024 after she called 911 to report a possible intruder at her home in Springfield, Illinois.

Grayson had been charged with a total of three counts in connection with Massey’s death -- first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a firearm and official misconduct. He pleaded not guilty to "all counts," his attorney told ABC News.

Following the seven-day trial, the jury was given the option of considering second-degree murder, according ABC station WLS in Chicago. Grayson's sentencing is set for Jan. 29, 2026. He could be sentenced from four to 20 years in prison, or be given probation.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/sonya-massey-murder-trial-juror-massey-family-cry/story?id=126936377

[Ivanhoe]

https://www.fox8live.com/2025/10/30/2-sheriffs-12-officers-arrested-mississippi-drug-trafficking-takedown/
 

Quote

 

SUNFLOWER COUNTY, Miss. (WLBT/Gray News) - Fourteen current and former law enforcement officers were among those arrested on drug-related charges by the FBI.

On Thursday, federal officials announced the arrests, which spanned multiple counties and multiple jurisdictions in Mississippi.

Those arrested include Washington County Sheriff Milton Gaston, Humphreys County Sheriff Bruce Williams, and Sunflower County Chief Deputy Marvin Flowers.

 

 

Quote

 

Acting U.S. Attorney Clay Joyner said the officers allegedly took bribes to allow or facilitate the transport of drugs in the Mississippi Delta, and that federal officials began the investigation after receiving complaints from drug dealers.

“This corruption permeated all levels, extended across multiple counties, multiple jurisdictions. The Department of Justice and its subset, the FBI, will not allow wrongdoers to get away with it,” said FBI Deputy Director Andrew Bailey.

 

11 different LE organizations. 

This is the part that I like; "after receiving complaints from drug dealers."

If you're going into the protection racket business, you should take care to price your services wisely. 

 

 

[NickM]

1 hour ago, Ivanhoe said:

https://www.fox8live.com/2025/10/30/2-sheriffs-12-officers-arrested-mississippi-drug-trafficking-takedown/
 

 

11 different LE organizations. 

This is the part that I like; "after receiving complaints from drug dealers."

If you're going into the protection racket business, you should take care to price your services wisely. 

 

 

Lemme guess: DEI po-pi?

[rmgill]

Could also be Dixie Mafia. 

[Murph]

Based on the names in that article, most likely DEI hires.  

[Murph]

On 10/29/2025 at 6:36 PM, Skywalkre said:

Times are changing, slowly.  A cop going "I feared for my life" isn't a get-out-of-jail card anymore.

For those that don't remember, this was the incident where a black woman called cops because she feared there may be a prowler at her home.  One of the cops (with so many red flags in his history you wonder how he was hired in the first place) freaked out after she went into her kitchen to take a pot of boiling water off the heat.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/sonya-massey-murder-trial-juror-massey-family-cry/story?id=126936377

In Texas it never was, but at least we investigate things like that, and don't knee jerk like elsewhere as a general rule except in huge cities who have to appease the mob/DEI crowd.  Every officer involved shooting gets a complete investigation, usually by the Texas Rangers.  I know, because I have helped the Ranger in several over the years.  

As for the facts, you were not there, so you can stop your "ALL COPS ARE GUILTY" nonsense.  I was not there.  All I saw was the body camera footage, well the footage that was released.  So for him to have been found guilty there had to be other evidence (or at least we hope so).  It IS Illinois, so you have to hope it was a fair trial, not a sham George Floyd BS trial like Derek Chauvan got, where evidence was concealed, the tox report was hidden, etc, etc just to appease the BLM mob.  

Bad cops exist.  Sure do.  But in a life or death situation, you have literally seconds if that much time to make a life or death decision which is why the Supreme Court tends to fall on the side of reasonable doubt, and demands lower courts give deference to that standard.  If you have never been there, you have no clue how fast things can go south.  

That being said, I have also seen cops escalate a situation to the point where it should never have been escalated to, and force then had to be used.  Been there, and in one case offered to testify for the defense since if this one officer had just left and let the two others handle it, we would have talked the guy into handcuffs instead of having to fight him.  

 

[Murph]

Well, I think we can determine the race of the cops who were arrested.  

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/11/mississippi-law-enforcement-caught-working-cartel-20-officers/

Sheriff Milton Gaston Sr. of Washington County (left) and Sheriff Bruce Williams of Humphreys County (right)

Federal prosecutors have announced the indictment and arrest of 20 individuals, most of them sworn law enforcement officers, in the Mississippi Delta region for allegedly conspiring with Mexican drug cartels to smuggle narcotics into the United States.

U.S. Attorney Clay Joyner for the Northern District of Mississippi made the announcement at a press conference on Thursday.

“We’re here today to talk about some incredibly serious allegations that mark a monumental betrayal of public trust, to announce the indictment and arrest of 20 individuals, most of them law enforcement officers in the Mississippi Delta region. The indictments generally allege the taking of bribes to attempt to aid and abet drug trafficking, as well as associated crimes,” said Joyner.

The announcement detailed the results of a years-long federal investigation and sting operation in the Mississippi Delta region, resulting in the indictment and arrest of 20 individuals, including 14 current or former law enforcement officers and six co-conspirators. 

 

The serious allegations and charges included:

• Accepting bribes: The officers allegedly accepted bribes ranging from $20,000 to $37,000 in exchange for police protection.
• Aiding drug trafficking: The defendants provided armed escort services for what they believed were large quantities of illegal drugs for people they believed were drug traffickers (who were actually undercover FBI agents).
• Conspiracy: The scheme involved a network of corruption that extended across multiple counties in Mississippi and into Tennessee. 

“The indictments generally allege the taking of bribes to attempt to aid and abet drug trafficking, as well as associated crimes,” Joyner added.

[Ivanhoe]

Another low-IQ cop doing what low-IQ cops do;

 

IMHO, cop should do a minimum of 5 in medium security for obstruction of justice. 

[Ivanhoe]

https://reason.com/2025/11/17/missouri-town-will-pay-500k-to-settle-lawsuit-over-deputy-shooting-blind-and-deaf-dog/
 

Quote

 

A small Missouri town will pay $500,000 to settle a lawsuit filed by a man whose 13-pound blind and deaf shih tzu dog was shot and killed by a police officer. It is one of the largest settlements of its kind, an animal rights group says.

Nicholas Hunter filed a lawsuit last year against the City of Sturgeon, Missouri, and former Sturgeon police officer Myron Woodson, alleging his Fourth Amendment rights were violated when Woodson killed his dog Teddy shortly after finding it wandering in a neighbor's yard on May 19, 2024.

 

 

Quote

Teddy's shooting was a particularly egregious example of a common phenomena: police needlessly shooting family dogs. (There have been so many cases over the years that we have a "puppycide" tag for stories on the Reason website.) No one knows exactly how many dogs police shoot around the country, but every year, there are more cases of wanton killings that, besides terrorizing owners, generate huge lawsuits, viral outrage, and sometimes result in officers being fired or facing trial, such as in the case of a New Orleans officer who shot and killed a puppy.

 

Quote

But when the local news outlet ABC 17 obtained Woodson's body camera footage, it showed that Teddy was never aggressive and didn't bark or growl. Woodson tried to lasso Teddy with a catch pole—a common tool used in animal control—but the dog simply shook its head free of the rope and trotted away. After fumbling the catch pole several times, Woodson drew his gun and killed Teddy. ABC 17 reported that Woodson's entire encounter with Teddy, from exiting his car to putting two bullets in the animal, lasted three minutes and six seconds.

 

Quote

In a deposition, Woodson testified that he destroyed the animal because "I believed the dog was seriously injured and suffering."

I hate to think of what cops would do to a senile old man. 3 bullets?

 

 

[Ivanhoe]

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/restraint-technique-supposedly-killed-george-floyd-was-part-officer-training
 

Quote

 

Derek Chauvin's defense attorneys have filed a new petition that challenges the 2021 murder conviction that sent Chauvin to prison over George Floyd's death. The petition includes over 50 former and current MPD officers who made sworn declarations that the technique Chauvin used to restrain George Floyd was part of the official training they received.

The 71-page petition was sent to Hennepin County District Court, where Attorney Greg Joseph stated that “this case simply never made sense."  The petition asserts that the case involves two key issues: intent and causation. Did the restraint of Floyd follow policies and procedures of the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD); and, did the restraint cause Floyd's death

 

 

Quote

 

In seeking to vacate Chauvin’s conviction, or obtain a new trial, the petition argues that Chauvin “was deprived of his right to due process under the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article I of the Minnesota Constitution.” 

In speaking about the prosecution - and what he believes was the false testimony of MPD Inspector Katie Blackwell, Chief Medaria Arradondo, and others during Chauvin’s trial - Joseph told Alpha News, “you can only run from the truth for so long.” 

 

 

About time. Blackwell et al should be the ones in prison.

 

[Mr King]

Quote

Atlanta Police officer tortured her Labrador dog by breaking her bones, disfiguring her spleen before killing her: indictment

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/atlanta-police-officer-tortured-her-labrador-dog-breaking-her-bones-disfiguring-her-spleen-before-killing-her/85-f0fa377b-b549-4c78-bfdc-2644fbbaf2ae

[NickM]

Just now, Mr King said:

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/atlanta-police-officer-tortured-her-labrador-dog-breaking-her-bones-disfiguring-her-spleen-before-killing-her/85-f0fa377b-b549-4c78-bfdc-2644fbbaf2ae

DEI 13%er hire tortures dogs--what a surprise. 

[Ivanhoe]

Skip ahead to 10:00;

All LEOs in this case should spend a year on a chain gang to help them develop some semblance of competence and integrity.

Kudos to the prosecutors' office for doing the PD's job, i.e. due diligence.